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Author Topic: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo  (Read 15145 times)

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Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« on: March 27, 2007, 10:19:23 PM »
Ok.  Here's the deal.  A friend and I were attempting to help staff members at a local church to handle some of their periodic computer tasks like updating member information in a database, retrieve mailing lists, etc.  Their system was set up by a man who recently passed away.  Now my friend and I are Windows geeks but not Amiga geeks.  Perhaps after this, we don't even qualify as geeks any more.  Feel free to laugh at our expense (we deserve it).  But please give us a hand if you are able.

One of the tasks was very simple...format a floppy.  WooHoo, I thought.  This is an easy one.  We located a formating utility and perused the options.  I thought that what was listed was a set of possible floppy disk sizes DH0 was 880K (which size I had never heard of), DH1 was 120M, and DH2 was 120M.  There were others but I forget now what they were named.

I thought that since there was no such thing (according to me) as an 880K floppy that it must have been referring to a 720K disk.  Likewise, I figured 120M was supposed to be 1.2M but was just missing the period and was a bit off from the standard 1.44 IBM floppy.  Yes, I know.  It sounds dumb to us now too.  But it seemed logical at the moment.  We opted to format DH2.  When we noted that the HD activity light was blinking instead of the floppy, we knew we were morons and hit Cancel or Stop.

Now, upon reboot, we noticed that several icons that were previously on the desktop (workbench?) were now missing.  One was named Main.  Not surprisingly the previously pleased church staff commented that this and that was missing and would no longer function.

There are regular backups that are done...weekly.  But since we don't know squat about Amiga, we really aren't sure if only the data is archived or if the data and the applications are backed up.  However, we did notice that an app called Calculator was within this backup folder (drawer?).  To us, many of the other file names seem very generic...like census, payroll, etc.  But now having seen calculator, we are wondering (and hoping) that these are entire directories or even just pre-named archives that include the applications themselves.

Another glimmer of hope is that there is another Amiga on site that has a duplicate application set.  The only difference is the data generated or stored with them.  So between the two computers, we do have all the needed applications and the data in backup form.

All that said (and humbly confessed) we do not know where to go from here and are quite gun shy after botching such a simple operation as formatting a floppy.  If it were a Windows machine, I would reinstall the software and import all the backup data (all database, text, and created art).  But we're really struggling with some of the terminology.  For instance we looked for anything called RESTORE or RECOVER.

Any recommendations on our next steps...outside of skipping town and admitting defeat, of course.

Is there a standard restore type application that would handle any existing backups?  Or would those be application specific?

How about transferring apps from one Amiga to the other?  Is that as simple as the old DOS (pre-Windows Registry days) where you just copy directories onto a floppy and then copy over the whole directories?

Any help is greatly appreciated. (and laughter is completely understood)

Sincerely,
James Senick (not my real name to protect the rep I once enjoyed)
 

Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Re: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2007, 10:24:31 PM »
it was a slow format
 

Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Re: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2007, 10:27:47 PM »
Cool.  We saw a floppy with that name in house today.  So, perhaps there is hope?
Thanks you both, BTW
 

Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Re: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2007, 10:30:59 PM »
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For future ref...
DF0: (ZERO) means Drive Floppy Zero (you can have more than one and Zero is internal/primary)

DH0: Have a guess!!

No, I dont know why they named it arse about face for either.

Oh... good news...

There's NO registry on an amiga. Just drag the bugger back.


Great!  Thank you.

Are there common extensions for applications versus data files...like exe or com versus txt and doc?
 

Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Re: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2007, 02:58:10 AM »
ok, I think our first plan of attack then will be to try to use the quarterback utility app mentioned.  If this does not work, we will try to restore the backup files that we saw that are still present.  We weren't really sure today how to take that backup path and place it in the partition that we formatted.  Any advice on this would be appreciated.  Also in the backup location that they showed us, it wasn't clear to us if this was backups of just the program files or the data as well.  

When we first try the quarterback utilyity app how do we use it?  Is it fairly intuitive with windows like prompts and menus or is it all command based?  Also, from the posts everyone made, it is not clear to me if this problem should be something that we can expect to be resolved with this quarterback retrieval program or not.  A few of the early responses made it sound like this should be farily easy to retrieve but then some of the later posts made it sound like we may be screwed.  What gives?
 

Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Re: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2007, 03:00:12 AM »
we are in Jamestown, Ny in the US.  Close to buffalo, NY.
 

Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Re: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2007, 03:31:20 AM »
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I've never known anyone to say that Quarterback did undelete stuff. I'd recommend trying to undelete the files with DiskSalv before making it worse by copying files onto the formatted drive. You can at least see the files there were on there (assuming the format wasn't really really effective) before trying to copy them back from the backups. If you don't have them on the backups, then you can go ahead and undelete them.

Really, though, if you have the program disks handy, all you really need to restore are the files people made themselves.


Thanks for that.  I've been thinking along the same lines.  Once we copy anything back or re-create that partition all hopes for restoring files is lost, right?

If that's the case, the best option seems to be to try a restoration / recovery tool like DiskSalv first.  If that fails, then we should move to copying back over the applications from their disks or from the second cloned amiga and restoring the data from backup.

If that seems about right, the question becomes how do we get a copy of DiskSalv?  We're in a pretty small area with little to no chance of finding any amiga apps for sale.  Buying them and waiting for shipping may be way too long since payroll data is needed this week.  Are these types of applications available as shareware anywhere?  And if so, is there is a simple method of buying and downloading via PC and then transferring them via floppy to the Amiga?  We may be dealing with a location that has no Internet access at all.  If there is, we're fairly certain that it is limited to the PC.

BTW, we both thank you all for all the input and beginner type Amiga info.  For us, this is like getting in a car where the instruments are all in the trunk and laden with foreign symbols.  We really appreciate it...even the laughs.  We'll laugh with you someday.
 

Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Re: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 06:00:08 AM »
Again I appreciate everyone's feedback and interest.  I am going to try to answer as many questions as I can that have been asked.  But  I only saw the Amiga for about an hour and a half today.  A lot of what I saw meant little to me until now in retrospect.  Our original main goal was simply to help devise a new database query filter.  However, the 'issue' was raised that no one knew how to format floppies.  We didn't expect to botch such an easy task and thus took little notice or precaution of anything seemingly outside of this small simple task.  Actually our error was mostly in the fact that we somewhat dyslexically saw DH as HD...like high density.  Anyway, the rest is history.

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You said all the data was backed up weekly? To what? Using what? On the Amiga, while you can use a dedicated backup program, creating backups really is as simple as copying files to another device and then copying them back if the need arises.


The backups are done directly to the hard drive.  There are actually two backup drawers named BU1 and BU2.  There appears to be both files and at least some applications within these.  But like I said before, the names were very generic to us so we couldn't tell files from apps except obvious ones like Calculator.  The way I am figuring it is that if calculator was in a backup, what wouldn't be.

Outside the fact that the two staff members who use the Amiga know very little about the Amiga except for following routine steps, the man who set up their system clearly knew what he was doing and had been doing so for quite some time.

BTW, I do not know his name.  But if they allow me to, I will post it back here tomorrow.

As for their backup application...after reading this forum, I am assuming that it was Quarterback since that was present on the system's UI (is that Workbench?)  I didn't take much notice of it, or others named like it, since it was a name that seemed to have little to do with any procedure.  But we both recall seeing Quarterback both on the system itself and on floppies elsewhere in the building.

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Do you have access to the backed up files? It sounds like they're elsewhere on the hard drive.


That is correct.  We only found during the last minutes the "show all" option.  We found the upper menu on the UI by accident...holding a right-click.  But the number of files that we saw within one of the backup drawers was pretty small...perhaps 25 at the most.  Some of the backups are dated, however...like fileABC2001, fileABC2002, etc.  Yet, the size of the partition we hosed was only 39.6 megs.  So, perhaps we're still ok.

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Can you describe the now-missing Main icon? Was it a white rectangular box with a little checkmark in it? That indicates a hard drive partition. Amiga drives can be accessed by either their device name or their volume name.


I wish I could describe it.  There was just no reason to really take full visual inventory at the time when it was present.  But the one staff member said it was more of a graphical icon...like a custom icon from a manufacturer.  She said it looked like 'that one' where that one was a mnufacturer icon.  But honestly, I recall it as a pretty simple white box.  BTW, this was an Amiga 3000..not sure if there was a T after 3000 or not.
 
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It sounds like you formatted device DH2: which had the volume name of Main.


That is my feeling as well.  Compared to what I've seen as far as Amiga UI screenshots tonight on the Web, the Main thing seemed like the Work drawer / directory I've seen.  Just a gut feeling based on a whole slew of things I can't really explain without the right Amiga terms.

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Did anything else disappear from the desktop (we call it Workbench)? Those were probably files or programs on DH2: that had been "left out" for faster access. Formatting their home caused them to disappear.


There were definitely other items previously on the desktop that are no longer there.  But not many.  I'd guess at 5 being the most but I'm thinking it's really like 2-3.  One I know of for certain was DH0???? that I first took to be a query of some sort.  So, that one and Main make two.  At most there were three other items.  But I strongly feel it was more like 1 if any.

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It's also possible that Main was a drawer somewhere on DH2: that had been left out, in which case we still need to discover what volume name DH2: corresponded to.


Understood.  I really think Main was volume.  Again I am basing this on little true knowledge except the fact that the setup seemed very organized yet simple.  Outside of the obvious remaining utility icons, they are all task related and named accordingly.

I know I've left a few questions unanswered.  But I will do my best to answer everything after I've had another look.

Oh...the other machine...as I understand it, it is a clone that existed as a backup machine.  Apparently it was updated periodically.  The last time it was updated was shortly before the man passed away which was about 3 months ago.

To me this would mean that the apps are all accessible.  Since the data is most certainly backed up to machine #1's hard drive, we're only going to miss a couple of days worth of data.  But according to staff members, such a thing would be very problematic.  But who wouldn't say that?

The thing that concerns me along these lines is that when we've tried to open a few of the backup files, an error was presented that said something like \main\xyz could not be found.  This leads me to believe that:

A) there are database queries where paths are hardcoded
B) the directory structure of the hosed partition will have to be exactly recreated.

Is it possible to do something as simple as copying DH2 from Amiga #2 to Amiga #1?

If so, from there we'd only have to copy back the backup files, right?

I'd prefer to exhaust all recovery methods first.  More clearly, I'd like to not get into another situation where we have to say 'if only I would have tried that before this method which now makes that impossible'.  Then again, we're kind of already in that position, aren't we.

Thanks again everyone.
 
 

Offline RoseDreamJTopic starter

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Re: Non-Amiga geeks make a boo boo
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 06:20:40 AM »
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No, seriously. Tell me, does a quick 'dir dh0:' work exactly as you'd expect on a Windows machine or not?

It's bloody alarming to me that anyone who postures as a "windows geek", implying that they're a computing expert, would make the string of guesses and assumptions that he did and decide that it was better to format a random device and see which LED starts to flicker than to double-check or (god forbid) read the manual.


For the record, I wouldn't expect 'a quick dir dh0' to do anything unless I wanted a directory listing of the contents of a directory named dh0.

There was no reason for me to understand dh2 as a device.  Even Commodore 64 had drives A, B, and C.  Before today, there was simply no reason for me to understand there to be other device naming conventions.  Also, the format icon seemed to graphically indicate it was a floppy formatting utility. As with any other formatting utility, I very quickly and erroneously understood these to be formatting options...as in format to this file system and disk size.  Also, I didn't exactly say 'gee, let's just pick that one and see which LED blinks' as you suggest.  I merely mentioned the LED as the trigger behind the realization that I had erred and erred badly.

I fully deserve to be laughed at.  I've already laughed at myself plenty.  But painting me as a complete dolt might be a bit of a stretch.  But thanks for your input just the same.