Sonnet crescendo 7200 and OS4.1

[Iggy]

Where did you hear you need to make a donation to get access to ARM builds of AROS?
This idea is absolutely bizarre and completely incorrect.
How did you even come to this baffling conclusion, or who told you and how did they come up with this creative idea?
Want to download AROS for ARM? Simple, go to aros.org and download the latest nightly ARM build. It's as easy as that. No compiling needed, no money needed, just download from the site.

Far from important, but Im somewhat curious where all this garbage misinformation comes from. It's clear as day what the truth is. You just need to check the website.

Gee! No compiling need needed, as long as you use the target platform.
Hallelujah.
In the meanwhile, there are builds on some platforms that require a donation to obtain the latest version.
And other builds that while listed as maintained appear to have not been updated for months (or in  a few cases years).
BUT, a rabid fanboy has to label an inquiry "garbage", rather than civilly offer  assistance.

Way to go fishy.
Your "charm" does wonders toward promoting the adoption of the OS.

[Iggy]

Come on that's a personal attack,  which borders on abuse.

I'm not concerned over childish behavior, kolla and fishy have been rabid fanatics for awhile and when you question their pet project they just get pissy.

I've been using computers since the SWTPC 6800 SS-50 system was introduced, worked with a company that built its own 68000 and 68020 systems up until the '90s, and currently work with friends developing boards that use 6809, 68000, and FPGA components.

Amiga hobbyists hardly concern me, as there's a large percentage of eccentric people in that community.

In the meanwhile, I think lou's discussion has brought up a couple of good ideas.
I'll have to look into the native Pi version of AROS, and a Linux hosted version of AROS for the WiiU ought to be possible.

On the PPC idea, I suppose I could contact Staff Verhagen, if he's still developing. He intermittently get discouraged at the lack of consistent momentum that has always plagued AROS.

But what I won't do is take the negative input from heavy biased hobbyists to heart. Since I'm absolutely sure I have more experience and education than both of them combined.

Lou.... let's see what we can get done.

[Iggy]

I'm currently not doing AROS development but because of the reason you mention here. My interest has just moved to other things, like developing ASICs.

Sorry  Staf, I should not have spoken for you. As to your current interest, I can understand it.
Most of the projects I'm involved with have either CPLD or FPGA components to reduce parts count and provide glue circuitry.
It won't be long before ASIC can be created in relativity low volume affordably.

The last time I'd exchanged messages with you, you still dabbled in development.

Things change, but the AROS community lost some real talent there.

[Iggy]

I am a rabid AROS fanatic now? Wow!

You're a rabid something, I just didn't post a more exact word.

Edit - Eh, that's a childish comment in itself, fug it, let's get back to the topic at hand.

Besides, childish or not, I got to hear from my favorite (former) AROS programmer, and the conversation is for the most part interesting.

[Iggy]

Not in this case, as the file system and everything offered by the host operating system is just so insanely better crafted that what would be if running on "bare metal".

I actually think you've got a valid point.
However the Linux kernel, if used in its entirety, could double the size of the operating system.

Of course it can be slimmed down quite a bit.

[Iggy]

im not sure if i understand you well, but if you are asking for a ppc port of aros, there is one targetting sam computers. it appears to work, there appear to be problems with keyboard (driver) though. it has only been tested under emulation (qemu) lately, which also is at experimental stage for the platform in question. so ist difficult to tell how it behaves on the hardware. so far there has not been anyone interested in testing.

if you ask for aros support for ppc accelerators, i dont think there is actually interest rewarding such an effort. not to mention that this hardware is spectacularly rare.

No, I don't see the point of porting to accelerators.
Broader support of other PPC platforms would be nice.
The SAM460 is a little weak.

But the idea of emulating the SAM460 via qemu still sounds cool.
What is the platform used for the emulation?

[Iggy]

duplicate post, sorry.

[Iggy]

Guys let's keep the tone a bit less hostile, shall we? You're actually making me moderate posts. On a phone. On public transport. This does not make me happy.

Sorry Karlos, I'm trying to take it down a notch. And these guys are providing me some useful information.
I've heard about running a SAM460 emu via qemu, didn't know they'd been trying to run AROS on it.
And I'm unsure why this fork is so underdeveloped.

Sure, X86/X64 offers stronger performance, but PPC provides a unified platform.

In any case, I think I've been on the receiving end more than the delivering end, and I'm willing to endure it if there's still some payback in info gained.

I don't take the :griping: back and forth that seriously.

Just two more weeks! (TM)

If they really do have a beta network driver, then they are down to what just a sound driver?
Can't that be provided via USB?

[Iggy]

anyone who wishes to cotribute support and testing for further ppc platforms, or whatever else platforms, is certainly welcome.



im usually testing it within linux virtual machines on my PCs, simply because i compile everything there, so it is most convenient. last time i tried i had also to compile qemu myself from current source as sam platform support has not been public yet. im not sure if this changed by now.

Very cool development. It should help bridge the gap to X64.
I'm rebuilding my 11,2 Quad G5 and I'd love to work on what lou has suggested (a WiiU port) and on Apple support.
A Quad 2.5 GHz ought to be able to handle SAM460 emulation and still run other virtual machines.
An X5000 emulation would be even better, but who knows what the future will bring.

As to getting started with PPC AROS, right now all I can find are some dated ports.
Is there anything more generic?
I'm fairly certain I can get an older version of GCC running if it's needed.

And I'm trying to decide what video card to run in the 11,2.
I know people that have managed to make Radeon HD 6450 cards function, but I'm open to anything from the R600 up if it helps with video card support.

Even an Apple R500 if necessary (but I'd rather not go that far back).

The WiiU Linux port lou mentioned has a basic framebuffer driver for the video and only one cpu is currently functional, but it looks about as powerful (or more so) as a SAM460.

Anyway, thanks for the encouragement.
Once MorphOS shifts to X64, this could give me something to do with the PPC hardware that could at the very least provide an entertaining diversion.

And the challenge could be fun.

[Iggy]

apparently aros is used for testing, as it runs on that emulation most reliably, in comparison to ng alternatives. it sounds strange but i cannot comment on this, as i have not tested anything else, neither do i intend to.


this is not a fork. ppc platform is built from common source, same as x86, x64, arm or m68k. neither is it "underpowerded". so far as ive been able to test everything worked stale, except i couldnt use keyboard for input, which certainly limits my experience. but i have not noticed any particular problems. admittedly i have not spent much time with it.

Cool, how are endian issues dealt with?

[Iggy]

...what do you mean by generic? target hardware support needs to be implemented it wont happen magically. if you mean generic is ppc hosted on ppc linux or something like that, i dont know.

...i have lately written a quick summary of instructions on aros-exec but cant access it right now.

Yes, I did find an older build that appears to be a generic PPC build for Linux, but its several years old.
I'm looking at the i386 instructions to get a better understanding of the compilation process.

Thanks for the pointers, and when you can, could you let me see the document you mentioned?

Edit - I did find the AROS archives, but I am unable to apply for SVN server access.
Tools for the creation of a much more up to date AROS build for specific PPC platforms appear to be available, but I haven't quite figured out where all the needed components are.
It's OK, I'm giving myself the Summer to work this out.
I'd like to try the WiiU and PowerMacs G4 and G5 as platforms.

[Iggy]

@Iggy
This is great progress/news.

Also, that WiiU Linux port doesn't use SMP but...
The Expresso cpu has Symmetric Multiprocessing to connect all three cores, MESI/MERSI protocol for CPU Cache's to not cause invalidation's between all three core's when using the Cache and other implementations that were needed.  It is the best 750XX PPC cpu around .
Each core is capable of 4.9 Gflops...so a theoretical 14.8Gflops.  This puts it in league with AMD - Phenom X3 8450 / A4 5000 and Intel - i5 480M / Pentium E5800.

Again, the clock multiplier is only 5x.  It downclocks to 3x for vWii mode.  Those same commands can upclock it but you'd need better cooling...this is why I say take it apart.

Clock is set via EEPROM
http://wiiubrew.org/wiki/Hardware/SEEPROM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJC-rh3oLMk

SMP doesn't really benefit AROS [yet].  Though the x64 version has it...ABIv1?

Yep, but the WiiU uses a 32 bit processor, and that's not a big deal since I think AROS runs within the normal 32 bit memory address range unless you are using a 64 bit version (I could be wrong about that).
I did find OS components and PPC programs for AROS that are much newer than those posted on the main website (the OS is in a constant state of updates).
The PPC developers don't seem to have as advanced a version as the i386 port, but it looks like it should be possible to compile a port for the WiiU.

What I need is SVN server access, not to contribute initially, just for access to up to date source code.

And I need to find a few of these guys and see what hardware they are using. Past ports to the Sam440 and 460 have been done, as well as a port for the Genesi Efika.

I have a list of tools (outside of AROS) that are needed for a compile.
So I'll need to look for them, and decide what platform to use for development.

I  can't say how complete or stable a WiiU port will be initially, but this will be fun.

[Iggy]

what endian issues?

Found it in the docs, its a switch in the code during compilation.
They've actually documented this stuff fairly well.

[Iggy]

git clone https://github.com/ezrec/AROS-mirror

That will do quite nicely. Thanks Nik.
I now have the code I need, a recent Linux kernel for the WiiU, and a few versions of Linux that ought to work (but none perfectly as they aren't there own platforms, usually a Wii/WiiU combo).

So, a really stupid question, can AROS be compiled to a hosted system with only the Linux kernel or does it need other elements of an OS?

[Iggy]

Thanks for the advice warzon. I didn't expect to get this far this quickly.
And the AROS development community really has it's act together. Using an SVN server is particularly neat.
The coolest part about this is I could consider moving forward with Power processors after MorphOS shifts to X64.
Power9 should run this stuff really well, big endian, little endian, on Linux, with multiple sessions virtualized.
It has even been shown run X64 software.

So, an open platform, with open firmware, running open OS'.

The best part? Microsoft's nowhere in that equation. Neither is Intel.

As to the WiiU, we've got a 2013 version of AROS that is already set up for PPC hosted, we have the current sources ready to compile, there is a Linux 4.17 kernel available for the WiiU, and there are several Linux variants available for the WiiU including Debian 8 and Ubuntu.

And WiiU are dirt cheap, with a lot of potential that hasn't been tapped yet (the other two cores, gpu acceleration, etc).

lou, I owe you an apology, this looks promising.

[Iggy]

ah.. maybe i misunderstood, you mean something like anubis, arix or amithlon? or that kind of amigaos on linux kernel people are fantasizing about? obviously not. otherwise it would be widely known.

you can probably though strip down your linux host to get out of the way as far as possible. except for packages and tools needed for compilation, but then it can all be done from bash shell.

YES, that is exactly what I was thinking! But that could be a future goal. First get it up and running under Debian, and then figure out what can be jettisoned.

Considering the kernel is up to date, it might be possible to keep the underlying distro up to date.