Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Where to find Birdie?  (Read 18028 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Where to find Birdie?
« on: January 11, 2010, 11:11:30 PM »
Hey does anyone know where to download birdie from? Aminet doesn't seem to have it. The 1990 look is great for saving memory, But i've got 2560MB of it.

Throw me a frickin bone here.*





*I'd put a picture of Dr.Evil here but imageshack has a new front page and doesn't actually work now.

EDIT: Found it now. It seems AWeb was having a "little moment". Or it was a spelling error.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2010, 11:29:23 PM by Hell Labs »
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2010, 11:30:15 PM »
EDIT: Anyone know how to get rid of the Annoying Birdie splash screen? And why it doesn't apply anything after reboot until I go into the prefs and click save? It keeps saying "No birdie process found!" when just a second ago I was getting annoyed by the splash screen.


I think i'm getting the appeal of the amiga. It's like being handed the slowest, stripped out car imaginable that only just has enough parts to drive, as well as a few hundred boxes of stuff to bolt on with less instructions included than most stuff from IKEA.

EDIT2: And it turns out the correct answer was "read the guide". There we go!

EDIT3: And now it doesn't show the splash screen, nor work properly unless I open the prefs and click save.

Help?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 01:55:37 AM by Hell Labs »
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 02:31:50 AM »
Okay all this User-startup shit is getting on my nerves. It's like they saw how the Classic mac os's "startup programs", "Extensions" and "Control panel" Autodetect each boot and thought : "That's a great idea!, lets do something worse!" Why the Hell should I have to tell the OS in a text file where a program is? Why can it go in WBStartup? Why do I have to point Birdie in the direction if it's own god damned prefs file, (Even though logically it should already know where it is!) when it doesn't work without me doing it in the Prefs panel every boot anyway? Why Doesn't the prefs panel come with berdie anyway? Why doesn't it have an installer? Why is customizing AmigaOS ten times worse than doing it to the old Mac OS? Why is it worse than doing it to LINUX?:madashell:

I think commodore actually hated their customers. I Mean, they must have had to go out of their way to make it so hard, or just not bothered making it nice to use anyway. Probably explains why there's So many gui toolkits, for one.


In OS 9, I kid you not, you'd either run the installer, or put an extension in the "extensions" folder, and a control panel in the "control panels" folder, reboot and it (kaleidoscope, the OS 9 equivalent of Birdie and MUI and the icon programs combined and ten times better) worked. Instantly. No faffing about with text files, nothing. Commodore had a year on them and couldn't get it right, and Apple didn't even bother with Multitasking or even COLOUR.



I'm going to bed, I've had enough of this for today.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 01:17:34 PM »
Quote from: arnljot;537801
Birdie was made by Trond Werner Hansen, a norwegian Amiga user. Not by Commodore. It's an unofficial hack to make the WB nicer. It does a lot of things that it shouldn't... :-)

I know It wasn't made by Commodore. I'm just saying C's Design choices here have made it harder than it needs to be.

Quote from: arnljot;537801
The reason for Startup-Sequence, User-Startup and WBStartup is that some programs are supposed to run before LoadWB. Programs like Birdie which hacks the way windows are drawn.

I'm really not used to this. My mac always knows it has to load up every patch/hack/whatever in the extensions folder. To stop it loading a certain one you just take it out that folder. Nice, clean, simple, all loads before Finder opens. Want a program to open after the Finder desktop? there's a folder for that too. It's nice, no effort required, universal on the classic os.

Going back to ms dos-style config files feels like I've had my bed taken off me by a strange man, who then hands over a stone knife, points in the direction of a bear, and says "It's simple, isn't it!"

Quote from: arnljot;537801
User-Startup is pretty safe to toy around with, Startup-Sequence is lower level, still pretty safe if you take the appropriate precautions, but still - warranty void if you toy with it :-)

Now, take a deep breathe, read up on the manual to birdie and other patches you might have running. Birdie is a strange bird which isn't too happy if you crowd it.

I did everything the manual said... Unless I missed something because I was tired.


Round 2:

Quote from: fishy_fiz;537756
Do you have it added to your startup-sequence/user-startup ? It needs to be there (and placed correctly) with correct arguements following, otherwise you'll need to manually launch it everytime. By the way if you're an rtg system with '060 (or higher speed(ie. emulated)) I recommend using AFA_OS instead. It's skinning system is more flexible and it also adds other functionality too (anti aliased fonts, 32bit png icons, faster icons, zune, etc.).

Yeah it's in my user-startup. I'm going to have a look at AFA_OS then, good idea.

Quote from: fishy_fiz;537756
p.s. Startup sequence and user startup rock. You just need to understand amigaos a little to use it properly. Also, WBStartup is handy, but not half as flexible. Birdie is a command line program, thats why you need to add arguements and why you cant just place it in WBStartup.

I suppose they might be useful If you're used to them. I don't see the need when there could just be a folder called "put stuff in there if you want to load it before the workbench" And Birdie being a command line program seems a very strange choice.


 
Quote from: fishy_fiz;537756
Startup-sequence and user-startup are very simple and easy to use, no other system lets you so easily customise your system. And for the record, yes even Mac OS, etc need to be told where everything is, it just hide it from the user unless they care to look for it.

Easy to use if you've been using it for a long time. And the only time I know of where MACOS is like you described is when you move a system folder, unless you're talking about X is which case that doesn't count.

Quote from: fishy_fiz;537756
Personally I like having complete control over my computer and not have it assume Im stupid.

Personally I like having my computer do things that are common sense, and not need spoon feeding the simplest of things. I HAVE to assume the amiga is stupid, unless I want it to destroy all of my things and set fire to the carpet in the style of the chuckle brothers.

Quote from: fishy_fiz;537756
As for birdie if you want your arguements for birdie, just check open up the birdie file in env and it'll give them to you. Basically though its a 3rd party system hack, if you want to use things like that then you need to learn AmigaOS a little. Whinging because of your lack of knowledge isnt the best way to get help.

Oh i'm not whinging because of a lack of knowledge. I'm whinging because a system as advanced as the amiga was definitely has some outdated ideas.

I'm goinna have a look at AFA_OS then.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 01:30:56 PM by Hell Labs »
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2010, 03:32:32 PM »
Quote from: 0amigan0;537846
It's a well-known fact the Lam-intosh is made for losers. :)

One of Microsoft's next tv-advertising should be like this: a group of mentally-handicapped people going around to shop for a computer system. Eventually they'll find a computer that best suits them, a Macintosh. Then the slogan catch-phrase appears on screen, "Winners don't use the macintosh" ! That ad would surely be effective. :)

So you just admitted the old mac os handles this better, while trying to insult me at the same time. That deserves another star trek facepalm to me.

I've got AFA_OS installed now, but I think I preferred the way birdie made it look. I think I'll have another go with that then.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2010, 04:55:21 PM »
Quote from: AeroMan;537861
I like the way older Macs did this. Directly and simple. The Amiga way is also nice, you just need to go low level if you really need, and it is easy to deal with the startup-sequence and other text files that are used.
You can follow MS guys and use the registry, deal with junk left there by uninstalled programs, play "guess where my dll is?", "why my computer is sooo sloooow?", "let´s reinstall it this week"  and other nice games for winners :D

Anything is better than the way windows does stuff. Somehow I'm using 150gb hard disk space, even though this same machine, with the same documents, used about 20gb under XP.:confused: IS technology going backwards? I think a downgrade is in order.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 06:08:33 PM »
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;537996
It is outdated.  The basic WB 3.x hasn't really been updated since it came out in 1992-ish.  There is 3.5 and 3.9 but those weren't really OS updates as mush as they were packaged "free commoditues/hacks".  

Comparing it to Mac OS 9 isn't really fair.  When 3.x came out the Amiga had only existed for 7 years.  Mac OS 9 came out nearly 8 YEARS after 3.x.  

Let's compare it to system 7 then, from the same time: still true.

Quote from: AmigaHeretic;537996
That's exactly how AmigaOS works!  It's called the WBStartup folder (Workbench Startup)

Put stuff in there and it starts.  Take it out and it doesn't start!

WBStartup is not the same. Extensions are not programs, they are libraries. Birdie designed by a sane person would be a library with a Pref panel to control it.

Quote from: AmigaHeretic;537996
Amiga ALSO gives you the power to do it through User-Startup so you can script your own things.  Maybe you want to make something that does a lot of commands.  
Applescript in the startup programs folder.


Quote from: AmigaHeretic;537996
Sure Birdie has to be added into Startup-Sequence in a non-standard way, but that's because it a HUGE Hack & Patch to the OS.   Normally you wouldn't do it.  You just through it in WBStartup folder like most OS enhancements.

It's not a huge hack. it's a teeny tiny one that just replaces window borders and then buggers off for a drink. Kalidoscope is from the system 7 era, replaces the entire interface, and requires no editing of weird text files.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2010, 06:33:03 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;538094
If you dislike AmigaOS so much and think MacOs is so cool, then why are you wasting your time with AmigaOs? Just stick to your Mac, forget the Amiga and be happy :)

I wonder that. I really do. So far, the amiga in a nutshell:

shit, yet fast operating system
nice hardware
price gouged market

fair?
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2010, 07:26:14 PM »
Quote from: StormLord;538097
well... its actually the opposite!!!

great operating system
advanced technological hardware for its age, shitty quality though (and I mean REAL shitty!)
cheapest machine on its age (for its potential, actually there weren't any competitors!)
most expensive price than other obsolete hardware now.

Great as in "it multitasked and could have multiple screens". To be honest it contains no features other than that and would be basically impossible to turn into a modern system.
The Price of amiga stuff now is terrible unless you buy a job lot of stuff, and all those responsible should feel ashamed.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2010, 07:44:25 PM »
Quote from: MskoDestny;538108
I don't think that's terribly fair. Classic Mac OS generally had better usability (though having to manually adjust memory limits for software wasn't so nice....), but was a complete mess architecturally. It was a single tasking OS until System 5 came out in 1987 and multitasking was implemented as an extension until System 7. Even then it was a rather nasty hack that wasn't cleaned up until OS X. Further all file access went through the Finder and the finder could only support a single operation at a time until Mac OS 8.

Ahh, but usability is what the USER sees, and what he or she judges it on. Joe bloggs doesn't know or even care whats behind what he sees on the screen.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2010, 09:08:49 PM »
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;538120
You're negative points are a lot of the exact same reasons we still use Amiga and want to see a modern AmigaOS return ( on reasonable priced hardware)

Amiga == User is in control

Taking the way Amiga starts up for example.   I think it is organize very well.   You have:

2 Text files:
Startup-Sequence - which is mostly OS stuff
User-Startup - which is where more advanced users do whatever startup stuff they want
Folder:
WBStartup - which is where it's more abstracted away so it's just drag and drop


AmigaOS gives you more control MORE easily.  

I don't want a registry where there are litterally MILLIONS of entries for just my OS and the 10 programs I have installed.

MAC isn't much better with it's ".plist" instead of registry spread all over God's green earth:
HD > Library > Preferences
User > Library > Preferences
Library > Application Support
etc, etc, etc....


I want a single user OS where I control things.  I don't want user control crap, if I want to run a virus then I'll damn well run a virus.

You made the Mistake of confusing Mac OS X with anything I would wish on even my greatest enemy. A real Mac OS doesn't have ".plist" files, nor "library" folders.

@outlawal2: Butthurt much?
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2010, 10:17:41 PM »
Quote from: Thorham;538153
If you think AOS is shit then what are you doing here? If it's about the games, then go and play a game and have fun. If it's not about the games, then why do you even bother? If you don't like AOS, then don't use it. No one is forcing you to.


Because when the stars Align right, and I've done all the chants and warmed up the dribbly candles it lets me get some work done.
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2010, 10:21:58 AM »
Quote from: AmigaHeretic;538218
Ha ha!! So you ARE saying you like OS 9!

OS 9 is great if you like RAM limits, 27dot3 filename length limit, something won't work and you get to spend all day disabling and re-enabling your extensions over and over till it magically works again,  right click anybody, making sure each program has enough memory, "out of memory!" notices and the follow-up crashes, it doesn't have a CLI thus effectively condemming it into being a "toy" OS at best, etc, etc, etc.....

You Mac lovers pretend everything is perfect but we all know the truth.   Mac-in-trash!

Ram limits? I've got 512mb in my mac and it runs perfect. Never ran against the file name limit ever, Never had a single extension problem ( but never ran those stupid gimmick ones either), never ran out of memory (virtual memory is your friend), only ever had a crash when trying to run Arkanoid, etc. And why would not having a CLI make it a toy OS? CLIs are completely unnecessary. they are slower than a GUI, more difficult to learn, and usually only ever needed when someone forgets to make a GUI for something. I'd wager that the only time a CLI is useful is Apt-get on linux. Tell me, if OS9 had such a problem with not having a primitive and pointless cli, don't you think they would have added one?
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2010, 01:42:20 PM »
I can't think of a single thing a cli does that a gui can't. And the gui method is much better for actual productivity, you don't have to keep listing crap out and memorising switches. else we'd be using linux with "screen" installed, I mean clis are only good when you don't want a gui taking up resources or there isn't one avalible yet. But I can't be bothered arguing right now.
 
@fishy_fiz: Sorry I never saw your post. But If the offer of help is still on the table then I accept.:)
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.
 

Offline Hell LabsTopic starter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 490
    • Show all replies
Re: Where to find Birdie?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2010, 02:13:47 PM »
Quote from: outlawal2;538270
"But I can't be bothered to argue right now"
 
HaHa, that is laughable. All you have done is jump on here and argue...
GO AWAY friggin Troll Boy.
 
Go away..

THat's not what troll means.
 
Aeroman: I think windows has been doing that for years, I think it's called shared desktop. Though VNC could be used the same way?
A1200 Computer Combat. OS3.0. No accelerator, no fastram, mouse soon. And ebaying it.