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Author Topic: PowerUP vs WarpOS.. what was it all about again?  (Read 14107 times)

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Offline Piru

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Re: PowerUP vs WarpOS.. what was it all about again?
« on: December 15, 2009, 06:01:54 AM »
Quote from: Bamiga2002;533936
Quite a bit is covered here.

And more is covered here.

WarpUP was abandoned later on (obviously because everyone could see it was such a mess to begin with, and no way could be used for any basis of future AmigaOS. Also, for some incomprehensible reason it was mostly written in assembler, thus make it quite impossible to work with). It was never used as any base for future AmigaOS.

On the other hand the concepts and ideas of PowerUP (as laid out in ppc.library) were used as basis when designing MorphOS. The very first MorphOS releases could run old PowerUP apps transparently.

Haage&Partner did more damage than many of you can imagine. In addition to bringing forth WarpUP and concepts within, the also:
- Released AmigaOS 3.5 without promised TCP/IP stack (still advertised to have one!)
- Stole AmiTCP/IP for AmigaOS 3.9
- Mauled Amithlon

Interestingly Haage&Partner's license to develop and distribute AmigaOS is considered "terminated" (page 40).
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 07:36:32 AM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: PowerUP vs WarpOS.. what was it all about again?
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2009, 08:53:03 AM »
Quote from: rvo_nl;534051
I thought of that but I wouldnt believe it. That is so totally against the philosophy of sotfware updates! Do you know what version of warp3d is the latest that 'worked' ?
You wouldn't believe the bugs and mess that was found inside and surrounding Warp3D. Suffice to say, the problems related to Warp3D is the best testament to the code/driver quality. Even the Warp3D examples themselves do countless "illegal" things, such as poking internal Warp3D structures.

Some interesting notes can be found from Goa3D Graphics Library page.

Plans regarding W3D future have changed considerable over the years. Here are some snippets:
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-05-00286-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-11-00209-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2002-09-00214-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2003-11-00058-EN.html
etc.

Interestingly Warp3D was already declared "semi-dead" in 2005 by the developers (post #29) in favor of Mesa. It looks like as if MiniGL would be dead as well.

For 68k the story is even sadder though: You're unlikely to see any more updates to Warp3D. Basically you're left on your own to find out how to get the setup as stable as possible.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 09:32:55 AM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: PowerUP vs WarpOS.. what was it all about again?
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2009, 06:08:42 AM »
Quote
Quote
Conclusion
~~~~~~~~~~

There are no anti-WOS routines in Blizzard PPC flashrom.
There are just bugs in WarpUP and Warp3D and other libraries.
Quote
ppc.library install patch to dos/LoadSeg() function that does
OpenLibrary("ppc.library", x) and does not test for failure.
Seems like there were bugs in PUP as well...

malloc() can return NULL... so can OpenLibrary()...
As I already explain in the document, in this case OpenLibrary() cannot fail. Apparently you missed it, so let me try to explain in in more detail.

ppc.library LIB_OPEN does (roughly):
Code: [Select]
struct Library *lib_open(...)
{
  LibBase->lib.lib_OpenCnt++;
  return &LibBase->lib;
}

Also, the ppc.library LIB_EXPUNGE does:
Code: [Select]
BPTR lib_expunge(...)
{
  return 0;
}

This means that once ppc.library is in memory it
1) cannot be removed
2) OpenLibrary("ppc.library", 0) cannot fail

This in turn means that it is perfectly legal to perform PPCBase = OpenLibrary("ppc.library", 0); inside the library code and expect it to succeed. The library code in question cannot be executing in the first place unless if the library is in memory already.

No bug there. I'm not saying ppc.library would have been 100% bug free, but this is NOT one of the bugs.

The problems only can appear when someone does something as stupid is forcibly remove the library from memory. WarpUP did exactly this. Doing hacks like this can only lead to trouble. The obvious (and 100% system legal) way to handle this is to add a replacement resident tag for the ppc.library which overrides the original library, making sure it never even gets loaded. This is what bppcfix application does. WarpUP coders themselves were just unable to figure such a basic thing out, but instead resorted to unreliable hacks.

When those hacks failed who did they blame? The ppc.library authors.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 07:59:53 AM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: PowerUP vs WarpOS.. what was it all about again?
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2009, 08:05:27 AM »
Quote from: FaLLeNOnE;534179
The ultimate question to all these things would be: Why?
Indeed. PowerUP was perfectly fine (and I don't remember any pauses with it, although I missed the very first versions).

WarpOS didn't provide any real advantage over PowerUP either. It was remarkably similar, only designed badly and implemented shoddily. Any grand ideas Haage&Partner might have had about using WarpOS has a base of a new PPC AmigaOS were just plain laughable. Unfortunately their FUD campaign was quite effective. Some of it can be seen here.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 08:09:25 AM by Piru »
 

Offline Piru

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Re: PowerUP vs WarpOS.. what was it all about again?
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2009, 11:28:39 AM »
Quote from: mousehouse;534195
Not to hijack the thread, small question to the PPC experts ;-)

1) Can I do development of PowerPC apps with SAS/C ? I have the latest version (legal :) !).

There was a SAS/C 7 for PowerUP. It wasn't widely circulated, I think.

There is no support for WarpOS in it.
Quote
2) Should I ditch WarpOS from the system and install the PowerUp! libraries instead?

From purely technical point of view: Yes.
From practical point of view: No (most software is for WOS, unfortunately)