Is the Cloud overrated?

[Hell Labs]

The cloud is a ********* stupid idea. Lets look at how computing worked, circa 1975:

everyone had a terminal. It had a green or amber screen, it went "beep" and you could watch the letters draw on the screen in real time. The actual computer was in the basement. Everything was at the mercy of this one computer, and if it went down, you were screwed.

So, now the personal computer is here, and internet. Everyone has a nicely powerful machine at home, they can do all their work, play games, etc lightning fast. They want to share something? Internet. Internet is awesome, if a server goes down somewhere in it, the rest is unaffected. It's impossible for it to go down because its completely decentralised.

So, for some reason, everyone wants to go back to mainframes+terminals, where nothing is really yours, the latency is horrible (goodbye, gaming), the computer can go down, and everyone is fucked, etc. Sure, there's colour screens. OTHER THAN THAT, IT IS THE SAME.

Anyone who seriously wants cloud computing should drown themselves. I mean, really.

[Hell Labs]

Yeah, it's like this newfangled web thing, highly over-rated, neither of them will amount to anything....

The cloud is literally the opposite of the internet, and is a move backwards.

Right now, we have a completely decentralised system, where every part plays an equal role. Because of this, it is indestructable, and uncontrolable, and largely a free for all. It's fast, easy, flexable, and efficient.

What we had in the 70s, was a system where everything was done on one machine, and piped out to the end users. This is incedibly slow and laggy, and prone to failure. It is easy to restrict, fragile, ineficient, and at there mercy of whoever was in charge.

Why on earth is the 70s model somehow considered a replacement for the tradition home computer+ internet? It makes no sense for the end user. In fact, it's pretty obvious this is being pushed as a method of controlling how people use computers. Wouldn't it be great, if the owner of the "cloud" you use, decides to check what everyone's got on there? can't prove that .mp3 is licenced? Fine, just buy it from the iTunes store else it won't play. Sorry, we "don't have a system to verify licencing from audio CDs, or other obsolite formats right now". Want to install peice of software n? Pay to rent it instead, we can't allow you to put anything "dirty" into the system like that.

Cloud computing is not a good thing. Luckily, it will fail.

[Hell Labs]

I would be very highly surprised if Apple still have their own operating system in 10 years, let alone 15.

You do realise apple have done nothing but gained OS marketshare since 1998, right? Windows is leaking 1.5% a year currently. What do you have to base your rediculous prediction?

these big companies want to control everything.  every scrap of data on your machine every program you use, everything.

Some of them.

Microsoft with os and apps,

Maybe, but not with the "cloud" model. Conflict of interests.

valve with steam and game control updates

You mean steam, the system where you buy a game, and own it for ever? (you lose a game CD it's gone for ever. delete a steam game? click install again) Where you can install on as many machines as you like, on any OS (soon), and just log in to play? Where updates are regulary relased to add content and features? That's not control, it's convenience.

etc. apple with content etc.

You mean like the DRM they fought the record compaines to have removed?

i think this is one of the reasons gaming on the pc has lost out to  consoles. you cant get a game toss it in and play like a console and you  cant install and play like before, you have to install and register,  and update and update and update. they strangled the life out of the  platform.

No, pc gaming hasn't lost. it always has, and always will be a higher priced niche.

"register"? So, a GFWL account (which is bad, GFWL is intrusive and sucks), and a steam account. you register twice, and that covers every single PC game released today. Some use one, some use the other. A few use both. Not hard.

"update and update and update."? Lol. What a weird complaint. Let's look at TF2, the most updated game I own. twice a month or so, a small patch is released that fixes explots and adds minor features, and takes literally 5 seconds to automatically download and install. It even happens while you play, and you exit the game to see a changelog window. Every three months, a "big" patch With new weapons, items, hats, maps, music, etc comes out. Maybe a ten minuite download and can also happen while playing. It's completely transparent to the user.

"they strangled the life out of the  platform." Oh god, that hurt my head. Steam is an infinite improvement over going to a game shop, and using physical media. You can't lose a steam game or damage it. Plus it actually stops hacking shitheads from ruining mp.

some people use computers for online stuff, facebook etc. and for them  with a fast connection cloud is fine. even some apps like office and  others work ok with a cloud computing setup.

Nah. When google's "cloud" equivalent of wordpad runs badly on a 2ghz AMD whatever-it-was, it sucks.  

i saw a show about startrek once that said it was unrealistic because  noone uses centralized computing anymore but it looks like we might be  moving back to that.

No, we won't. most will not buy anything that is "different".

[Hell Labs]

Apple isn't interested in fostering an open and free computing environment. Everything they've done the past 8 years has been in the direction of a managed environment with toll booths all over the place. INSERT COIN

Over half of their operating system is open sourced. The commerical product itself, OSX, doesn't have any kind of licencing scheme or copy protection whatsoever. it's £25 and installs on commodity intel pcs if you use the right boot disc first.

Unless this is some kind of weird nonesensical dig at iTunes, where you PAY for a PRODUCT. Or the iPhone, where you can install anything you want that isn't iilegal or bypasses the OS in some way.

At any rate, your post neither makes a relevent point, or any logical sense at all.

[Hell Labs]

You're 19.  You didn't have jack in the 70s. You weren't even a twinkle in your dads eye.  You don't even know what you're talking about.  I think YOU should drown yourself.  Or at least stay off of Wikipedia.

Do you have anything valid to say? Before the personal computer, what were people doing their computing on? Exactly. In fact, a system like that was still installed at my local library until about 2005. I used it a lot. It beeped when you pressed the enter key, and you could watch the cursor move as the screen redrew.

No, its not half open source.  Its based on the MACH kernel, which is indeed open source as it's part of MINIX.  Parts of BSD were mixed in to keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS and maintain BSD-friendliness.  This is not over half of the OS.  

Mach/bsd hybrid kernel, named xnu. Try to keep up. And why would using BSD "keep with the spirit of previous Mac OS"? Have you used The old mac os? It's the anti-unix.

Yes there are PARTS which are open source (the stuff that is BSD friendly, mostly) as that goes with the Unix territory, but saying over half the OS is open source is plain dense.  

I can download darwin, the open source parts of OSX, put the disc in, and boot to a shell (I think it's bash, not used it in a while). The argument could be made that it's an entire open source operating system.

The rest of it is filled with Nextstep.  Do you know what that is?  I doubt it.  Because if you did, you wouldn't be spewing your nonsense.

Given that I've got NS 3.3 running here in a virtual machine, admiring the total lack of software, I should hope so. It's funny how they developed doom on this, but it's not even complete.

You don't seem to aware that NeXTSTEP was also xnu kernal+bsd userland based. The biggest change between that and osx 10.0 was the display system.

PS: That was for hijacking my thread on 1084s, AND for being numb.

Cry more.

No copy protection, but there most definitely is  licensing.

Sure, it's easy to install it on ten machines, doesn't mean you're  allowed to though.

Not enforced.

Look up Windows Azure, hint, it's cloud computing  by Microsoft, and apparently businesses are buying it.

At least check some facts before you post, otherwise you're typing all  that garbage for nothing.

They're not pushing it. Microsoft right now are actually advertising  windows, so I guess the reinforces the idea that they don't really care  about it. The fact microsoft has to advertise is kind of weird though.  Are they scared or something?

[Hell Labs]

I just think its hilarious when a 19 year old talks about what was going on in the 70s.  I dont care if your library had one.  So did mine.  Its not nearly enough proof of how things worked in the 70s.  Do you think all computer setups in the 70s beeped alot, and drew text to screen slowly?  Is that all you think they did?

No, some of them printed text out on paper slowly instead.

Get back to me when you know what it's like to not have a home computer, and you have to go into a lab, dial into a server (like a VAX), and work that way for hours to get things done.  command line only.  No windows.  

 
I pretty clearly have command line experiance, what with me already having mentioned using st.helens' council 1985 Amdahl (I checked, the entire town was run on it, not just our libraries). That was the only system outside of school I could use untill I got a PC in 2004. The school computers untill 2005 were also BBC Micro model Bs, when we were given hand-me-down dells with NT4. (The BBCs are currently in the tech's shed at home. I never got around to asking for one off him). So, if I was using a computer out of school, it was z/os for me. They had it set up with a menu for word processing, checking what books were in, and a third option for local goverment (council) use that needed a password. At any rate I first used a GUI in about 2003, if the playstation mouse counts.

..you THINK its bash?  All of this wikipedia slinging, and you THINK thats what it is?  Lol. If you want to argue that darwin is an entire OS, go on ahead.  I'll be the guy in the back of the room doing this: :laughing:

I think that's what it is, but i'm not sure. I've not used it in a while (no need). No wikipedia usage at any point in this argument; but given that you're accusing me of this, I'm guessing you're guilty?

So what, you went on the google-machine and downloaded NS.  Whoopeedoooo.  Do you know what it is?  How its put together?  It closed source.  It stops being LOLOPENSOURCE after the mach/bsd based part.

No, I went to the ebay machine and bought a nextstep 3.3 386/68k install disc. Took a while to buff away the scratches.

Just because two cars have the same engine, doesn't make them the same car.

No, but it does make them easier to find parts on, and doesn't take as long to get used to working on the other.

Meaning, lets say you are a dodge charger and im a dodge dart.   We both have 318's in us.

If you (and I stress the IF) become some engine expert with 318s and then walk up to my car, try to pop the hood and go WHAT, ITS THE SAME ENGINE, LET ME GET IN THERE AND DO STUFF.

So, were cars, not people. Then suddenly we become people who own cars? Not following you.

I will slam the hood down on your face and go ITS CLOSED SOURCE, GO AWAY NOW. :afro:    

Drunken analogies: Bad idea.

You can stop trying to be different and "more informed" now and say mach kernel based like the rest of the world.   If you think the biggest change was the display system, again, I am Mr.Hands.

.  

The kernel is XNU. Forked from Mach, uses a lot of BSD code in there. They are not the same.

Why don't you leave comments like that for people who know stuff.

Well I do, and you don't.

lrn2forum.

gb2gbs

[Hell Labs]

I'd be more impressed if you knew what the "gbs" part was, and why it's significant.

[Hell Labs]

Youre 19. most of your early computer use experience is pretty useless and of no real consequence.

You're posting this on a forum where people play with old computers. Think for a second here. Is ECS curing cancer?

Oh, Mr. KnowItAll McUsedOldSystemsInHisYouthAndIsOfficiallyTheTerminalMasterBecauseOfIt cant remember something like BASH? I Just find that fact quoting people usually just wikipedia everything and start flinging facts around like it makes their credibility 100%.

What's your point? I've used bash before, a while ago. Not exactly bragging here, just a statement of facts.

Oh look at me I buffed a disc.  I'm the sovereign lord of the computarz. :lol:  Any more irrelevant bits of info that you think separate you from the pack!?  LOOK OUT WORLD, HellLabs buffed out a CD-ROM!  HES UNLEASHED THE TRUE POWER.

Okay, you don't have a point.

It helps to read the entire analogy before responding, instead of breaking it into sections and commenting on them.

Well, your analogy was completely broken. first, "we are cars", then we start opeing bonnets of cars we own? What the **** happened in your english class?

again: I'm sorry Jesus *pumps dick*

Let me dumb it down for you, sport:  Just because 2 things use the same core and one is open sourced, doesn't mean they both are.  The freedom of one doesnt always translate 1:1 to the other.  OSX has plenty of non open source (>50%) stuff, which really makes it what it is.  That is the root of the discussion.  You claiming over half the OS is open sauce.  Its not.  Its very closed sauce.  omfgbbq1337sauce to be exact.

You see that word BASED, that has been used a few times now?   That implies they're not the same but are related.  Again, thanks for the redundancy.  It appears were all on the same page, yet you think youre a page ahead of us.

Well use the right name then.

Please.  You'd be wise to not even bother going there. That kind of stupidity never ends well.

If your handlers were smart, you'd have no keyboard.

funny, thats what I was sayin' when you started waving your tard-fu around in my monitor thread, and probably what people are saying about you in this thread about CLOUD .   It wasn't an open invitation for your know it all penis waving

Haha, you're still butthurt about me asking a question about a monitor, in a thread about that monitor?.