Java

[filson]

who here really needs a Java VM? (not a rhetorical question, I'm interested to know if anyone actually uses/needs it on a semi-regular basis)

an honest question. I do. My dayly livings are earned by programming Java. Some might say that all they need is C/C++, well... Maybe thats because thats all they know?!

Java is immencely powerfull for midsize to very large applications. C is also good but if you just need a small program then you should use Ruby and if you need a very large program you should use Java. C's only real benefit is its runtime speed. It is most certainly not fast for coding or debugging.

And for those small things like render loops or the like that needs very fast code, you can embed assembler or C or whatever you like in Java aswell.

So if Amiga ever dreams about entering the enterprices sectors and become more than a geek platform (sorry fellas  :-D ) then we need Java, and that sooner than later. Allans ideas about serverfarms of Amigas aren't realy going to happen without Java.

[filson]

And it would be nice to actually see a Java app that doesn't suck performancewise (well, more GUI responsiveness rather than 'performance', but they're kind of the same bag).

He he. Half of the performance hit is from translating the bytecode. This part is very much improved if you use Java 1.4.x and even more so if you use the -server flag. The client was made for applets and small apps that needed fast loads, so that was what they got. If you turn on -server you get all sorts of runtime optimizations like method inlining and a vastly improved garbage collector.
The server version can give you everything from slower speeds till a 100% boost depending on the code.

The other half is because people get class/thread happy and they don't use "final" (alows the runtime optimizations) stuff. They blow their code out the window that way. I do a lot of MySQL stuff and you don't get C code that beats Java in performance in that area.

Remember that the SUN version of Java for SPARC is much faster than the x86 version. Thats simply because it is possible to tweak your runtime to every single hardware feature your platform can support.

Don't judge Java on some annoying 1.1 applet you saw on Geocities.

Oh, and it would be mighty kewl to see "Powered by/Hosted on Amiga" on websites. That only takes the Apache Tomcat webserver and a Java runtime.
Plus, you get to fart in microsofts direction  :-D  :-D

[filson]

erhm... don't we already have a c/c++ compiler ?
if not how do they get the stuff done?

Javac is naturaly part of the JDK. but its 400KB of code compared to 100MB. Javah (jni) is even smaller ...

[filson]

@mikeymike

*lol* I use tomcat and eclipse everyday. Besides I program for a proprietary web engine (something like php/jsp) in Java. And I'm preparing releases for the demo scene in Java aswell.

does that count as using java ?  :-P

[filson]

@DaveP

and we don't think you are essential  :-D  :-D  :-D
sorry. ;-)

[filson]

On a serious note, if we don't make a port or get some kaffe running for AOS 4, how are the Amiga going to enter the Enterprise sector where buying 200 machines is just a signature away?

Perhaps you all can enlighten me on this? I doubt maya/3dmax will be very willing to port their stuff and SAP/R4 allready runs very nicely with Java, not to mention that ensurance companies seem to like it alot too.

[filson]

It touches my heart to see that someone realy think about what will help the Amiga now and later.  :-D  :-D