To Vampire or not

[Iggy]

The one consistent claim you keep hearing repeated is what this will do "soon".

But they have implemented new instructions that almost nothing supports!

Hey, the excuses about not promising a compatible MMU (which an '040 or above cpu should have) don't make up for the lack of a floating point unit.

So cut the BS. This crap IS Natami style cultish at times.

[Iggy]

hahahah I loved the Natami!

Well, it occupied a lot of people's imaginations anyway.

Odd that the fpu for the cpu core of this STILL isn't done, and we're still seeing feature creep, but...its a hobbyist project so wtf.

[Iggy]

It's not as tedious as the constant cultish demands for an FPU.

That is particularly inane, even from an Amiga fanatic.
The cpu has been given the designation 68080, but doesn't have features that the '040 and '060 have standard.
Speed without compatibility?
Without a feature I can tack on to an '020 or '030 system easily?

Its remarkably underwhelming.

[Iggy]

I think the word you are looking for is" Work in Progress". I do wonder if all the negativity in general is why most developers still active on the amiga scene refrain from posting on forums.

Niding/Overflow

My apologies if it seems negative, but how long has Gunnar been working on a cpu core? And I'd mention that the fpu STILL isn't done, but it IS redundant.

Also like I said, its a hobbyist project, so the timetable isn't vital.

Further, negativity comes to us naturally, after the number of set  backs and disappointments we've all endured.
The fact the we still persist, just proves how stubborn we all are. ;-)

[Iggy]

And the hijacking of the topic is now complete!

Considering that the originator of the thread has already announced his intention to delay purchasing the "work in progress", you fan boys can all go home now.

[Iggy]

Why don't you show off Quake instead?

+1

[Iggy]

Oh great, SDL ports. Exactly what we need.

Note: This isn't Vampire criticism.

Hey, all camps keep pointing to outside ports, this isn't new.
Aren't some OS4 users pushing hard for Libre Office (which won't substitute for Office365 for my applications anyway, so I could care less).
Frankly, I'd like to see some more support for the continued development of native software like Final Writer.

Since all I plan on doing with an Amiga based office package is editing anyway, that would work fine with me.

[Iggy]

ok then why did he the thread at all?

just to start a flame fest?

gratulation success

No intent to flame anyone, I'd like to buy one, when it has the compatibility needed to make useful, which INCLUDES the fpu.

HDMI sound out, new multi-media instructions, for that matter video in general if it isn't fully AGA compliant, I DON'T care.
I'd just like a cpu that gives me what I can get with an '020, '030, '040, or '060 card.
At least the option of an fpu (if not one built in).

Again, this IS supposed to be the "'080", right? :angry:

[Iggy]

I would still say its worth getting one now even with the compatibility issues. For the most part if you just get apps that are for the stock machines they seem to work. If you run something thats 030+ it will expect an FPU and fail. I just try and remember that and have had some good luck with it. Its the auto detect stuff thats been a pain in the ass for me.

I don't doubt you there, and will at some point have to put one in my A2000.
After all, an fpu is not part of that design without using a cpu card.

BUT, since it IS available on a cpu card, I'd hope it would be a focus at SOME point in the Vampire's development.

[Iggy]

You seem to be berating people for agreeing with him that you shouldn't buy one unless it fits your needs now. It is not compatible with the 68030/68040 or 68060 MMU & FPU. So it certainly won't be going on my shopping list any time soon, I just hoped it would.

To you sir, and UberFreak, thank you gentleman.
Getting tagged as a "whiner" for merely wanting the functionality a dirt cheap 68882 gives me is remarkably irritating.
Also, the label of "professionals" is a little questionable, since they aren't carrying on like professionals, they're carrying on like hobbyists that want to be create some kind of exclusive club.

If you can't take constructive criticism, you simply aren't that professional.

[Iggy]

* The claim is that an FPU is done, and was done more than 12 months ago.
* The only testing Gunnar is interested in, is that can be done in assembler code and that is a "killer app" for the Apollo Core FPU, the way Riva is a "killer app" for the AMMX instructions.
* The claim is that they offered the Apollo Core FPU 12 months ago to "the amiga coder community" (whoever they are?), but that noone showed any interest in it
* Gunnar wants to do a different FPU, a new one, even better, faster, more amazing etc.
* But only if there is enough interest in "the amiga coder community" to work man hours for the "team".
* Gunnar does not care one squat about old legacy programs that use FPU, for those, if anyone is interested, someone can very well slap together an FPU emulator.
* No FPU for current Vampires. The super duper new FPU is for the next generation of cards only, because Gunnar now sees potential in shiny new FPGAs that are coming.

All quite scary, if true. :confused:

[Iggy]

I would be happy to be wrong, but this is the essence of what Gunnar has stated on IRC and on the Apollo Core forum. Sadly he has a tendency to delete what is written on the forum, so it can be worth while to take screenshots and copy text for future reference, wayback machine only visits so often

http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=4¬e=5931

Thanks for the reference.

"While the APOLLO FPU was successfully used in some customer project, for usage in 68K AMIGA OS some more testing was found required.
The Apollo-team did ask for AMIGA coders community to help testing 12month ago - in this time no coders applied for this.
So it became clear that the FPU priority in AMIGA world is not very high.
This makes sense as the majority of AMIGA software does not use FPU at all.
While we have a FPU now, we also know that the FPGA technology will allow to reach floating point performance 1000 times faster than existing Motorola 68060 CPUs we need to look for a solution which we can use long time and which allow benefit from these FPGA technologies. Therefore its advisable to verify and review the design to make sure that its future-proof.

Yes, scary is definitely the word.
I might go as far as crazy, but that would just bring on the flames.

Why would "coders" be needed for testing?
"1000 times faster"? - Right now, infinitely faster, because it doesn't exist (at least not to the community at large).

"Future-proof" - His goal is a "future-proof" 68K design (or at least the fpu)?

Hmm...the question becomes, can I rely on someone with this level of stability?

[Iggy]

I hope they will make FPU soon, not because of games and demos, but to silence 90% of the critics.

Anyway Vampire is good, but if you have 040/40 in your A2000 I would keep it and buy A500 or another A2000 for Vampire 500.

I hope they get to that stage myself, because while I am no longer in direct contact with Gunnar, I do wish him and the Apollo team all the best in their endeavors.
At one time, we had a common interest in seeing support across Amiga platforms.
But the majority of us left in the community (myself included) each have our own priorities  (and enough eccentricities) that we sometimes rub each other the wrong way.

Anyway, I see this issue (the lack of a fpu)as a valid complaint.

And I'm not sure I share this "Super 68K" fpga vision with Gunnar.
It wouldn't have enough compatibility with legacy hardware as he seems to envision it, and isn't that the point of going back to the 68K (for better legacy compatibility)?

[Iggy]

Are you and Kolla now playing ping pong? Ping bash on Gunnar, Pong bash on Gunnar? It is getting boring...

if you do not like it do not buy it...

Gunnar always stated that people should not buy it for what it might offer in future but for what it offer

There are long waiting list with people only moaning that they have to wait not because of missing FPU. If someone bought it and is not happy with it I am pretty sure that he can sell it to more thankful people

Iggy you are MOS guy, PPC fan and Aros hater, a deadly combination regarding Vampire. If you do not like it do not buy it. But this game toegether with Kollar is becoming boring. Sometimes people like you and others moan about me praising Aros but you are not different and not better

I'm thrilled that you're bored, since maybe it will slow down the spread of such nonsense.
I am in no way an AROS hater, I currently am contributing to the drive to keep a roof over Kalamatee's head, and I have a few friends in the AROS development community.

If you can point to one comment bemoaning AROS that I've made, repeat it.

As to Gunnar's weird "I have it, but you can't get it, because my end goal is the imposible" logic, hey if you have a problem with me for calling out someone on their public statements, that is your problem.

BTW - I don't care what bores you, we aren't here for your entertainment.
Its a public forum, so stop trying to bully me, because you don't have logic on your side in this one.

[Iggy]

no you entertain yourself and Kolla

that is not better

And yes I remember comments from you that downtalk Aros. I will look for it just for the fun to proof you wrong

You do that, it will keep you occupied.
And in the meanwhile, I'll still be supporting NG OS' (even though I've got my preferences, the worst that you're going to find is that I've placed AROS second). :hammer: