AONE Gothenburg 2002 Fall Event site online

[Seehund]

redrumloa wrote:

I hope you guys are lucky enough to see OS4 running on the A1!!!

One can only hope. But I'm afraid the planned schedule mentions nothing about AmigaOS - so far.

Apart from the "developer version" of the "AmigaOne" motherboard, they also write about something they call "the new Amiga computer"!? I thought they would only show this POP motherboard as distributed by a licensee?
I hope it's a misprint or just Eyetech's confusing marketing that somehow would have sneaked its way in there, and that Amiga Inc. hasn't gone totally insane and fscked things up again by trying to build Amigas again. Wow, THAT would be a step backwards even from the current compulsory licensing idiocy.

:- P

Go away 1980s, you're dead, we don't want you back, the computing world has moved on!

Oh well, if AmigaOS isn't there it's still "free entrance" , so maybe they've got some sandwiches or something, and I haven't tried out the latest Debian Woody yet.

[Seehund]

Oh well, if AmigaOS isn't there it's still "free entrance" , so maybe they've got some sandwiches or something, and I haven't tried out the latest Debian Woody yet.

HOLY CRAP!
There will be some *new* hardware shown after all:

Gunne Steen, GGS-Data on Ann.lu:

" This is a first announcement of the first showplace of the Pegasos-computer in Sweden and in Scandinavia.

Pegasos Gothenburg Show 2002 will be held on Sunday 22 September. On the show you will se Pegasos demonstrated and working for the first time here. Pegasos is a dual G3/G4/G5 MicroATX computer. At the moment it is possible to run either MorphOS or Linux operatingsystem on it. Organizer of the event is GGS-Data in co-operation with Thendic-France and betatesters of Pegasos from Sweden. Thendic as well as other important persons behind the Pegasos will join the show. More information will follow soon. Welcome ! Gunne Steen for GGS-Data"

I'll go just to see the fist-fight between Alan Redhouse and whoever will come from Thendic!

Oh yeah MorphOS will be demoed as well according to the comments on ANN (expect a flamewar because of the M-word). OK, personally I don't think a SuSE/Debian demo would have been all that exciting, but sheeit, this will be interesting!

[Seehund]

My money is on Alan.

Mine too. He shows the finesse of Mike Tyson when he addresses his potential customers in public.
But who am I to speak, I'm just one of the trolls, pirates and whiners or whatever we are today...

I hope the similarly PR-talented Bill Buck will be in the other ring corner - a struggle of true giants!

[Seehund]

At what point is the Pegasos newer compared to the A1?

The TeronCX which is the little changed basis for the board Eyetech is buying was sold in its first version in August 2001, and developed before that.
The Pegasos is a newly designed piece of kit, never released to the market in any version.


(And no, I don't want to take part in some stupid flamewar over trademarks. Those who feel the need to belong to and fight for a "camp" based on such things can stuff it. It's just hardware. Buy what you want).

Edit: Oh, you mentioned the A1-XE (currently known as Mai TeronPX). Yeah, I suppose that's contemporary to the Pegasos. But AFAI can see no TeronPX will be in Gothenburg, and I was talking about what will be shown here.

Edit 2: I see that even this news item labels one motherboard as "the new Amiga", so together with the "AmigaOne" trademark it's easy to understand why there's confusion.

[Seehund]

Wittgenstein:

Hmm, but that means that even the predecessor to the A1 (which is in fact a evaluation board from the make of the chipset, i.e. no product for the masses, only potential buyers of their chips like Bplan and Eyetech) is newer than the Pegasos since Bplan released the pegasos Feb 2001.

Nope, anyone could buy a TeronCX in August 01.
From your URL: "bplan GmbH announces that the first Pegasos prototypes are now available. The current prototypes will be used for internal testing and verification of system software, and are not for public release."
Photos and specs of those prototypes (or maybe they were later prototypes, can't remember now) have been shown and they were quite different from what we see today.

Ok, enough nitpicking, but do you think the pegasos design is _NEW_?

No, only in comparison to the Teron/A1 boards, and that they have not been commercially available for sale yet.

Both the A1 and the Pegaos are based on _old_ tech and _old_ ideas and a release of one platform x month before the other one doesnt make it old.

Yeah, there might be nothing new (as in: not seen in other hardware or specs before) or revolutionary about either mobo, but chronologically the Pegasos implementation of existing standards is newer than that of the TeronCX/A1G3SE, and it does use more modern components. Anyway, I'm interested to see it (especially running a new... ahem... ...an OS that I haven't used) and maybe get to talk to some people who are involved in the project.

Oooh, a petition-thread!

1: Primarily it would be AI's/Hyperion's responsibility to port their product to as much hardware as possible, it would be in their interest, third party hardware vendors won't care about AmigaOS (or MorphOS for that matter, before some trademarkist starts shouting "MorphOS troll" or something).
Otherwise it could be anyone really, if AI/Hyperion feels it wouldn't be worth their (Hyperion's) while.
There's a thread on MooBunny right now about this where I have tried to elaborate on this. Follow this link, it's too much to copy and paste out of its context.

2: See Kronos' reply. And someone who sells an OS of their own is even less likely to apply for a license for the privilege of  bundling somebody else's OS than "independent" hardware vendors are (and they are not likely to do it either).

3: First of all, this is not just about POP or "open hardware", it's about any hardware that AmigaOS could be made to run on with reasonable effort from Hyperion or a third party. Old, current and future.
But OK then, as for currently available POP hardware: Pegasos, TeronCX and its derivative, Inguard's Phoenix. But, again, this is not just about POP hardware, and it's not just about currently available such either, so question 3 isn't all that interesting IMO. I used the Pegasos as one current, concrete example in the petition. In retrospect maybe I should have left that out, but sometimes you have to spell things out for some of your readers.

(the biggest logic flaw is point three which fails to be constructive). The way it is stated now, it is much the same as asking Ainc to stop the time.

How so? I'm not saying that "at the day of release of AmigaOS 4.0 you must provide versions for AmigaOnes, PowerMacs, PowerBooks, Pegasoses, Terons, Phoenixes, Barbies, Xs, Ys, Zs...".

Basically I'm saying "Don't exclude any viable hardware option by default for no technical reason, AmigaOS needs all the hardware it can get, leave the field open and by all means go ahead with licensing - but don't make it compulsory and a prerequisite for AmigaOS to ever have even a chance to be considered to be ported to any hardware option".

Have you read the stuff at http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk ? More details and attempts at explanations of my reasoning there.
(¤#%&!!! The Portland monkeys seem to have fscked up things over there again. Hope it'll be back to normal soon.)

Edit: Doh! Forgot the MooBunny link.
Edit 2: A mirror site of amigapop.8bit.co.uk.

[Seehund]

Wittgenstein:

The prize was 3000$ or something like that and there were no working OS (maybe Linux booted). This wasnt meant for the normal user, it was ment as an evaluation board.

I don't know what the price was when it was first introduced, but in February a "commercial" board was "less than" USD $300, sans CPU. And, yes, it was delivered with a Linux distro (TurboLinux IIRC).
No, the Teron was not meant for Joe Blow to use as a personal desktop computer for AOL + games, but nobody has stopped Joe Blow from buying one, and now one distributor is even targeting a home desktop market, us, with a slightly updated and relabelled version of it.

From: "Marketing Department" marketing@mai.com
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:18:45 -0800

Thanks for your interest in Mai Logic products. The Teron CX evaluation
board is priced at US $3,900 ( technical suppport is also included in the
price). However, we also sell commercial Teron CX boards that include bare
board without CPU and SDRAM for less than US $300. We will provide the CPU
of  your choice at the current market price seperately.

What components are more modern? And again what is _newer_ with the design of the Pegasos(except that you claim that it was completed after the A1).

What fuss over one word! But then again I'd expect the Meaning of a word to be particularly important to a Wittgenstein.

The southbridge is newer, and design-wise the board is obviously made with more modern methods than the TeronCX, which a quick glance at photos of the two instantly shows. Tighter traces, more effective use of space on a micro-ATX format, yet it has more features (IEEE1394, IrDA, SP-DIF, CPU-module slot). The Teron/A1 does actually look rather "primitive" so to speak in comparison.




*** OT ***

I still dont get it how you can think that I will sign a petition that complains about isues that are so far in the future.

Because the presented distribution policies are to govern "all future versions" of AmigaOS, and they need to be changed right now, before they are allowed to harm any version of AmigaOS. For example, it might be too late to replenish lost market attractiveness with a later change of distribution policies if AmigaOS by then is already known from the outset as "that weird little OS that must be sold with and run on special versions of hardware from special vendors". AmigaOS needs access to an as wide range of hardware as possible as soon as possible. It can't afford to be limited by artificial licensing obstacles against even *beginning* the work of porting it to another piece of hardware. Naturally competition between AmigaOS-compatible hardware vendors must be encouraged and unrestricted from the beginning. The future of AmigaOS is dependent on hardware, not vice versa. This needs to be done right from the beginning, and I don't think that is happening right now.

Yes I understand what you are saying but I am saying that you create a senario that doesnt exist. It can exist in the future and then I'll sign but now this is speculation. Why not wait and see? The licensing has not hurt anyone yet

Why wait until the damage is done? Why not remove at least this risk of failure and total ostracism of AmigaOS before it can happen? It's not a good idea to gamble on a future for AmigaOS by giving it the worst possible conditions for at least a moderate success even on the "enthusiast" market, hoping that hardware vendors will come flocking to get an Amiga Inc. license. The first step is to make your product popular on a market, and when you have the popularity you can start hoping that people will want to license your product.
And yes, the compulsory licensing has hurt someone already. Us. Us who want to buy AmigaOS, and us who want technical issues to set the limitations for what hardware we buy and from whom we buy it. AmigaOS could have been running on the Pegasos by the time it's released, but *only* because of the compulsory licensing/bundling/dongling requirement this is not possible. Now there's just one piece of hardware sold by one distributor, and even if that hardware would have been the best on the planet, it's still in effect a monopoly and that's not good for anyone, not even necessarily for the monopolist in this case with this small market and in the long run.