Interview with Trevor Dickinson

[ffastback]

Yeah.

For $200,000.00 though Trevor could have bought 1000 of these motherboard/CPU combos for $89 each.  
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5567179&Sku=B69-4062

Given those 1000 boards for FREE to pretty much every member left in the Amiga community when they buy a copy of OS4.  He'd still have $110,000.00 left over just to give to Hyperion.

Hyperion gets $120,000 free + $160,000 in OS4 sales for a total of $280,000.00


But then we'd have 1000 active Amiga users running modern hardware.  Hyperion would then be selling their $160 OS with an $89 dongle instead of a $2000 one.  


No, I think the $200,000.00 is better spent to get Hyperion to waste another year of their time porting the OS to X1000 so 12 people already using OS4 can now run it on 4 year old hardware instead of 8 year old hardware.

And what does A-Eon get out of your imaginary deal here?

And BTW its $245160 USD at current exchange rates.  The article said 200,000 EURO.

I think we all know A-Eon has about a snowball's chance in hell to "break even" on $245160 USD (and counting).  But whats the point about imagining about them giving the money away on purpose?

And why such a slave to the brand?  Run AROS if you want x86.

[ffastback]

I've always longed for native X86 AmigaOS.  AROS is a great step in that direction.  I just wish it had more official support and resources to move quicker on it's development.

If so many Amigans were not slaves to the brand AROS would be much more advanced by now.

[ffastback]

It's a massive shame that 200K GBP wasn't spent more wisely.

It is?  First, its 163,708 GBP at current exchange rates, as the article said EURO.

Second what value would there be for you in this if they did spend it more wisely?  If they did you'd have less to make fun of.

[ffastback]

 What makes you think he's a slave to the brand ... just because he thinks A-eon has a crap business model? ...

It would rationally explain his fixation.  We can all see A-eon has a crap business model.

[ffastback]

Who is "we" in we can all. Personally I think the whole idea is lunacy, but there seems to be some in this community who believe it is sensible including A-EON/Hyperion themselves. Why would a company pursue a "crap business model"?

I'd equate "we" to most, if not almost all community members.  Its just my humble opinion.  I'd guess that even most interested in buying the machine would see the business model as rather nuts.

Why would a company pursue such?  Trevor is quoted in the article as saying he'd be happy to break even.  To me that says this company is more a vehicle for him to pursue a passion then it is truly a business.  Its his money and I certainly don't fault him for risking it to try to benefit the community.

[ffastback]

They may very well break even on just 500 or so machines if the machine itself is profitable.

Andy

Do you really even see a market for 500 machines though?  Personally I think that is a stretch.

[ffastback]

I'll bite - how does producing a dead-end system like the X1000 benefit the community, and which community are you talking about anyway?

Its a hobby community jorkany.  More choices within a hobby are usually beneficial, it gives people another way to explore their hobby, assuming they can afford it.

Sure, if your goal is for "Amiga" to transition from a group of hobby systems and into a competitive role with other computing platforms as actual working platforms then anything taking people away from AROS on any level is bad news.  Realistically though people in general are entrenched and are not going to unite under AROS.  And so the X1000 is another option for hobbyists to play at their hobby.  How can that be bad?

[ffastback]

I'm guessing they'll sell 100 tops, probably half that. I've heard a lot of dyed in the wool AOS4 users balking about the price. That's a bad sign.

Its a bad sign for Trevor sure.  If that happens he won't break even, which is his hope.  Does it mean he was foolish to even try?  I guess that depends on how much 200,000 EUR is to him and how important a dream this was for him to see this machine even made.

[ffastback]

Seems pretty foolish to me. Most folks I've known who had money like that to toss around didn't get there by making stupid investments.

Is it foolish to wager 10,000 USD on a single roulette bet?  If you are the average person yes, for two reasons.  #1 the odds were against you, #2 because you could not afford it.

Is it foolish for Bill Gates to do the same thing?  Sure, #1 still applies, but if you are Bill Gates and thats what gave him some brief enjoyment labeling him "foolish" in such a circumstance is really not a accurate label.  

None of us know how much 200,000 EUR is to Trevor in his world and his life.  Assuming for a second he did not inherit his money one can probably be pretty safe in assuming he is either of at least decent intelligence and/or he had luck with him in life.  Telling an interviewer straight up "I'll be happy if we break even" and telling them that Amiga has been an obsession in his life (he said he has over 150 in his basement if memory serves) seems to suggest he had 200,000 EUR he was willing to risk for a dream and that he is at least realistic enough to not expect a profit.  Frankly I think he should expect a sizable loss.  But it seems that his dream may have blinded him a bit.  But so what?  Its his 200,000 EUR and its his dream.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a computer costing over 2000 dollars running AOS 4 on yesterdays tech with an out of production processor isn't going to be profitable nor is it something that's going to "carry the platform forward".

It also does not take a genius to know that AmigaOS does not take the same resources to run in a snappy fashion as many other operating systems do.  And it does not take much to "carry the platform forward" when the "platform" is a hobby OS for a very small group of enthusiasts.  Measuring success in the way you might measure success for Windows is lunacy.  Sure, some find it amusing to do so in order to troll, but its ridiculous on its face.

The whole idea of "trying" doesn't impress me, all kinds of idiots try all kinds of ridiculous things and loose their shirts in the process. They're fools. The folks at A-Eon are a little bit more than fools though, -MODERATED-.

Its their shirts to lose and without either of us knowing Trevor's finances in total we have no way of knowing if this will devastate his financial life or be a small blip, or anything in between.  And on what basis do you say Trevor is a criminal (or that there is the "hint" that he is one)?

Their bizarre marketing scheme was designed to appeal to suckers in the community who don't know jack about hardware or software design and development.

I have not seen anyone suckered.  It seems many that are interested want bragging rights for the most powerful AmigaOne hardware ever.  If they think thats worth over 1500 GBP God Bless!  Others hope their support will encourage development of 64 bit and multi-core support some day and are willing to pay a hefty premium to assist in that goal.  Others heard of the video playback issues with some SAMs and want to make sure to avoid all that with better speced hardware.  Some might even be speculating that this machine will become a collector's item that they could turn into a quick profit in a year or two.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven and I can't wait to see it wrapped in a plastic bag and tossed in a compactor.

How does this "stink to high heaven" and "hint of criminality" when you say they are certain to suffer a horrible loss as a business?  If the goal was to rip off people they have a very poor gameplan.

[ffastback]

Ever hear of the guy in the desert?  He is on the edge of death from lack of water.  He comes to find a deserted well.  There is a bottle of water at the well and a note.  It's says the well has plenty of water, but in order to get the pump to work you need to prime it by poring the bottle of water into it to get it started.

So the guy is holding a bottle of water in his hand.  Does he trust the note?  

Drink the water or prime the pump?


Problem with drinking the water is you might feel good for a an hour our two, but then you are going to die.  If he primes the pumper, maybe the note was wrong and the well is dried up in which case he dies anyway.  But at least he has a chance of getting all the water he could need.


That's how I see the X1000.  Hyperion has a small amount of resources. (The bottle of water).   Do they take the short road and spend those resources on the X1000 knowing it might bring them temporary sells of 50 boards?  Or do the prime the pump(port to X86) finally, where, once ported they are no longer anchored down to $800+ boards.  They have all the cheap hardware they choose to port to.

Which is better for the community?

I'm already not anchored down to $800+ boards for this hobby, neither is the community.  Its called iMica.  If someone is tethered to it having to be branded "AmigaOS" to use it, well thats their problem.

I personally get a kick out of funky hardware.  My used G3 Peg II was not intrinsically worth the $500 I paid for it.  But I enjoy having it to play around with two hobby operating systems, MorphOS, and AOS.

Hyperion has been quite clear in its attitude that they don't give a crap about going to x86, no matter how many people ask for it.  Thats their choice, its their business.  If they are happier servicing folks willing to spend premiums on PPC hardware thats up to them.

What you should be asking yourself is not why Hyperion won't do what you want, but rather why does the community not en masse support the option already there for x86.

[ffastback]

So what was their point in investing that type of money for mobo sales in the triple digits with low triple digit sales likely?

I think Trevor has been pretty upfront.  He wants a true desktop machine that can get the brand name AmigaOne on it.  If he breaks even he will be happy, if he does not at least he achieved his dream.

[ffastback]

Is sure not being hyped as a hobby.

How do you figure?  There are no illusions to the limitations of AOS 4.x.  There are no illusions about the available applications.  And who is really listening but hobbyists?  And even if a non-hobbyist heard of the machine none would ever spend such money.  The specs and limited OS support for the machine, where the OS does not even support the hardware fully is of no use to a non-hobbyist.

[ffastback]

My post is referring to OS4 though.  I think AROS is in good shape.   Personally I think all that is said about not going to x86 for OS4 applies to MorphOS as well.  Though between their current choices of OS4 using custom hardware and MorphOS reusing old MAC hardware, I think the MorphOS is a better short term solutions out of those two.  However, I think they both need to move to x86.

They both "need" to move to x86 to achieve what exactly?  Non-hobby OS status?  There would be plenty of work required beyond the x86 porting to do for that to happen.  If a company tells you to (effectively) go screw on what you want its rational to move on.  Bitching and grumbling for a limited amount of time is acceptable, its called "potential customer feedback".  Bitching for years and trying to undermine what that company is trying to do, even if you think its tremendously stupid only makes you look like Glenn Close in "Fatal Attraction".  Look at it this way, AROS is progressing a lot more lately.  The more people Hyperion scare away, force away, whatever the better it is for AROS.

[ffastback]

Crap sales hurt everyone, their best dream machine comes down in flaming wreckage is going to demoralize everyone.

Come now, many of the Moo Bunny regulars will squeal in delight, or at the least be pleasantly amused.  You hang out there often, so you should be very aware of this.

If he and his partner were going to spend that type of cash, why not on something that would generate sales of units in at least 4 digits?

Isn't it obvious that Trevor had built what his dream of an Amiga is?  Or at least the best approximation he could muster?  Is there any indication that he would have rather had 1000 units sold of something that was not his dream instead of 250 of what is his dream box?  I have not seen any indication of that.  In fact he has mentioned SAM multiple times for the explicit reason that he considers them fulfilling the less expensive box.  Its pretty obvious that he is not interested in making a $300 unit that they could sell much more of that would come in at a price point under SAM.

What I don't get why he even bothered with the configuration of the A1X1K since it's a white elephant at best because of multiple marketing issues

It appears he was partially blinded by a dream.  He'll almost certainly lose money on this.  What's really to get beyond that?  Does Ben have a different intention?  Quite possibly.

Lots of sales benefit everyone in the A-EON/Hyerion/OS4 community.

True, but that is not Trevor's responsibility, nor is it A-EON's.  Its Hyperion's.  If they can't encourage Acube to make the entry level $300 box then they should look elsewhere, thats assuming its even monetarily feasible.  There is no guarantee someone would make back their money on such a box.  

Lets look at another real world example, should Tesla Motors be looking to make an electric car more like the small hybrids of late or what they are instead making (a big 4 door sedan).  Well to make money better they should be making the smaller cars.  But they don't want or desire to do that.  They want to be the company of "High Performance Electric Vehicles".  Right now A-Eon is looking to be the "high end Amiga workstation company".  Is that silly, a mistake, etc?  Yep most likely.  But there is no need or reason to demonize them for it either.  If Trevor had not been motivated by this dream what really would the difference be for the community.  Lots of folks would be bitching the SAM 460 is too expensive instead, when what they really all should probably be doing is buying an iMica (IMHO).

[ffastback]

Huh? What does that have to do with the price of milk? I doubt many "would squeal with delight". I'd think the only amusement would be validitation of what appeared obvious, despite getting slammed for stating what appeared obvious. See Dammy getting blasted for suggesting the X1000 would be a developer box, about a month before A-Eon announced it would be a developer box.
 
-edit-
Unless of course you are referencing the idiots who post trolling nonsense using anonymous proxies on Moob. Their posts are worthless and Moob regulars usually ignore them. Most of the over the top nonsense lately is probably one individual with some sort of serious personality disorder and repressed sexuality.

A-Eon has never announced the X1000 as a developer box that I have seen.  Can you show me a link?  Lets speak in terms of reality ok?  There is no sizeable OS 4 market.  There is no meaningful money in software development for OS 4.  The OS uses none of the new hardware features the board offers.  A developer system for OS4, that would be something like a PPC based Beagle Board, not a 1500+GBP machine.  And before you elude to the beta program meaning thats "developers" they are looking for end users to be beta testers.  Sure some of them maybe know some programing by happenstance.  But if jahc waits to get his X1000 until after the beta will that make the X1000s sold post-beta "developer boxes" too.  Thats just plain silly.  Its not logic being applied here to come up with that label.  That label came from Dammy trying to put a spin on what the machine is.  Hell, I agree the public beta that you have to *pay* to be in is ridiculous, but so is calling it a developer box.  Again, if A-Eon called it that and I missed it, just provide a link.

And on the subject of Moo Bunny, are you really willing to think that many of the Moo Bunny regulars who post (not with proxies) are not enjoying themselves ragging on A-Eon every day?  You think its not a fun game to them?  The bigger and more frequent A-Eon's failures the more well received will be the news and the more ravenous to tear A-Eon apart is how things will play out there.  Sure maybe Ben is an a-hole that deserves nothing less.  I was not around at the time but I know he upset a ton of people.  But does Trevor really deserve such from people who are supposed to be grown men.  Hmm, probably not.