My evening with Commodore USA, LLC

[commodorejohn]

Hmm, interesting. While I retain my dour view of putting a PC in a pretty case and calling it an Amiga, it's at least good to hear some evidence for this being an honest-to-God project and not a fly-by-night operation. I'd rather find someone to be a misguided honest man than a huckster operating under the guise of things I'd actually like to see.

[commodorejohn]

They have a legal right to use it as they see fit. They hold a license and despite threats, there has been no legal action by Hyperion.

As more than a few of us have been pointing out since the start of this whole affair, our objections aren't to the legality of the thing. I haven't given a crap about who owns the Amiga name since I first got into the Amiga; what I care about is how I see it being applied. It might be legal for C-USA to call a PC in a fancy case an "Amiga," but that doesn't make people's objections that it has nothing to do with the Amiga any less worthy of consideration.

And given that C-USA is using names closer to the actual original Amiga than any "next-gen" company so far ("1000x" and so on, which they haven't even updated on their site from just plain "1000," where other companies have at least done stuff like "AmigaOne,") it'd be nice to see even some kind of acknowledgement for that.

This is his passion, this has capture his interest and he can throw himself into it with out the worry of losing everything.  His pockets run that deep as his connections run extremely deep world wide.   Barry is a different animal then what we have seen since the days of Jack Tramiel.

This is interesting to hear, but if he's really all that and a bag of chips, I wish he'd put his weight behind something more original. There's still ground to be broken and niches to be carved out in the computer industry, and if Barry is really as good a businessman as some are making him out to be, he could probably do as well or better with a new product instead of a gussied-up old one. It's an interesting comparison to Tramiel, because he wasn't one to just sit on his laurels and copy the competition's homework. Hell, he was already up and gone by the time Commodore released its first PC compatible. Would that Barry took more of a lesson from that.

[commodorejohn]

I think objections have been noted, your opinion has been considered.

Well, except for all the people still repeating the "they have a license!" mantra, yes...

Fine it doesn't have anything to do with Amiga, so freaking what, nothing since 1994 really has a direct link to Amiga anyway.

Not really true, since even OS4 has some basis in the original Amiga, to say nothing of other, more directly-related projects, but even if it were: that makes this okay how?

Something truly totally original has no market. And very little chance to be sold for any kind of a reasonable price.  That is were Natami and all the others are going, there is no bussiness sense in that.

Bullshit. Good products can create their own niche, and while it's certainly difficult to get a new system off the ground, it's probably no more so than creating a market for something that's just "exactly what the competition offers, but in a different case!"

Seriously, those of you with moral, ethical, whatever obejections to this need to get over it. It doesn't appeal to you fine, don't buy it. It is legal, it is going forward, and there are people interest in it. We don't care if it is a real resurrection of the "amiga" whatever you consider that to be.

I'll stop objecting to it when it stops being objectionable, thank you.

[commodorejohn]

You are a waster and this nonsense is disgusting. Trashng a company that is legally starting a retro based company.

If they were just promoting themselves as a "retro-based company," that wouldn't be a problem, but they're not - they're promoting themselves as Commodore and touting an Amiga product line. Their whole site is based around this assumed identity. I don't want to jump to the conclusion that they're trying to mislead people, but it's difficult, considering how much their site tries to position them as The New Commodore. The only thing that could even be considered Commodore-related about this whole affair, aside from the C-64x's reproduction case, is the inclusion of emulators, which aren't even theirs. It's like some people here are so desperate for anything that has the "Amiga" name on it that they'll willfully blind themselves to the fact that there is no significant difference between this and any other PC that's had an emulator installed on it.

While I don't agree with Darrin's "evil" rhetoric, I think he's onto something with the idea of differentiated product lines providing some actual support for those of us in the community who see the Amiga brand as something more than just a sticker to be slapped onto whatever's selling well. Instead, C-USA seems to be completely in the dark about this, and its supporters actively hostile to anybody with a different view.

[commodorejohn]

Your business model looks fine but who cares you aren't a entrepenuer with money to spend on CUSA, Barry is.

So that makes his opinion invalid? Is that what this comes down to, money? 'Cause people who will take anything from anybody as long as they bring the cash, there's a word for them...

[commodorejohn]

Why should they provide a differetiated product line? Hyperion etc. haven't, Cloanto doesnt. OS4 is for PPC only, Aros is open source and can be ported to different archs but x86 is the main one.

And when have Hyperion, Cloanto, or A-Eon been held up as exemplary niche computer businesses, exactly? Providing a differentiated product line could give C-USA the opportuntity to do something that they don't: serve more than one segment of the market. There are people here who would be happy to run Linux with an emulator on an x86 box, and more power to them (and to C-USA, if they're just serving that need and not trying to promote themselves as the True Successor.) But there are also a lot of people who'd like to see something else that's closer to the original Amiga, and their options are woefully limited. If Barry is such a successful businessman, he might have the potential to see through some of these community projects to completion and make them available to all the people who want them, not just the few that get their hands on developer prototypes and testing boards while waiting for the real thing to finally be available.

Or, you know, he could follow your example, shrug his shoulders, say "x86 wins, why bother, nothing good ever came of doing something different," and go with what everybody else does.

[commodorejohn]

Trying to offer a differentiated product line is also a great way to ensure you never get off the ground. It takes a lot of money to do this stuff. He should focus on what has the best chances right now.

This is true, and it may well be that an x86 system is the best way to get started. I'd certainly be more than happy to wait and give them a chance to get into the swing of things before pursuing more exotic options; the problem is, it doesn't seem like they have any intention of doing so, or indeed that they're aware of any of the segments of the Amiga community at all. That may change (I certainly hope it does,) but so far it doesn't look like it.

[commodorejohn]

@ Those arguing it's not an Amiga

Two cavemen sitting in a cave, one next to a fire, keeping warm, while the other sits in the distance complaining that THIS fire didn't come from the lightning bolt that created the First Fire.

Does it really matter where it came from as long as it keeps you warm?

Two cavemen sitting in a cave, one next to a fire, keeping warm, while the other scrapes gunk off an animal hide, wraps it around himself, and calls it "fire." "This is a fire, rock-for-brain!" the first caveman proclaims. "That's a blanket."

Names matter when they indicate substantially different things.

[commodorejohn]

Maybe they should invent a time machine? Or Warp drive? because that's as realistic as your proposal(PS3 boards or Natami).

It's a pity you weren't around during the microcomputer boom, Wolfy - I'm sure you'd have talked them out of all that senseless innovating in no time flat :/

[commodorejohn]

an up to date Amiga OS would need billions to make commercially successful... It is as viable as is space elevator.

You say that about anything that isn't "build an x86 system and put Linux on it." Is there some kind of secret tax the rest of us don't know about on computers running something other than Linux or Windows?

[commodorejohn]

Workbench X will be a Amiga OS. It will run on Amigas and it will be produced by Commodore. Thus, it becomes an Amiga OS. Your argument that it will not be related to any of the current amiga like OSes is valid.

It is indeed valid, although I suspect that was a typo on your part ;P Simply sticking a name on something doesn't make it a different thing.

[commodorejohn]

Citation needed.

What do you mean? Wolftothemoon said it, so it must be true! He even talked about all the things you'd need to do and made up some numbers to go with them!

[commodorejohn]

Unless of course they are planning to revive it with a modern Amigaoid OS, then the emulator/sandbox is for backward capability for the original OS. So far, all you have seen is the C64x and the Vic series but you want to point to the C64x/Vic as the new Amiga, which it isn't.

Yes, well, until they actually release some real information (any month now, right? Right?) I'd say that it's a reasonable inference. That's what I was really hoping to get out of this, some concrete information on what they want to do with the Amiga and how they plan to do it, not Barry's life story and a list of his business achievements that reads like a Victorian mother pitching an arranged marriage to her kid. "Yes, it's a sensible match, dear, you couldn't do any better! He's experienced, he's built a successful company...what? Well, no, he's not interested in you per se, in fact, I hear of a young lass by the name of Intel he fancies, but money like his'll take care of you in your old age..."

[commodorejohn]

Why does it have to be innovative? I understand some people only want it to be innovative to honour the memory of old Commodore and the Amiga. You can do that without innovation by making sure the brand at least survives, think of it as selling Commodore branded PCs. Does that make you feel better?

No. No it does not. As I've said before, if there's truly nothing about the real Amiga that they feel is worth salvaging, they should let it die peacefully. And "think of it as selling Commodore branded PCs?" No! If they are naming something "Amiga," they had damn well be delivering something Amiga-like, and I'm not going to just sit back and pretend they're making smaller claims that could be said to be in line with the facts just because people want this to be real. To keep going with my "Victorian mother" analogy, advising us to "lie back and think of Commodore" isn't going to make the proceedings any more satisfying.

I moved onto the no longer grey box PC and that fondness for the custom hardware faded a long time ago and based on a recent poll "would you buy an X1000" it did a long time ago for a lot of other people. If you can't sell it to the die-hards here who can you sell it to?

Except the X1000 does have a following, even if it's one I can't personally fathom, and it is only one hardware-revival project among several. There is still an opportunity to build a successful next-gen Amiga-like hardware platform, unless you're one of the people here for whom "success" is defined as "storm the market and destroy all competitors forever, no exceptions."

[commodorejohn]

Does this look like slapping a glue-on Commodore badge to a PC?

Nope. Looks like slapping a screw-on Commodore case to a PC.