Amiga workbench

[Darrin]

I was just thinking to myself how silly it is that people who create patched Workbench installs or even Emergency Install disks cannot actually include the Workbench files and you have to run a program to copy files from your own Workbench disks.

When I think back to early days of the Amiga, most software on floppies actually contained Workbench (or at least a cut-down version of it) and when you inserted the disk you booted to Workbench and then ran the program by double clicking on it.  Software like Pen Pal and GFA Basic had pretty much everything you needed (Prefs, fonts, etc) included on the disks.

So, were these software companies paying Commodore to include Workbench on their floppies or didn't Commodore care and just expected people to use Workbench as necessary to get their software onto the market to increase the user-base?

If this was the case, when did it start becoming "naughty" to include Workbench files on your own disks?

[Darrin]

Nah... on OS1.3 and 2.x as far as I remember basic functions like Dir, Copy etc... were on the floppy and not in the ROMS...

Darrins right, tons of commercial software came with such files (ie:part of WorkBench including libraries) on them and no-one ever complained back then even when Commodore was still alive. I think these days it's just down to armchair copyright lawyer wannabes trying to find something to moan about...

Look's like this thread could be another long drawn out affair on the subject of copyright so methinks I'll just bow out now and say... I don't care anymore...

That's my thoughts exactly.  I owned several disks that booted into what appeared to be WB1.3, but how did the distributer know that you owned your own copy of WB1.3 and that your Amiga didn't come with WB1.2?  If your machine did come with WB1.2 then should you be able to run the software?!  :eek:

Now, I remember KS2.x ROMS being sold with WB2.x (I upgraded my A2000 that way), but if someone like Bloodwych makes a Classic Workbench 3.x distro then it is bloody obvious to everybody that the only people who are going to download and install it already have KS3.x ROMS and almost guaranteed to have the Workbench 3.x disks.

I understand that OS3.5 and OS3.9 are products made by a another company and are still being sold (new old stock?), but why the hell can't the files on WB3.0 or WB3.1 just be handed out for free?

Let's face it, we should be able to release our own Workbench 3.2 set of disks that allows people to install a modern Workbench onto a hard drive as simply as installing WB3.1.

[Darrin]

http://ftp.back2roots.org/padua/text/CATS-Materials

Interesting.  So if we all chip in and raise $100 we can distribute as many OS3.2 disks as we like as long as we include some tiny program on it and claim to be distrubuting the program, rather than Workbench?

Seems like a winner!  

[Darrin]

Come on Darrin, you already know the reason. AInc claims to be to owner of OS3.1 and both AInc and Hyperion claim that only Hyperion is licensed to create derivatives of it (so no 3.2).

I thought Hyperion's license was for Next Gen OS4.x and not revamped Classic Workbench running on 680x0 machines.

[Darrin]

This actually takes me back to the 90's and I'm thinking of CUCD's and AFCD's (Amiga Format & CU Amiga).  They were bootable and contained Workbench in its entirety from what I can remember.  From memory, you could create a whole Workbech 3.1 system if you wanted to...and that's one way I upgraded my Workbench files - I just copied later versions of libraries and other system files from CU Cd's over to my 3.0 system to upgrade it.  I'm sure I wasn't alone in doing that.
I wonder if those magazines had to foot the bill to do this?  After all, CBM was history and it was Escom, then GW2000.  If it was only $100 per year back in 1992, I think that would make it $200 x 12 months probably for a new release each month back in mid-late 90's of the cover cd's.  Still peanuts though for what it is, I mean they gave away Workbench3.1 every month!
It would be interesting to know what indeed those magazines had to pay for the license.  If anything, because if you think about it - there was never a need to have a bootable cd, let alone including Workbench3.1...
Yes, there were CD32 owners, but serious users would have bought a computer with a keyboard if they wanted to use utilities and the like from magazine cover cd's.

Damn, I forgot about those cover CDs.  You're quite right that effectively WB3.1 was being handed out every month at the newsagent to anyone who bought a cheap computer magazine.  You didn't even need to own an Amiga.

I'm pretty sure some magazines even included "Relokick" (I think that is what is was called) which means they were effectively giving away Kickstart 1.3 too.  

[Darrin]

My 2 cents:

If you just take a peek at the last two or three Amiga Format coverdisk CD-Roms, you will find a fully legal set of Workbench 3.0 floppy images, authorized by uncle Petro for free distribution and use.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from Amiga Format CD #51:  AFCD51/+System+/Tools/Workbench/Workbench 3.x/AF_Readme

Here are the DMS archives for the complete Workbench 3.0, in case you haven't
got an install disk, or you corrupt your originals. We can't put later versions
on because we'd need a licence to do so, but Petro Tyschtschenko has given us
permission to include this version of AmigaOS on all AFCDs from now on.

To extract the files, simply have a stack of six disks at the ready for
insertion into df0: (or whichever drive you've set up in AFCDPrefs) and then
double click on the DMS archive icons.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Files on Amiga Format CD #51:  AFCD51/+System+/Tools/Workbench/Workbench 3.x/

Install.dms
Workbench.dms
Locale.dms
Fonts.dms
Extras.dms
Storage.dms
OS3.1_BoingBag1.lzx
AF_Readme

Holy crap!  So Petro actually gave OS 3.0 to the Amiga community!  What a guy!

[Darrin]

@PanterHZ

Interesting stuff.  Thanks.

Now, here's a question for CLOANTO if they're readying this thread.  Why not update their distributions and include the following and make everyone happy (and boost their sales):

#1:  An easy way to use Amiga Explorer to transfer a version of the WB3.x environment from the PC to a real Amiga via a serial cable.

#2:  An easy way to make a boot floppy from an ADF that will allow a real Amiga to install their WB3.x environment from their CD.

#3:  HDF images of their WB3.x environment which can be used on UAE and also happen to work on FPGA type "Amigas" such as the FPGA Arcade or a 68000 friendly version for the Minimig v1.1.

If we had something like that then nobody would need pirate disks and they could use Amiga Forever on real Amigas with ease.

Come on Cloanto, can you do it and if not, why not?

[Darrin]

My guess would be time/money. I don't know if you've read the interview in the latest Amiga Future, but they imply that their business development is in effect subsidizing their AmigaForever development, which wouldn't exactly surprise me.

I'll send them a CD with Bloodwych's ClassicWorkbench 68000 and Classic Workbench AGA already set up on HDF files and ready to run if they want.  All they need to do is include them on their next CD and write two configuration scripts called "Minimig v1.1" for an ECS Amiga with 3.5MB of RAM and a 68000 CPU, and "FPGA Aarcde" using a 68020.  That should take care of any legal issues.

[Darrin]

As you may have read in other threads by now, because they do not have a license.  The ROMs and Disks on Amiga Forever are only licensed to them for the emulator and not for hardware.

http://www.amigaforever.com/kb/13-145

That means all this time, people saying stop being cheap ass pirates and just buy Amiga Forever if you lost your disks and need to get new ones have been actually telling you to break the law.

Using Amiga Forever to get disks for your real Amiga is ILLEGAL.

OK, but they can still have workable HDFs to be used by WinUAE configurations.  It wouldn't be their fault if they worked on real Amigas too.

I don't know if you're aware of this, but WinUAE actually emulates "real Amigas".  Cloanto's early stuff could be simply copied onto a hard drive and run.  Their WB3.x buggers things up because of the way they've configured it.