MorphOS ahead of AROS?

[HenryCase]

I was a little bit offended when someone asked how we could even mention MorphOS and AROS in the same sentence. Hence I wanted to know if the difference is really that big.

Whilst I don't know for sure who said that, I think it's safe to say such a viewpoint places this individual in the minority. I've found most people in the Amiga community are generally supportive of AROS, even if they may prefer another operating system. Can we view the commenter as the troll they are and move on now?

[HenryCase]

@takemehomegrandma
I had a feeling that the comments that sparked this thread would've been from you, but chose not to name you. Let's see your explanation...

I'm afraid Mazze is "bending the truth" a bit in his claims above. This is what happened: AmigaNG said in another thread: "if you really want a cheap Amiga ng type of experices then I would personally recommend getting an old pc and installing Aros on it, not a PowerMac", to which I replied "It would be interesting to hear how you can even compare MorphOS [or indeed OS4] to AROS like they would be playing in the same league? ... you are solely focusing on x86 hardware *for the sake of it*, totally neglecting the differences in features of the two OS's, which probably is the most important variable of them all for the user experience and *usability* at all..."

Sounds to me that Mazze's comments are spot on. Let me break it down even further. AmigaNG basically said 'if you're interested, here's how to get a "NG Amiga"-like experience for the cheapest price'. There is no denying that AROS is cheaper than OS4 or MorphOS, so basically what you end up doing is questioning whether AROS should even be classed as a NG Amiga system.

What I've found following the evolution of AROS is that the complaints levelled against it have shifted as its improved. I see now that the complaint du jour is about seamless running of 68k software. Whilst it's not the first time I've heard this complaint, you seem more willing to use this as the key point that separates AROS from OS4/MorphOS. So is what you're saying that once AROS has seamless 68k software usage, like say Amithlon, it can be seen as NG, but not before?

As for your other comments about AROS, I'm glad you're generally supportive of the project. You know, you'd be a much more effective advocate for MorphOS if you could speak to others more respectfully. Food for thought.

[HenryCase]

No, it didn't, don't try to make it look like I have created some Anti-AROS thread here, because that's not true!

I didn't say you started the thread, I said your comments sparked it. Mazze has already said that your comments were the reason the thread was started.

Let's *not* "break it down"/re-interpret what he said, he said *exactly*: "if you really want a cheap Amiga ng type of experices then I would personally recommend getting an old pc and installing Aros on it, not a PowerMac", and nothing else!

I broke down the comments as you didn't seem to understand them in their unedited form. AmigaNG made a personal recommendation for a cheap NG Amiga system, he proposed AROS as a solution. AROS is undeniably cheap, so the only bone of contention you could have was whether it was 'NG' enough.

But that's not even the point - the point is that the level of "NG Experience" doesn't come from the price either, it comes from the OS.

In the comment AmigaNG made, both the price and the 'NG Amiga'-like experience were what his choice of AROS was being qualified using. Is AROS cheap? Yes. Is AROS an 'NG' system? In my (and many other people's opinion), yes. So it's a valid choice given the criterion set.

So I merely pointed out that the "NG experience" doesn't come from x86/PPC, but from the OS

WTF?! Absolutely *not*, what is this?! Of course it is a NG Amiga system, it was the first of its kind, and I have *never* kicked at it in any way!

If you truly believe you've "*never* kicked at it in any way!" then you really need to work on your people skills. There seems to be a big disconnect between what you say and what you think you're communicating.

That has *always* been on the topic, it was lifted forward by Amiga NG Enthusiasts to the AROS devs more than a decade ago (search ANN.lu for example), but it was always discarded as a low/non-priority thing that no developer thought would be necessary or interested in working with.

As I said before, it's not the first time I've heard this complaint, but it seems to me that as AROS improves the more weight is placed on the remaining features it's missing. I've got a feeling that if 68k integration on par with OS4/MorphOS was achieved, you'd shift your attention to another feature (like MUI4 or something) instead of accepting AROS as a decent system. I'm not saying that OS4 and MorphOS don't have some desirable features, but if you could just accept that AROS is making good progress then we could start a more respectful dialogue.

AROS can never have the same seemless 68k Amiga compatibility by using UAE, it will always be like an Amiga computer running on top of the AROS computer, although *looking* like it isn't!

Why can't AROS have seamless compatibility with 68k software? Is it because of the x86 thing? Do you understand why I brought up Amithlon in this conversation?

[HenryCase]

Secondly MOS and Hyperion are wasting time true, they are stupid not to be working on x86 conversion. PPC is very expensive per mhz and a dead product line. Like you say only Aros has longterm future.

Digiman, I would prefer it if you didn't make statements like this. Bashing other platforms like this does not help anyone. The challenges that PPC adds to OS4 and MorphOS development are well understood by all, we're all doing the best we can with the limited resources we have.

[HenryCase]

@Digiman

Have you actually ever used a MacBook ??

You know that those trackpads are multitouch and OSX regognises "gestures" ?

Sure it's not the same as a trackpad with 3 buttons + dedicated scrolling area, no it's much better !

Heck I find the relative primitive 2 touch touchpad of my PBs much more intuive/useable than any touchpad I've come across on Wintel-laptops.

Just out of interest, how does MorphOS currently get 'right click' functionality on Powerbooks? If I remember correctly, when using AROS on Macbooks you press a key on your keyboard to get a 'right click', can't remember which button though, don't have a Mac.

[HenryCase]

Well, I'm not allowed to tell you details, but 3.0 can detect multitouch and utilizes them similar to MacOS10.5.

I see. Fair play.

[HenryCase]

or something like VLC?

All three NG Amiga platforms already have ports of MPlayer, which offers practically the same video support as VLC.

[HenryCase]

Is really os4 running on g5's?. Note that the pasemi is not a g5.

You're right, it's not a G5, the X1000 was designed by the Far East Movement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4s6H4ku6ZY

VLC is much more advanced than mplayer.  If you have any doubts just look up people trying to use a hdhomerun with mplayer vs vlc.   I personally would love to have the latest version on AROS with libbluray support.

As I said before, practically the same, not exactly the same. As Fab pointed out, both MPlayer and VLC rely heavily on FFMPEG. Other than the BluRay support you pointed out, I can't think of much that MPlayer can't play. In fact, it looks like MPlayer does support encrypted BluRays with a workaround:
http://www.mplayerhq.hu/design7/news.html

MPlayer does support encrypted BluRay playback, though not all steps are handled by MPlayer itself. The two alternative methods use the URL schemes bd:// (always supports decryption, but you need the key for each and every disk in ~/.dvdcss/KEYDB.cfg and only works well with very simple BluRays, similar to dvd:// vs. dvdnav://) and br:// (uses libbluray and should support the same as VideoLAN in the link below but that is untested).

End correction

 MPlayer needs some documentation on how to play encrypted discs. Patches are welcome. VideoLAN users can follow the instructions here | Mirror

 I have not tested, but it looks like it works on Mac OS X, Linux and Windows. Thanks to whoever created this and hopefully no one will have to rip the discs to a hard drive before playing now.

[HenryCase]

Multicast video streaming also comes to mind.   I can't watch my network tv tuner with Mplayer but I can with VLC.

Look, I use VLC, I know it's good, but can't you see that MPlayer is very similar in functionality?

[HenryCase]

playing the same codecs does not equal being an equal product.

When it comes to video players, equal support of codecs does mean an equal product, by and large. All the rest is just bells and whistles on top of this core functionality. Think about how you use a video player.

1. Open video file.
2. Press play.

That's it. As long as the video player plays the file without incident, you don't really interact with it much. This is different from, let's say, spreadsheet software, where you're frequently interacting with the UI.

It's more geared towards being a network video tool.

Most people use VLC as standalone video player.

[HenryCase]

the bells and whistles as you put it are part of the product.  so <> features = <> product.

Okay, apart from the networking features that are clearly important to you, what features (that you care about) does VLC have that MPlayer does not?

ooo care to point out  where you got idea most people use vlc as a stand alone player?  Because it certainly wasn't from vlc's site or forums.

You might have heard of these things called torrents. They're kinda popular for getting videos. Are you suggesting more people stream videos rather than download them (aside from flash-based sites like YouTube and premium services like Netflix?)?

[HenryCase]

even for torrents many ps3 users use vlc to transcode the video and stream it to thier ps3's instead of filling up the hard drive.   You know the ps3 you might have heard of it?   there's 1 or 2 people who own one.  Just because you are to simple to do it doesn't mean it's not a popular feature.

Seeing as many people have laptops with HDMI ports built in, you're right, I don't see the point.

[HenryCase]

you don't have to see the point.   However millions of people do see the point.   I have a latop with hdmi out.  However I don't see the point of pulling it out to hook up to my projector when I can simply stream the video to my already hooked up ps3.  On top of that I can stream to multiple machices at once.

I get it for the geek factor, but apart from that, I don't see why anyone would bother. Let's look at the two solutions:

1. If in worst case scenario you don't have any free HDMI ports in TV/projector, pull cable out and plug in laptop (if do have spare port, then can just keep spare cable around for this).
2. Set up network video stream on laptop/PC, find stream on PS3.

Scenario 1 means no transcoding necessary, no network bandwidth is used up. Scenario 2 requires use of two machines, and if you want to broadcast at a decent level of quality is going to tie up a decent sized chunk of your home network bandwidth. Setup time with both scenarios is roughly equal. You mention streaming to multiple machines at once, just how many PS3s do you own!

Plus, if it's something you do frequently, you'd be far better off with investing in a proper HTPC (running XBMC or similar) and cutting out all this faffing about.

[HenryCase]

2 ps3's 1 htpc, 2 hdhomerun boxes, 3 xbox360's.  1 Media server

Nice.

It's not about hooking up a hdmi cable.   It's the fact that I only setup my home theater once period.   I don't have to touch it again.   so by your own logic hooking up a laptop is more work.

You don't have to touch the cables, but you do have to setup the video stream each time. As I said before, probably looking at similar setup time (about 30 seconds I reckon).

Anyway, horses for courses and all that jazz, do whatever works for you. Sounds like you've got a nice home media setup, what software does the HTPC run? Also, what's the media server? I've been putting together plans for some HTPC goodness, so it'd be good to share notes.

EDIT: Just to say, my current plans are along the lines of Intel ION-based PC running the Ion build of OpenElec http://openelec.tv/ , once they've made their XBMC Eden-based release. I've also been thinking about how I can use some Raspberry Pi as media centre devices, giving them away as presents to friends. Possibly using them as network-connected radio/music streamers.

[HenryCase]

The htpc is simply a XBMC box in my living room.   As for my media server it's a headless ubuntu box sitting in a closet that I store my ripped blurays on.   each hdhomerun has 2 tvtuners this gives me 4 tuners I can watch pause play with. I do it this way so I don't have to lug anything from room to room.   If you want more details pm me and we can discuss further.

Ah, I see, cool. With regards to your media server running Ubuntu, just in case you didn't know Plex Media Server (which can run on Ubuntu) now supports DLNA, so you can stream direct to any modern TV in your house (if you have a network connection to them of course):
http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/30/plex-media-server-beta-dlna-wp7/
http://www.plexapp.com/getplex/

News only came out about a week ago, thought it was worth sharing.

EDIT: Serviio is another option for this:
http://www.serviio.org/