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Author Topic: ARM for the future?  (Read 28943 times)

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Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #14 from previous page: January 14, 2011, 12:17:54 AM »
Quote from: TheBilgeRat;606517
None other than the normal type of corporate behavior that involves destroying the competition by any means necessary and delivering the least amount of innovation at the maximum price point that the market will bear.

Now that's not an unfair statement. Intel and Microsoft have both played at that game. The SEC has investigated plenty of that behavior.
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Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2011, 02:41:51 AM »
On Microsoft, has this occurred to anyone?
If Microsoft supports ARM with Windows 8 and Amiga NG OS' are ported to ARM, it may be possible using virtualization software to run Windows and an Amigiod OS simultaneously on the same computer.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

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Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2011, 03:09:37 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;606629
It definitely has it's own charm, but then again I have a weird pseudo-masochistic fondness for 8086 real mode assembly. :lol:

Wow! You really ARE into pain!. Personally (as I've said before) I like 6809 assembly, and then there is 68HC11 assembly (for micro controllers), and (of course) you're right 68K assembly code is probably the last that was understandable.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2011, 03:52:35 PM »
Yes, I do expect Microsoft to support more than Nvidia ARM hardware too. After all, the initial announcement by Microsoft mentioned three companies (Nvidia was only one of them).
Since one company that was mentioned was TI I expect to see Win 8 support for TI's OMAP processors (like the one included on the PandaBoard I've mentioned before).
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2011, 05:22:11 PM »
Quote from: JJ;606681
There is no longer any connection between Genesi and MorphOS.  They are two totally seperate things.
 
No support either way any more as far as I know

No recent support, but a valued former partner.

From :MorphZone:
http://bounties.morphzone.org/

"Highest Donations...Genesi...Site Maintenance..."
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2011, 03:08:23 PM »
Quote from: r06ue1;606742
:roflmao:
 
Exactly how I feel about it, always been a big fan of RISC myself, would love to see a NG Amiga OS on a RISC based system.

PPCs are RISC processors, so there are already two RISC based Amiga NG OS'.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2011, 10:52:11 PM »
I'm kind of curious about the opinions of those of you who see AROS68K as significant to legacy hardware.
I can see the utility of AROS68K for the Natami and other powerful re-implementations of the Amiga, but what does it bring to older machine's. What advantages does it have?
And as a PPC user I don't think I have a lot to worry about if you think legacy hardware is going to become competitive with this OS. I'm not sure the Natami will be truly competitive. Sure it would be nice to own one, but I don't see it replacing a more modern computer.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 11:03:54 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2011, 10:30:14 PM »
Yes, we've discussed the BeagleBoard before and if you look at earlier posts in this thread you'll see a reference I made to a more powerful, similarly sized product called the PandaBoard.
There are a lot of small ARM based systems.
And Nvidia's planning on moving the ISA to desktops and servers.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2011, 08:00:13 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;607483
Only with few of the benefits.



Modern video editing has come a long, long way since the days of Newtec's Toaster. Everything these days is digital and in that arena I suspect AOS, even with all the improvements of MOS or AROS or OS4 would be put under severe pressure to cope with the sorts of demands that kind of software would make in today's environment.

Photo editing is probably more realistic, but then you're competing in an arena where Linux has some pretty mature and feature rich software to choose from.



As well as a significant chunk of it's capabilities due to it's being hampered by 80's era APIs and architecture. Appliances are supposed by nature of their requirements to be stable and unobtrusive in their function. Rigged up to the eyeballs with patches and kludges, AOS was never that.



But that Ubuntu install has out of the box more capabilities than you could get with AOS even with every patch and hack from Aminet installed and running smoothly (and good luck with that). It also has the supreme benefits of both being free (in all senses of the word) as well as well supported by vendors and coders.

There are probably more coders working just on the Linux kernel today then there were developers for Amiga software even at it's height to give you an idea of the scale of the mountain you're looking to go up.

This desire to try to move it back out into the mainstream, even under the limited guise of "appliance" type machines is simply that doesn't make any commercial sense (actually I think it makes even less sense than to try marketing it as a full blown desktop computer). There are far better suited, already mature and cheaper options around.

Amiga coming back was a great dream in 1997, which was realistically the last chance it ever had. In 2011 that same dream leaves a truly bitter taste in one's mouth. It's a retro hobby system and I'm sorry to have to repeat this, but that is all it will ever be at this late stage of the game. Minimig (and perhaps one day Natami if/when it's released) really do show the way to go in terms of the future of the Amiga. UAE for anyone else.

For those of us committed to legacy software, I'd have to agree with you Alan.
But I run very little legacy code and I'm using my OS of choice because it provides a familiar development platform. I have Ububtu installed, but I don't write anything under it (I just use it).
I'd still like to see ARM ports of the NG OS' and if I can run Ubuntu or riscOS then I'll have those as well.
Since your not responsible for paying my OS licensing fees, I'll support what developments I care about.
And if it remains a hobby, so be it. It holds my interest.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 08:10:01 PM by Iggy »
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2011, 08:11:51 PM »
Quote from: KThunder;607344
hmmmm... one of this would fit very easily into an a1200 case leaving tons of room for other stuff.

ill have to check out the pandaboard

Why even put it in a case?
I'm thinking of mounting one on the back of an LCD monitor.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 11:48:09 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;607523
But if we don't pretend it was the universally-beloved market ruler that was cruelly assassinated by Microsoft and Intel, we won't have any absurdly unrealistic standards for success in new-school Amiga system efforts! And man, if we didn't have those, why, we might start enjoying small-scale efforts that preserve what people liked about the Amiga even if they don't measure up to the raw computing horsepower of modern PCs! We can't have that!

I already have that. I'm satisfied with my humble system. I'll leave the more expensive NG systems to those of you that have more money than I do.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2011, 02:21:18 AM »
Quote from: Hammer;607541
ARM ISA was on desktop PCs i.e. Acorn Archimedes(1987), Acorn Risc PC(1994), Acorn Network Computer(1996, with Oracle's support), Acorn Phoebe (1998, prototype Risc PC2).

You forgot to mention the Intel;Xscale processors used in Castle Technology Ltd's RISC OS5 machines or RISC OS 6. So technically ARM is still in these markets to this day.

Perhaps what would be a better way to say it is Nvidia intends to move an ISA which is primarily thought of as an embedded processor into mainstream use in desktops and servers.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"
 

Offline Iggy

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Re: ARM for the future?
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2011, 04:44:44 AM »
Quote from: runequester;607552
Given that I don't think HP, Intel, IBM etc ever worked for the amiga, I'd wager you are right.

The linux kernel is a pretty amazing collaboration between disparate corporations and independents.



Keep it hobby, and it'll keep flourishing. Thats where we should be, and thats what we should work towards.

A hobby that still has some utility. I can deal with that. I don't think the amount of work going into this affects our hobbyist status. More its the fact that no one is likely to get rich developing for this market.
"Not making any hard and fast rules means that the moderators can use their good judgment in moderation, and we think the results speak for themselves." - Amiga.org, terms of service

"You, got to stem the evil tide, and keep it on the the inside" - Rogers Waters

"God was never on your side" - Lemmy

Amiga! "Our appeal has become more selective"