Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?  (Read 25446 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« on: February 03, 2011, 02:28:19 AM »
Quote from: AmigaEd;612004
This was a difficult one for me to vote on. In the end I chose Aros and here is my logic (or lack there of)...

I really love the Classic machines and have a home full of the stuff to prove it. The fact is though that the world is marching on and my classic hardware and software is less and less capable in many ways when compared to what is here today and what is coming in the future. Having said that, I still almost voted for classic on the basis that I'm hopeful that Aros68K might give the opportunity to do some of the things many of us have longed to be able to do with our classic systems.

In the end I voted Aros, because I find myself traveling fairly often and it's just too difficult to cart along a classic system (No thanks to airline baggage fees). With Aros I can carry my laptop anywhere in the world and still have that special Amiga experience.

Now in all fairness, I also carry WinUAE with me and I'm quite happy with my experiences with that.

I don't have any experience with it, but I think MorphOS is something that I could gravitate towards quite easily. It looks nice, seems well thought out, has a good selection of features and some very knowledgeable people behind it. Problem is that for some reason, I just can't bring myself to plunk down money for MorphOS and the hardware needed to run it.

On the hardware options, fact is I'm a hardware guy. I enjoy working with computers, hardware and software. I enjoy designing and building projects both for my work and home. However, It is really difficult for me to see many "justifiable" reasons for getting on-board with many of the NG hardware projects because they are all too obscure in their own way. I'm not saying I oppose these projects and in fact I would encourage them. They are great fun for the developers and the communities that form around them. I'm just saying that most are little more than a hobby and will never bring to fruition what more so "mainstream" hardware has and can. I guess I'd prefer to make the wheel better, rather than reinventing it.

Regards,
AmigaEd


geeze Ed you stole my whole freaking post!

in other words +1
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 06:15:32 PM »
sorry for the book, but this seems to be turning into a popularity contest rather than an objective look at platforms, I don't claim true objectivity, but here I think is my most rational and objective look at the subject:

vi·a·ble (v-bl)  adj.
1. Capable of living, developing, or germinating under favorable conditions.
2. Capable of living outside the uterus. Used of a fetus or newborn.
3. Capable of success or continuing effectiveness; practicable: a viable plan; a viable national economy.

When we talk about a viable platform we are talking about three things I think. Is it developing currently. Can it continue under current conditions indefinitely. And can it fullfill it's purpose capably.

As good as classic was, and I do like it alot, it is seeing some limited current development, it can fullfill its purpose but really only with legacy apps, but it cannot continue indefinitely. We can fix buggy capacitors etc. for only so long...the hardware is dying.

Minimig is a fantasic design that remedies much of the classics drawbacks but isn't really a platform as such, as it is not in any kind of active production, and is not forward looking (I would love it if a company started building minimigs in a600 clone cases)

OS4 is seeing some development in both hardware and software, but the hardware is highly specialized, difficult to find, and very difficult to replace or repair. It is a niche even within Amiga communities, and cannot continue indefinitely due to the limited runs and market penetration of our small community.

The same unfortunately can be said of Morphos, and other custom designs such as Natami. Too expensive, too rare etc.

UAE is a great bit for software that has kept many of us using amigaos and software, but is just that, software, it isn't really a platform unless you consider some livecd type implementations, but noone is really doing that much.

Which leads us to Aros. Many of you know I favor Aros and have said so numerous times, and with reason I think. Aros is under current, significant, development. The software is developed by the Aros team, and literally billions of free (to us anyway) development dollars are pouring into hardware development by companies around the world. Don't like x86 and its memory addressing limitations, bang, 386 etc, fixing all those problems, dont like the limited registers etc. of pentiums, bang, here is 64 bit cpus with more registers. Don't like the limited backwards compatibility of '040 and '060 68k's...well sorry here is a patch. Don't like the expense, and feature shifts of PPC... sorry that sucks.

Aros also doesnt depend of the fickelness of AI, or strength or the Aros team. It has lasted for years with no license, through all the lawsuits and stupidity, and is open source so even if all the current developers were to be abducted by aliens to work on their os, development would continue. Not just on the core os but on the apps that are under development as well.

And its viability as a hardware platform is assured as it is not dependant on small expensive manufacturing runs. We can all try Aros since we all have or can very easily get x86 hardware. If you havent tried Aros, go to the Aros website are try a livecd.

We all have our favorites, we all have ideals, but when you get down to real longterm practicality Aros really is the best, most viable, option. I don't thing that Aros will take over the world, but there are reasons that Linux hasn't. It is too complex, the distros are too different, the community is too splintered. There is no reason Aros couldn't be what Linux tried to be, an alternative desktop os, that is simple, fast, capable, and free.

And that is the most viable amiga option for me Aros (with Uae)
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 09:16:15 PM »
Quote from: Digiman;612198
They're selling PC+Linux but claiming they are next gen Amiga and letting idiots believe they related to C= of old.

Decide for yourself I say to everyone :)


They licensed the Commodore name therefore they are related to the C= of old. These apparently are former c64 or amiga users interested in selling Commodore branded computers. It's been done before, and unless they succeed it will be done again.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 09:35:33 PM by KThunder »
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 09:49:23 PM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;612231
...no. I don't care if you pay for a pre-existing name, receive it from a mysterious Dickensian benefactor, or make a wish on a friggin' genie's lamp - you don't just get to introduce something totally unrelated and claim it's the same thing. Legal, maybe, but sane/correct/ethical? No.


The Commodore of old DID sell pc clones, so it really is the same thing.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 01:27:31 AM »
Quote from: Arkhan;612281
I want to buy out the Chevrolet name, and start selling tampons.  They'll sell well, since all the Chevy enthusiasts will see the relation, right?


Cars to tampons, really? Thats a pretty pitiful contrast. If you think that Commodore International is like cars and CUSA is like tampons there isn't enough help in the world for you. However I do recognize a strawman no matter how poorly implemented.

If you bought out the Pontiac name and started selling trucks or SUVs or something they would. Like I said the Commodore of old did sell pcs and CUSA wants to sell pcs.

The c64 has not been sold in decades neither has the amiga so if a company said they wanted to sell the c64 again the vast majority of people would not think 8bit. Even if they said they wanted to sell Amigas most people would not think 68k.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 01:37:47 AM »
Its a computer. Most people wouldn't remember the c64 and buy it because it looks cool or whatever. If CUSA wants to sell and sell big it has to be more than to just us. They need a cool looking computer, with good support, a good website, and good advertising.

Nothing that we have right now except maybe for minimig has anything really to do with amiga, and has a good shot at the market. We can dream, but the guy at CUSA wants to do more.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 01:57:19 AM »
Some people seem to think it is their job to police the world for the long dead Commodore International, for copyright infringement, patent infringement and anything else they don't like. Defend our precious Amiga from anyone who would desicrate her!

The rest of the world doesn't care, and we cut off our nose to spite our face, and kill off any potential platform long pefore it has a chance to succeed.

Personally I am quite jaded with AI because I think they should have had an x86 OS4 years and years ago, but I don't wish them bad or anything. They got some money from me (presumably) for two copies of Amiga Forever.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2011, 02:19:04 AM »
Quote from: Franko;612321
For about the past half dozen posts you've made you keep mentioning what most people think (at least you think what most people think) are you some kind of psychic or mind reader... :)

And how do you know the rest of the world doesn't care, have you been round everyone on the planet and asked them... :)

You should go to Vegas and put on a show, "KThunder The Man Who Knows Your Every Thought"... :lol:

Bet you can't guess what I'm thinking right now... ;)



I wouldn't even hazard a guess with you franko :)
but since the vast majority of people use pcs, and commodore went under in '94 and most kids never even heard of the c64 I think I am right or at least close to it in many of my posts on this nonsense.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2011, 04:19:16 PM »
Quote from: Franko;612400
Old KThunder doesn't see things clearly like most (I think), he just likes to say what he thinks people think without thinking about it, don't you KT... ;)


It's like trying to have a serious discussion with a chatbot...
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 07:18:27 PM »
Quote from: Franko;612444
Is that it... I've been watching you type this ruddy reply for the past 12 minutes & 11 seconds now and that's all you've came up with (thought it was going to be something epic)... :lol:

Anyway chatbots are boring then tend to go a wee bit barmy when I talk to them and seem to get awfully confused by some of the things I say for some weird reason... :)

At least you always give me something to say, whether it makes much sense or not doesn't really matter, it's all done in the best possible taste... :)


I wrote a couple things, decided they were too harsh and I didn't want to piss anyone off, so I wrote that.

We had a guy here a few years ago called narayan, he seemed like a damaged chatbot. It was pretty fun to try to figure out what he was talking about.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 09:53:04 PM »
I had a friend from high school who found out a few years ago that I liked all things commodore, and he remembered a commodore commercial from the 80s "I can do more with my commodore 64!"

Many places here in the states Apple had a strangle hold on the schools. My school had "trash80's" in the middle school and Apples in the high school with a few pc's showing up later on.
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2011, 04:48:18 PM »
The custom chipset has been mentioned a few times recently on a couple threads and I thought I would comment on it.

The custom chipset wasn't the reason Commodore, or the Amiga had trouble, because it was Commodores chipset, as in not only did they own it they owned Mos tech which produced it all the way up to AGA.

"Vertical Integration" was the reason the Vic and C64 were less expensive than the competition, had generally better chipsets, and the c64 had a custom 6502. It was the reason Commodore could take on the Amiga chipset in the first place and sell for less than most of the competition, whilst having better features etc.

The problem came because Commodore didn't put enough money into Mos tech. By '85 rather than produce a 16bit cpu they went with a 68000 (the 16bit 65816 which is 6502 compatible works pretty dang good in the Apple IIgs and snes) And by the time AGA came around they couldn't fabricate some of the chips so they had to outsource.

So much of the cost savings of having your own chipfab were negated by the early '90s and commodore had to charge more and more while giving less and less in features. The cpu manufacturer of most of the 80s computers didn't plan ahead. The computer company that holds a guiness world record for the most systems sold of any single computer line, died.

As much as I like the 68000 the Amiga should have had a 65816 style 16bit chip. By the 90's they should have transitioned over to a 32bit 6502 compatible risc chip. All the ram and chipset components should have been Mos tech produced. And the Amiga chipset and OS should have been licensed out and chip fab services as well.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 04:56:55 PM by KThunder »
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2011, 04:59:48 PM »
Thats the thing though, the chipset probably wouldn't have had to be changed much at all. And they should have been able to handle it easily. The 68000 has a 16bit interface and kinda funky control bus setup but nothing too weird. I have seen 68020's connected to Apple II's so even if a little glue logic was required for OCS it could be completely fixed by ECS
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2011, 09:28:03 PM »
I think you missed what I said, I said a 16bit 6502 compatible cpu and then mentioned the 65816 as an example that it could be done and done well. The apple IIgs is pretty impressive machine, and though it is clocked at 2.whatever mhz the snes does pretty well too. The gs was actually a good bit better than the original mac.


http://oldcomputers.net/appleiigs.html
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)
 

Offline KThunder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2002
  • Posts: 1509
    • Show all replies
Re: POLL: What is the most viable Amiga platform for *you*?
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2011, 09:45:33 PM »
I didn't say use a 65816 I said they should have had their own  16bit 6502 cpu!!!
Oh yeah?!?
Well your stupid bit is set,
and its read only!
(my best geek putdown)