Is Amiga Inc's claim to AOS valid?

[Iggy]

It recent threads here and ot AimgaWorld and MorphZone this question has been discussed,.
Are Amiga Inc's claim to ownership of AOS valid.
Franko has made an interesting point, when placed on the Web for download Kickstart and AOS files have not faced challenge.

Andeas Wolf has sent me the following references (via MorphZone) which I find revealing.

http://sites.google.com/site/freeamiga/#TOC-1997-1998%3Cimg%20src=
http://moobunny.dreamhosters.com/cgi/mbmessage.pl/amiga/169254.shtml
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=575947
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=588275

I, personally, am of the opinion that AInc claim is invalid (which would then make Hyperion's license invalid).
What do all of you think?

[Iggy]

All Rights Reserved. In other words, we lay claim, we may pursue and at our leisure.

IP/Copyright law isn't worth a penny unless there is some merit and profit in pursing it, I have no doubt that infringement of Amiga Inc's rights are often not pursed, simply because there isn't any money in it.

If someone took any IP/copyrighted material and turned over a million dollar profit, I have no doubt a lawyer somewhere will plead to represent AINC in the matter for a nominal fee and the letters would land on the carpet of the offender.

Enforcement of and the Breaking of, the law is not as simple as it first sounds when applied in absentia of a victim.

Did anyone read those references?
It is entirely possible that Escom and Gateway did not have the right to sell the OS (if they ever did sell it) as it may not have been properly transferred to them in the first place.
Which could very well mean that only licensees that dealt with Commodore before bankruptcy have a legal claim to use AOS.

Further, if Escom, fgateway and Amiga Inc. have never been the legal owners of AOS, how long would be needed before it lapsed into public domain?

[Iggy]

Isn't there a new law passed in the USA that allow authorities to shut down any website guilty of hosting unauthorized copyrighted content? Don't you think anyone with legitimate claims to IP would use such a law?

I know of no such law. A property owner can try to obtain a cease and desist order and send e-mail or letters requesting the removal of material they object to.
What makes you think the US can control websites when they couldn't even challenge Wikileaks over classified material?

[Iggy]

Than who do you think owns it?

It may come down to who has a liability claim against Commodore Business Machines, Inc. and Commodore-Amiga, Inc.

Money! (lack of it)

They never had money as far as I can tell. What was Hyperion's contract price? Something like $10,000 wasn't it?
Personally, I think the documentation speaks for itself.
The German transfer is questionable (occurring after CBM went bankrupt) thus nullifying the 2007 transfer.

In short, the property was never legally acquired by anyone after CBM folded.

In Mr. Jens Schoenfeld's words, "Face it guys, the 'Amiga curse' is not about the Amiga. It's about the people who supposedly own the rights."

God, i love that quote from Jens.

[Iggy]

I had thought of that and again another simple answer, just make sure it isn't American based...

So much for living in "The Land of the Free".

[Iggy]

All claims were settled during the bankruptcy proceedings. That was the whole point of them.

Claims are usually settled during a bankruptcy procedure and all assets are liquidated with claimants being paid from whatever funds are derived from complete liquidation. Any remaining debts are considered discharged and the company no longer exists.
Therefore, how is it legal two years after the liquidation of CBM and Commodore-Amiga for a former official to transfer assets from a non-existent company to another entity?

[Iggy]

If something was copyrighted in the USA, than the time limits of the USA apply to it, according to the Berne Convention, of which the UK is a party to.

Again, if a company is insolvent and its assets are liquidated in a bankruptcy, it can not transfer assets to another company afterward as it no longer exists.
Bernhard Hembach was an employee of Escom. He is the individual that signed for all three parties in the three contracts that supposedly transferred the rights of this intellectual property to Gateway - this occurred three years after Commodore signed a  "Trademark Assignment" agreement with Escom, long after CBM and Commodore-Amiga were liquidated.
The only legal approval of this agreement was from a German notary.

These documents are absolutely NOT valid as Escom never obtained the rights to Amiga intellectual property - ever.

Its that simple. I can't buy one thing from a company going bankrupt and then years afterward sell something else to another company (that originally belonged to the bankrupt firm)- because I don't own it!  Get it guys? Escom never owned Amniga OS. So Gateway couldn't transfer it to Bill because they didn't legally buy it (they couldn't because Escom never owned it).

[Iggy]

Awe... its a dull Tuesday night and I can't even get a decent argument round here, I've got about 400 channels of shit on the TV (only thing worth recording was the new series of "Deadliest Catch" to watch at about 4:am when I have me dinner)...

Just finished RetroBrighting all me old VIC 20 & C64 cases and started on my miggie cases now so I aint got any space left and am surrounded by froth and UV lamps (getting a nice tan though) so I've got nowt better to do tonight than hang around here chewing the fat with all you lovely peeps...

Could be worse, I could be over the road with a white sheet on me napper putting the willies up old Mrs Johnstone through her bedroom window... :eek:

C'mon Iggy stir things up a wee bit cos the other side have chickend out with the same old replies and quotes over and over again...

Frankly Franko, they can't counter they argument that AOS is an abandoned work. There is no ownership claimed for this product until three years after the copyright holder was dissolved.
Bloodline's right. It's a tainted property and by all rights its copyrights should not be valid.

BTW - What's Mrs. Johnstone look like?

[Iggy]

Bit like this on a normal day... :eek:



But she polishes up well when needs be...



Seeing as no ones got any good counter arguments, anyone fancy a game of I Spy...

Nope, I was thinking of putting out my little eyes after that one.
And your right. i think we wore them out.
Time to go dig up a DVD-R that Xdelusion sent me.

[Iggy]

All very valid points. Thank you all for reminding me how intensely pointless all this is.
Perhaps Ben Hermans and Barry Altman are the only people who still take this trademark seriously.
I actually wish them both the best of luck.
And we do still have alternatives.

BTW - Kesa, thanks for the recipe.

[Iggy]

@ Iggy

Oooh... Second time in 24 hours that I've nicked your medal (Gloat... Gloat...)...

Just wondering you've been doing a lost of posting over recent times, have you retired like meself and also got way too much time on your hands...

No, just spending too much time on the internets (at least according to the wife).
My recent spike in posts is primarily due to some ridiculous crap Dave Haynie has once again been spouting.

[Iggy]

@Iggy

Think of it this way.... if Haynie's BS is true then MorphOS is the true Amiga OS.

One could further mash the heads of the Blind Hyperion Followers by digging up that old post where one of the Friedens stated that OS4 contains little to none of the Commodore source.

No Nicholas, we're not currrrsed.
But that quote from one of the brothers is telling.
How useful would the source code be?

Thanks for reminding of that comment. I was letting Haynie's oft repeated slur get to me. Even Ben Hermans no longer posts crap like that.

AmigaDave's been following me around to different forum trying to get me to temper my posts. I shouldn't get combative like this. We're actually seeing a lot more cross-platform respect and cooperation.

Have you seen the warning Gunnar has posted on the Natami site?
Maybe we should all adopt a similar policy.

[Iggy]

Source code is the ultimate spec. If you have the source, you can write a better replacement than anybody else. It doesn´t have to be in your results, but having access to the sources makes a big difference!

I can see your point. But with access to the 3.1 source Hyperion's product isn't superior to MorphOS. The additional time spent improving MorphOS seems to have given it an edge.

[Iggy]

Someone could always try this -
http://www.amiga.com/about/contact/

Yeah, ask the former Gateway employee if the property was transferred properly to his company. That'll work. Like he doesn't have a vested interest in it. :roflmao:

[Iggy]

http://aminet.net/package/docs/misc/Amiga-Trademarks

Current trademarks as compiled by Christoph Gutjahr.