Netsurf V3.0 Amiga release 2

[Damion]

Cool, thank you!

Question:

Is it possible to get it going without afa running? If I try, it doesn't load, just a window pops on the screen for a split second. Maybe it's a fonts issue? (Though Netsurf-ttf 2.1 works juts fine.) SnoopDOS provides no clues.

Anyhow, fun to see this run on an A2000. On real 68k, the speed is entirely reasonable considering the hardware IMHO.

[Damion]

Yes, NetSurf runs even *without* Afa_os. Just copy the dejavu fonts in netsurf fonts directory http://dejavu-fonts.org/wiki/index.php?title=Download

Yeah, the fonts have to be there for it to work either way it seems. No problem with afa running, but without it doesn't start.

[Damion]

On my Workbench 3.1 setup *without* Afa_os, NetSurf works perfectly.
Try to put your workbench on a RTG screen with 16 bit depth, instead of leaving the workbench on native screen.

I'll fiddle with it some more, but I normally use a 16-bit RTG screen. The odd thing, it doesn't even load - I click the icon, there's a barely perceptible flash of a window, then nothing. I edit the startup-sequence to enable afa, and it works perfect.

Must be something stupid I'm overlooking.

*edit* ooooh, I think I know what it is

[Damion]

I'll fiddle with it some more, but I normally use a 16-bit RTG screen. The odd thing, it doesn't even load - I click the icon, there's a barely perceptible flash of a window, then nothing. I edit the startup-sequence to enable afa, and it works perfect.

Must be something stupid I'm overlooking.

*edit* ooooh, I think I know what it is

Figured this out, it works fine.

The Netsurf icon (like newer Ken's Icons in general) shows up as a "drawer" when using Power Icons, instead of a "tool". Running afa it's recognized correctly, and loads fine.

So just a matter of changing the icon or running from shell.  

Slightly off topic, but can anyone explain this icon weirdness? I've also encountered other issues, for example, using the installer to update afa... when the (Ken's) icons are installed in prefs/, all other icon data in the drawer becomes b0rked and changes to drawers. :/

[Damion]

@bernd

Thanks for explaining


@nostromo

How well will this thing run on an A4000T with Cyberstorm II 060/50, 32 megs of RAM and Picasso IV? I was thinking websites like amiga.org, not video streaming sites like youtube

To load hardforum.com is about 10-11 seconds from the time you hit "enter" in the address bar to the time the page shows up. Then maybe another 10 seconds until everything is done loading. Amiga.org takes a while longer.

While it has less features, 2.1 is a little faster.

Not something you'd want to use as your main browser on a real amiga, but it's fun, and still surprisingly usable given the hardware. Also, the difference between 50 and 66MHz is definitely noticeable.

[Damion]

incremental_reflow:1
min_reflow_period:500
max_fetchers:4
max_fetchers_per_host:4
max_cached_fetch_handles:4

Thanks, these settings made a *huge* difference here on my A2000/060. Loading amiga.org for example went from 45 seconds, down to 22-26 seconds.

[Damion]

incremental_reflow:0
min_reflow_period:1700
max_fetchers:12
max_fetchers_per_host:12
max_cached_fetch_handles:4

With these settings and the latest Netsurf, amiga.org is down to 20.3 seconds, fastest amigaworld was 16.2 (but usually takes longer). Lightweight sites like hardforum are roughly 10-13 seconds per page. Using Miami here.

I get now confirm at amigaworld.net that when set the workbench to a rgb16 mode and not to rgb 16 PC, netsurf scroll too in 2 sec on a classic system.

I'm also using a PIV and have the slow scrolling problem. (Fullscreen 1024x768, fb_depth:16) According to scout, Netsurf always picks the "PC" mode even though non-PC modes are available and working. Is there any other way to force Netsurf to use a particular screenmode/modeid?

[Damion]

you can maybe try a screenmode Promoter to choose a non PC 16 bit mode.but make sure that you dont change the depth and size of the promotet screen.

but anyway when i have time, i look wy it is so slow.when scroll there need only 10% of the screen new draw and byteswap.the rest of the image can copy 10% up or down with GFX Card blitter

so its strange wy the wrong pixel Mode slow so much down

Thanks Bernd, I used modepro and was able to select the non-PC mode. However, strangely the scrolling is equally slow in PC or non-PC modes, either window or fullscreen.

[Damion]

maybe you look in scout at the screen and screenmode ID, if thats really a rgb16 screen and no rgb16 PC.

I checked with scout, and it does use the rgb16 mode.

or the P4 do not support this really and work in both modes same.

I think you are right, or maybe the rgb16 modes don't work correctly. For example - when I run powericons in rgb16 PC, everything is OK. If I select rgb16, the icons are trashed for some reason.

what do you use P96 or CGX ?

P96.

[Damion]

@Damion & Bernd
 
When I set the screenmode to a non-pc mode and use a netsurf-window of 800x600, scrolling of amigaworld.net takes 2-3 seconds.

Tried that here and got the same result - 800x600 rgb16 screen with an 800x600 window has much faster scrolling. Strangely, scrolling is slow with any other screenmode (fullscreen or window), including 1024x768 w/an 800x600 window, or even plain 800x600 rgb16 fullscreen.

[Damion]

Bummer, the slow scrolling issue seems (at least partially) to be a bug in P96 with the PIV.

A little weird to explain, but I'll do my best.

If you boot WB using a 1024x768x16 screenmode, and run p96speed using the same mode, you'll get very slow results in the following tests:

BlitBitMap()  
BlitBitMapRastPort()

Between about 400 and 800 in each test.

However, if you start WB in 800x600, then start p96speed and select the 1024x768x16 test screenmode, everything changes. Here on my A2000:

BlitBitMap() - 5660
BlitBitMapRastPort() - 5256

It's the same with Netsurf. If you change screenmodes a few times, eventually the 1024x768x16 mode will start "working" correctly, and Netsurf scrolling will be fast - but only with an 800x600 window. If your screen is 1024x768 from boot, Netsurf will scroll very slowly.

The problem is still there even with a clean 3.1 install and old p96 drivers... (however, I was able to cure the icon trashing problem mentioned in an earlier post, by switching to an earlier version of rtg.library). I'll try with cgx soon and see what happens.

Hope that made sense. :/

[Damion]

Hi Bernd,

>If your screen is 1024x768 from boot, Netsurf will scroll very slowly.

I think the problem is the 4 megabyte GFX Mem only.SDL need a mirror map that is on GFX Card.

1024*768 are 1,6 megabyte of GFX ram.
this mirror map is used so a scroll work well when the netsurf window is partly cover by other windows.

if you open a WB then you need too 1,6 megabyte GFX Ram.so you need 3,2 megabyte of GFX RAM.that can all run well but....

Have you background images that need lots of RAM ?

If you have a background image that is show in this 1024*768 size, need too 1,6 megabyte of GFX RAM.and thats too much.and when you load another wb lister background thats again 1,6 megabytes.

maybe you use only small tiles instead of a full picture as background, this can save you lots mem.maybe this help also that the p96speed benchmark run always fast.when teh bench run slow, then P96 begin to move out GFX data to amiga ram or do not alow malloc of data in GFX Card ram and then its go slow

Thanks Bernd, seems you are correct.

If I start with a 1024x768 rgb16 screenmode with no background and close all windows, I can open Netsurf in a 1024x768 window, and scrolling is much faster.

The two blitting operations in p96speed are still slow, no matter what, unless I boot in a different screenmode, or switching between modes sometimes "fixes" it. (Same results as selecting "NoBlitter=No", but of course all tests are slowed down then as well.) However, this seems to just be the effect of running low on VRAM. This also explains why the slow blit ops are twice as fast (but still slow) on the A3000/PIV, because the data is being copied across a faster bus.

Thanks again for explaining, and helping to get this figured out.

[Damion]

>Same results as selecting "NoBlitter=No

this is the setting that should use and then Hardware Blit work.

when set  NoBlitter=YES then the P96 bitblit test should go slow.

Oops! Sorry, I meant that the 2 p96speed slow blit ops are excactly as slow if I set NoBlitter=Yes, meaning that when it's goofing off, the blitter isn't being used on these 2 (while the rest work OK). Naturally, NoBlitter=No is normally set.

On my a4000 I bootup with a 1024x768x16 screenmode.

When I run the blitbitmap tests I get:
BlitBitMap() - 5415
BlitBitMapRastPort() - 4540

Thanks for checking. I have to "reset" the screen first (like changing fonts, etc) to get the faster numbers. I gave up tracking it down for now... tried just about everything. I don't think it's affecting anything else, or related to the slow scrolling problem after all - I can confirm a 1024x768x16 Netsurf window will scroll quickly, if enough VRAM is free.

BTW - using MuRedox here. I can't detect a speed improvement either, but it's definitely doing something.

Typical "MuRedox SHOWPATCHEDINSTRS" output while running Netsurf (which might as well be Chinese to me):

04f228cc :  4c3c 2401 0000 0000        mulu.l #$0,d1:d2 ;extended opcode

04f228cc :  4c3c 6c04 0000 0000        muls.l #$0,d4:d6 ;extended opcode

04f228cc :  4c3c 1403 0000 0000        mulu.l #$0,d3:d1 ;extended opcode

04f228cc :  4c3c 5c01 0000 0000        muls.l #$0,d1:d5 ;extended opcode

04f228cc :  4c3c 1c03 0000 0000        muls.l #$0,d3:d1 ;extended opcode

04f228cc :  4c12 3c00                  muls.l (a2),d0:d3 ;extended opcode

etc

I agree that ISP and location matters. On rare occasions, amigaworld will load in under 20 seconds, while usually it's 25-35s. Fastest amiga.org was 19.8s.

[Damion]

@ami stuff

Sorry for hijacking the thread, but could you please run FFplay_060fpu from the Aminet (with some random mpg and avi file) and see if MuRedox outputs any unsupported instructions?

Ran the latest aminet ffplay_060fpu, no hits whatsoever with muredox.