OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?

[Iggy]

Maybe if you guys push this issue hard enough, Hyperion will move to X86.
Then the only people Treavor and A-eon could market their hardware would be to those of us using MorphOS.
We get a new system (that most of us think is really cool) and Hyperion gets to compete with Microsoft and Apple instead of with MOS.
And, as has been mentioned before, they'll be charging for their OS while AROS will still be free.

One consistant thing you can count on with Amigans. They don't understand business or economics. Outside in the real world, Hyperion would get crushed.

I understand their reluctance to move in the direction you guys are suggesting and hope to have them around fora while longer as competitors (and an attraction to developers which might also support MOS).


How well do you guys think that will work?

[Iggy]

Does none count as a minority? I've got friends with MorphOS compatible Macs & I cannot convince any of the to try out MOS...they just look at me like I'm mad! LOL

PZ.

At least one, myself. I was familiar with the Amiga (actually pretty much all personal computers) as I'd started using/building my own computers in the late '70's and since then I've stayed pretty informed on the industry as a whole.

Trust me, since I managed a company in the late 80's that built 68000 computers, I really hoped that Intel wouldn't gain dominance (in fact, to this day I base my X86 systems on AMD CPUs because without competition Intel would still be selling us crap like the P4).

Some when started to buy some old hardware (out of nostalgia) I looked at used Amigas. Good God man! The pricing is insane (especially for old hardware).
So I tried Amiga Forever, found it usable, but still not quite what I wanted.

Then, when the MorphOS team started to support equipment other than the Pegasos, I tried MOS, found I liked it, and have adopted it as my primary OS.

Of course I've still got systems that will boot Ubuntu and Windows, but in the last week I've used nothing but MOS.

So, like I said, the minority contains at least one (and I do believe we could convert others).

[Iggy]

Amstrad CPC range, best 8bit ever

Nay, C65 beast 8bit (we're not counting if it reached full production, right?).



Back to topic. If I read the posts after my last post correctly, Hyperion would have pay their developers not just for an X86 port, but they would alspo have to pay again for the right to use the source codes of AOS4 for the port? Or wouls any product resulting from AOS4.X source code still be covered?

[Iggy]

Nope, both wrong: Sam Coupe, bitches :p



They don't own the source code - the developers do - Hyperion is effectively a shell company, all developers are effectively contractors. The only have a licence to sell the binaries, which they would need to renegotiate with the devs to recompile for x86. They would have to pay off their devs in order to get the source, which I seriously doubt they have the cash to do.

Also, afaik they're only licensed to produce OS4 for PPC. They would need to re-negotiate with Amiga.Inc for that.

Effectively, they're stuck.

I thought that might ne the case. Wow, now that's a realy f'd up position for the Amiga market. Hyperion is allowed to use the terms mentioned before. AInc. can't use AmigaOS, but retains all rights including the right to the Amiga name and the copanyy they license the use of the Amiga name to isn't interested in AROS or AOS (and according to my converation with Barry he actually approached the MOS team, who told him the same thing that we've all heard - no X86 port for the foreseeable future).

This entire sistuation is only going to confuse the average consumer and make it even more impossible to create a renewed interest in the Amiga brand.

Now do you guys understand why I don't care if MOS or AROS carry an Amiga brand?
What was done in the past is cool, but it can be run on almost any platform.
What's to come in the future has to stand on its own merits (against some really well backed competitors that all offer OS' with a solid foundation and much bigger markets to draw developers).

Since a more ideal situation couldn't be negotiated, I'm not too displeased with the current situation.
I've said it before, Hyperion product acts to attract developers to the PPC market which could benefit MorphOS as well.
And AROS, beyond all understanding, is still chugging along approaching real utility.

The resurgence/re-emergence of the Amiga as a consumer brand is as unlikely as ever, but those of us in the Amiga hobbyist market now have a wider range of decent chioces than ever.

[Iggy]

Your right about numbers. In fact you might be overestimating.

Active, paying customers in each market segment (AROS, MOS, AOS4, and Legacy systems) may number in the hundreds each, not thousands.

MOS has seen some ports from AOS4 and AROS, but most of our software comes from a handful of talented MOS developers porting from outside thiese platforms.

[Iggy]

Noo, please no! Don't pollute MorphOS with flaky trade marks! MorphOS has its own trade mark now, with its own values. It's new and fresh, free from the crap that burdens the "Amiga" mark since 1.5 decade of mis-management, the visual style of its logotype looks really good aesthetically, and the blue Morpho butterfly is really beautiful! The name also alludes to "Metamorphosis", the process in which a life form transforms into another, like the old platform morphed into the new MorphOS.

It's all very clever!

Not only is it clever, it functional. And when the developers make a promise or a statement they're make good on their words, so it can't be Amiga

[Iggy]

If we take XMOS out of the picture and compare performancePPC vs performancex86, I'd say you would pay 4-5 times less(if X1000 price is somewhere around 2000 euros, which is likely) for hardware + AOS4 license. With XMOS included, I'd say half as much, but that's probably guessing wildly.

I'd say the first estimate is accurate. A full sized ATX motherboard with two PCIe X16 slots (to match the X1000) would raise the price slightly so 500 EUR is reasonable.

But the second estimates a little high. XMOS processors are a low cost item. If you have to have it on board, then yes its going to cost more because you're going to have to produce a custom motherboard. But what's wrong with an X?MOS plug in expansion card (then you only need the card).

Still better yet, stick with the first solution because XMOS is only really suited to hacking.

[Iggy]

Hmm, i tend to think it's not so!
"Within the framework of the settlement agreement Hyperion is granted an exclusive, perpetual, worldwide right to AmigaOS 3.1 in order to use, develop, modify, commercialize, distribute and market AmigaOS 4.x (and subsequent versions of AmigaOS including without limitation AmigaOS 5) in any form, on any medium and for any current or future hardware platform under the exclusive trademark "AmigaOS" (Amiga operating system) and using other associated trademarks (such as the "BoingBall" logo)."
 
I see no reason for them to ask permission if they actually wanted to port to x86 or xwhatever! Let's just face it: they don't want to!

But how do they do it without the rights to the source code for AOS4? Do they move to AOS5 (without AOS4 source code) like AInc. was discussing (via their India subsidiary)?

[Iggy]

Or, you know, you could be adult about it and either hit the report button, or add him to your ignore list.

Good point. Report made.