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Author Topic: Flaky software could crash your car  (Read 8072 times)

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Offline Waccoon

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« on: January 19, 2004, 07:46:34 PM »
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Flaky software could crash your car

I doubt it will come to that.  The basic functions of a car are very well established.  People cause a million times more accidents every year from sheer neglect.

My concern is that people will become so confident in the performance of their cars, that they take the car to the limit.  If the car yaws, traction control kicks in to correct the angle.  If traction control fails, the car will spin.  The result?  Oh, don't blame the driver for acting like a maniac -- blame the software!

As for things like the radio and A/C, well, those are hardly critical systems.  The worst that can happen is that your wipers will engage unexpectedly and cause a distraction.  But, if that distraction is enough to cause a crash, you were probably driving too fast to begin with!

Only one thing prevents crashes:  SLOW DOWN.

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QNX Software Systems makes software for both. Bugs might present minor problems, but the Canadian company has found a way to keep devices from crashing completely, says product management director Sachin Lawande.

The key is to make software in a way that allows parts of the code to fail without crashing the whole system, Lawande said. Instead of trying to make an entire operating system work without a single bug - all but impossible, Lawande says - QNX concentrates on a tiny piece of code called a microkernel that must be foolproof.

But, people don't program like that.  Every module plugged into the kernel depends on some other module, and it's all tied together.  A microkernel approach may save some low-level processes from really screwing up (like the filesystem), but if one piece of the OS goes down, chances are the whole system will need to be restarted.

What happens if your graphic driver messes up and makes the screen go blank?  All most people can do is reach for the reset button.

Microkernel architecture makes it easier to discover and trace bugs, but I doubt it really improves reliability.  Besides, the only thing that runs in kernel space these days are drivers, and they have to run very fast and are typically impractical or difficult to run in user space.  I wouldn't be surprised if memory protected drivers are less reliable than kernel drivers, simply because all the extra hoops you need to jump through increases complexity.

Besides, most bugs these days don't cause the system to crash... they cause unexpeted behavior.  If menus disappear randomly, is that going to cause a fault that will let the OS know something went wrong, or will it just be "one of those things"?

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Outside of the microkernel, "any piece of code cannot be trusted not to fail", Lawande says. Glitches might happen, but they'll be non-fatal errors easily caught in testing, he says.

Provided they test properly and adequately.  Low-level components of operating systems are usually very clean, simple, and compact.  It's the development tools you have to worry about.

Yeah, load up a 2Meg library and only use 2% of its capabilities.  Why not use a smaller, more specific library?  Too much trouble.

Linux is bombproof, but man, the KDE desktop is provoking me to put my fist throught the monitor.  I can't believe people bitch about Windows when Linux desktops are just as slow, inefficient, and full of bugs!  Think the Windows System32 folder is a mess?  Why not take a look at /usr/bin or /etc!  Thousands of files, names that don't make sense, manuals, libraries, and config files scattered all over the place... yeah, that looks much better.

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Testing is part of the problem, says Humphrey of Carnegie-Mellon. Software makers test their products based on their assumptions of how the products will be used, he says. Bugs happen when software is asked to do something programmers didn't see coming.

Programmers and engineers are still asked to do things they either hate doing, or lack appropriate skills.  Products are developed, debugged by more engineers, and sent over to manufacturing without consulting people trained in usability testing.

If there's one word I can use to describe the computer industry, it is Impatience.

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The software industry, still about 40 to 50 years young, was built and pioneered by smart people who didn't follow the rules.

Early computers were purpose-built machines.  The people who made them only had to follow their own rules, because people who programmed servers and mainframes were the people who ran them.  Or, full-time technicians gave support 24/7.  People knew what the computer was supposed to do.

These days, computers are built to do any indiscriminate number of things, and cater to the preferences of millions of different people.  There's too much drive to make an all-in-one box that does everything adaquately and nothing very well.

It's about design, not technology.
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2004, 09:33:40 PM »
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True very scary thought its bad enough if your engine stops running while your moving if you have power steering its very hard to turn the wheel .

Welcome to the 1960's!  I can only imagine what it was like to drive a '49 Packard with no power steering or brakes.  :-)

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Blah blah 140 MPH blah...

People who drive 140 MPH usually have good cars and know how to drive them.  Here in the USA, we have very few accidents on i495, which is a huge, smooth road 4-lanes wide.  There are rarely accidents not related to someone falling asleep at the wheel, DUI, or a blown tire...

...in downtown Bellingham, however, it's common for cars to jump the guardrails on the i495 exit, and people slam into trees frequently due to invisible gravel on the road.  I really pisses me off to see SUVs zoom through downtown at high speed because they have all wheel drive.  I don't suppose these people know basic math:  four wheels times zero traction equals zero traction.

(I own a Subaru, BTW, so I know all about AWD.  In fact, I had to push someone else's Impreza out of a snowbank, once!)

Next to the lumberyard, there is a 4-way intersection with no lights, where the legal speed limit is 30.  But, since it's a downhill road, people zoom through at 50+ MPH without even looking.  Naturally, we have several rollovers there every year.  The town won't install lights because there's hardly any traffic on that road, which, of course, makes people drive even faster.

If you want a good example of how speed kills, try driving through the raised highways of Providence, RI.  80+ MPH on a crumbling road two lanes wide.  Only New Jersey has worse drivers.  I went to a convention in Pennsylvania a few years ago, and I had to drive through NJ.  That was the first time I ever broke 100 MPH on a raised highway!  Of course, you either go with the flow or get run over.   :-o

I will never, ever go to NJ again!
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2004, 06:50:47 PM »
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What do you want, Mike, a cookie? Even RACE car drivers get into accidents and that's all they do is drive their cars, learning the 'ins and outs' of their machine. You think that 'cos you know your car, you're above the laws of the road and they don't pertain to you? Once again, you've proven my point that ignorance is what kills people. So since you 'know' your car, you feel that you can just 'whip' through traffic how you please??

Just because you know your car doesn't mean you're a good driver.  The best race drivers don't go fast, they drive consistently.  I know the limits of my car (at least now I do, since I recently upgraded my sway bars), and I know NOT to take the car to those limits.  They call it a "limit" for a reason.  :-)

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As an enthusiastic driver I cannot see how such an artificial steering system can duplicate the feel of a decent rack and pinion set up. It would be like playing Virtua Racer or something! Just how would such a system cope in event of the engine stalling?

You're right.  That new BMW with variable steering has been getting mixed reviews because it doesn't feel natural and in sync with the road.

Modern arcade racing games are crap.  I miss the heavy, stubborn feel of the Hard Drivin' steering wheel, which actually pulled in all directions depending on how the wheels allilgned with the road.  You had to have some muscle to drive that arcade game, especially the ####pit version!   :-D

What's even funnier is that all the physics were done by a 10Mhz 68010, while two other Texas Instruments CPUs rendered the polygons.  Today's arcade racing games might have quad MIPS CPUs and custom CGI boards, but have all the technical charm of a ferris wheel.

Hey, that's an idea...  require people to turn a few hot laps in Nascar Racing 4 using a custom engineered ####pit before they can get their license!  :-D

[EDIT]:  Whoa, I never knew "cockpit" was a swear word...

[EDIT, part deux]:  I never knew it isn't, provided you put it in quotes!  :-D
 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Flaky software could crash your car
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2004, 06:55:09 PM »
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I'm sticking with my original statement. Anyone doesing exactly 60 in a 60 zone is either a newbie or insecure. All experienced and confident drivers do slightly more, usually 65 or 70 in a 60 zone.

I don't suppose saving gas or cruisin' has anything to do with it?  That's why highways have more than one lane!

I drive 55 between a few exits, 75 over long distances, and 45 everywhere else.  Cops get suspicious if you drive too slow in my town.  :-)