Rebol for MorphOS

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@cecilia

What the heck??

My dog does doo doo's in my backyard and that's an event. It happened, it had consequenses, mainly I had to go scoop, but it prevented full use of the backyard.
I fail to see how intelegence or tallent is relevent in expressing what an event is.

Mind you some of those doo doo's had serious talent...... )

All I will say is, good on em, and whatever.

Maybe AI will incorperate their own thing. Who cares. As long as the OS does what YOU want it too, it's going to be just what you wanted.

I like how MOS get's all the AMIGA kudos though, and kudos to them

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@ cecilia
No, you were talking about what describes an event. I dissagree with that statement. It doesn't take intelligence to make an event, or a memorable one even.
Anyway, it's off topic.

@Targhan
I dunno, I suppose it's a good thing, it just seems that more and more MorphOS is aimed specificly at the AMIGA user and tries to take it's small userbase.  I'm sure they all thought about it for hours at end on the implications that may be made by marketing the OS as like an AMIGA type OS then brining into it the developers of the AMIGA OS etc...
Not a conspiricy theory, it seem quite plain to me. And fine if fighting for the AMIGA user base is what they want, they are doing a dandy job.

there is plenty of room for many opperating systems and it's AMIGA's history for people to try and bury it. I hope it survives this time. But I am pro AMIGA so I am biased. You may be pro MorphOs, as so on, and so forth.

To me Morph OS is more like AROS (Amiga Replacement Opperating System) than AROS is.

That's not a direct comparison mind you, I know they are completely different, but it seems the way morphOs is geared. Carl S. Geez.  Maybe we can port REBOL to OS4 too

I'm sure it's a great thing for Morph Os I agree. It's sort of an "In Your Face" to the AMIGA users though.

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@greenboy
I agree. Moving forward is productive, but before this turns into debate on which is better, the OS of the platform AMIGA has been moving forward, 1.0 1.2 2.0 2.1 3.0 3.1 3.5 3.9 and now 4.0 promised with new hardware base.

Even Microsoft is threatened my Linux.

It's not crazy or mean spirited to have a commmuninty of people passionate about their platform. If it wasn't for that passion, there would be no AMIGa or probabaly Morph OS either. So I don't see it as really a need for debate. It's a natural reaction for anyone defending something they have passion for.  
If I took Linus T from Linux over to Microsoft to help with development of the opperating system, do you think the Linux community would be happy? Do you think they would see that as a positive step perhaps?

If Morph OS is indeed there to migrate users over to a better platform, why are we divided? why is there need to debate ? is it forward or sideways. It's not really AMIGA OS, neither is Be.
I'm not being mean and I'm sure they won't stop their company, they are making money and creating their own user base.

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@downix
True but Pepsi and Coke are not struggleing for a user base.
Linux and microsoft was a bad example because neither are they, but it gets the point I was trying to make accross. How can the father of the OS moving to another platform that is clearly aimed at it's user base be taken as a good sign for AMIGA. You clearly stated (Fact is, there is another option, the boing ball is not the only way, and in fact, there are benefits to something not-name-brand, or the other-name-brand.)

That's what? andother option to choose another opperating system?? Well sure, I could even go to Windows, but Windows is not aimed at AMIGA specificaly. As I used before the Linus Torvolds example, going to program for, I dunno, let's say HP unix.

As I said perviously, how would the linux community feel about that.
You have made an alternative to AOS, aimed at the AMIGA community as an alternative or whatever, met some, not all resistance, and then gone and with money, taken the person who designed the OS for AMIGA in the forst place to help work on this alternative system.

AMIGA users all sit back and go, well I'll be, that's not very nice, we are worried about folding yet again, and someone goes and moves a hand like this against us yet again. I wonder if Bill G is invloved. Or some crap like that.

No person who is interested in the AMIGA's survival is going to see this as a positive sign.  It's a great sign for people of Morph OS especialy if they came from the AMIGA and liked that platform, they just got it's designer in to contribute!!.

As for your last comment, I already have agreed with that. As I said previously, if it wasn't for this community standing by the NAME it is so passionate about, you would have neither opperating system. What's your point there? Of courese the stonger will remain, as I also said previously, most AMIGA people are not going to see this as a good sign, most will say it's another step to snuff the light. Another hand against them. It is not going to be seen as a positive step forwad to a company (AMIGA) already short on funds, that is trying to once again pick itself up and fight forward as an opperating system. It has a passionate community and that's the only thing keeping it's head up, it's the whole reason for another OS revision. It's not good for AMIGA, it's great for MorphOS.

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@gary
That's a pointless statement. If you were to define AMIGA as commodore then it's already dead.

If we are still discussing MorphOS It's not a progression of the original classic platform at all it's another opperating system. They will tell you that themselves! It's aimed and capturing the feel Of AMIGA OS perhaps, but it's not the AMIGA OS Opperating System. It's like running Linux on AMIGA HW. That's not an AMIGA, it's linux. OR Unix on your 4000T that's not AMIGA, that's an AMIGA computer running Unix.

Or perhaps you could run windows, all pointless. If AMIGA OS ran on your Athlon 2800 and ran AMIGA application nativly, ie, we never had a 68000 in an AMIGA, we used Intel from day one, then it would be AMIGA. Just like you can have an IBM clone PC these days with Linux called a linux box, or Windows, or BE etc......
 
I think it's quite obvious actually. but it's probably easier to describe what it isn't.  It's not MorphOS, it's not Linux, it's not BE, etc, etc. It's AMIGA.

The opperating system is what is trying to be discussed, the AMIGA opperating system can't be descibed any other way. The point raised is bringing over the person responsible for AMIGA OS to another OS  because AMIGA is in a state that is nearly there to bury it for good. Little funding, small userbase.
 It doesn't matter what hardware it's run under, if it's running the computer, it's classed as an opperating system. It is the software that allows you to use the hardware in a productive and usefull way.
If it changes hardware, it does, as long as it retains the ability it was designed for. Emulation is not as efficient, so that's why it is being re-written. It's not MorphOs, or any other system. You talk about progression, I'd say it's more like migration, just like a windows user moving to Linux. He may consider Linux to be the natural progression of the Windows enviroment for him.

Pointless.  I'm sure this argument has been fought to death, but it doesn't stop a small community from banding together to try and keep an opperating enviroment they enjoy up and in use.  However! if you were to say to me, MorphOS is the version OS3.5 and I run AMIGA os 3.0, then well yes, you would be very right! but MorphOS is MorphOs, not AMIGA os at all.

If MorphOs was 3.5 it would be used as such. It is not, it is another opperating system that is on offer as a replacment to what AMIGA users currently use and whoever else want's to use it.
To bring the developer of the AMIGA OS over to help make Morph OS is a kick in the teeth to AMIGA users. However that doesn't make it AMIGA OS. Just as Linus programming for Microsoft would not make Windows into Linux but if Linux was in the postion of AI, with very little funds, it would sure worry the Linux community.

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@downix
what the, quote me if I'm wrong, oh hang on, I'll quote myself "If MorphOs was 3.5 it would be used as such. It is not, it is another opperating system that is on offer as a replacment to what AMIGA users currently use and whoever else want's to use it."

I have said Morph OS is Morph OS. it's not a step forward, it's sideways, or migrating to another opperating system.
Downix, Morph Os is not the progression of the AMIGA opperating system, it is another opperating system.
It dsoesn't matter who wrote it, man, Microsoft could go write an OS and call it zuse. It runs zuse applictaions, but it's not Windows. Sure Microsoft made it.

Morph is not even based on AMIGA OS's code.  Morph Os is MorphOS, it's an alternative to AMIGA OS. Period.

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@downix
Oh a different angle now?
>>There are folk out there running AmigaOS without a single Commodore designed library.
What, Linux? or are we talking MOrph OS now lol

I agree, I have friends who run Windows and there is not 1 single Commodore Libray in that, infact it's even called Microsoft Windows. Yup even people who run Linux on the AMIGA classic Hardware, that's not AMIGa either though is it?, that's Linux.  If I was able to run Windows on my classic AMIGA hardware, would I be using AMIGA? Would it be an AMIGA or just another WINDOWS box?

I know lots of differnt libraries for Windows that ar not Windows libraries, how about Linux ones I'm sure we could go on.

It's quite simple. MorphOs is in direct competition with AMIGA Os. It's an alternative to the AMIGA OS and it is being offered as such.
It is not AMIGA Os, it has nver claimed to be AMIGA OS, it is offering another opperating system to use INSTEAD of AMIGA OS.  It is claiming to have a similar "feel" to that of AMIGA OS. I guess BE could be considered to "feel" like only the best bits of M$ Windows opperating system, but it's not Windows, it's BE. Pointless.

Even your 3rd party libraries and programs that enhance the AMIGA OS still have to run on it's foundation. Directory Opus runs under Windows now, but that doesn't make it "Opus opperating system"

If the 3rd party "enhancements" Don't run under AMIGA os enviroment, they crash. or fail to work or if they change the code, then they could be labled as a trancoder, or emulator.

Easy to draw the line. Morph OS is an Alternative, that's what it is, it's not the AMIGA OS, nor does it pretend to be. It is in direct competition with the AMIGA OS, and having Carl S brought in is just another blow to the already dented AMIGA OS community.

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@downix
Well that depends, if you are talking about an update or rewrite like OS4, It's still there to run AMIGA OS and AMIGA OS software like the transition from Windows 3.1 to 9x series or NT. Nt meaning New Technolgy where a kernal is implimented. Much closer like exec.

It is not however an OS replacement like MorphOs is.
If your claiming that Morph Os is AMIGA OS, think again. If you replace the opperating system with completly new everyhting, it becomes that.

Linux on the AMIGA replaces EVERYTHING when running on the AMIGA, hence would be classed as a Linux Box no matter the hardware.  Running a complely new OS on AMIGA hardware for example, MorphOS makes it a MorphOS box . It's really not hard to define where it stops.

I will speak slowly. Morph OS is an a l t e r n a t i v  e  to the AMIGA OS, it is marketed as such. It is also in direct competition with AMIGA OS. If it was not, AI would have bout it and intergrated it into the OS that is AMIGA OS. They have not, and they have re-written the OS to what is now considered to be OS4. Exec is but a part of that. Tell me, re-compiling the kernal in Linux to run on or whereever, does that mean it is no longer Linux? No it does not. Many compilations of the kernal are developed for linux, I just did a build the other night with the latest revision.  Some different kernals break certain things, some support more or different. The OS remains.

Morph Os is not AMIGA OS, ask them if you don't believe me.

The lines are drawn and are clear.  The AMIGA OS is being updated and re-compiled and enhanced, it is still AMIGA OS, although it is compiled for a newer hardfware base now. i can run Linux on a sparc station too, is that now Sparc OS, no it's not.

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@bloodline
Says who?, you? where is you argument.
The disgussion may have gone slightly askew from the original topic, but something needed to be cleared up.
i was trying to explain that Morph OS is not AMIGA OS, that it is an Alternative OS to the AMIGA OS. It is marketed as such. An OS that does run AMIGA and copyed on it's roots would be called a clone or dervitive of the origonal. Like slackware is to RedHat.
All well and good to throw in your statement and I welcome it, but to just say blindly I can't describe what an OS is is really narrow. If my statements are so wrong, why don't you contribute in a positive way instead of slander, you think you're capable, jump on board and offer some constructive criticism.

 I have worked with computers from vic20 to spectrum and even built my own z80 machines from parts as hobby projects and programed them for simple tasks as well. I have ass dip in electronics, certificate in electrical engineering and I am completing study in comp sys engineering.
I think I may have some sort of a clue, well my education seems to say such. Oh did I mention I maintain systems for a very large communications company?
i find that your comment is only derogatory, not insightful or helpful. I don't know why you bother to post when it's putting people down. Have a nice day now won't you .

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@gary
>>
No, I'm not defining Amiga as Commodore: I said "progressions of the classic Commodore Amiga." By that I mean things that have evolved from the old platform.

Same with window? so? Windows runs on a multitude of platforms. Linux too.

>>Sorry, but this is a classic case of valuing brand name over product qualities. That's your choice, though, so that's fine. But other people interpret things their own way. In this view *all* of these post-Commodore projects are descendants of the original in one way or another, because of the backgrounds of the people doing them (apart from the manufacturers of the AmigaOne hardware, anyway), the design goals, the "look-and-feel," the third-party developers, the end-users, etc. Trying to draw some artificial line down the middle of all of these based on an IP purchase just doesn't cut it.

Sure it does, why do people use Windows.  Or why do people choose Coke over Pepsi. Brand name loyalty is very big buisness. Has a lot to do with succsess.

>>Sure it's a progression. Have you used MorphOS on a Pegasos? The lineage is undeniable. Yes, it's also another operating system. For all intents and purposes, AOS4 is also another operating system, relative to 68xxx AmigaOS. Isn't the goal to have it all PowerPC-native? Is it *a good thing* to have the old 68xxx code in there and have to have it running in emulation? The AOS4 developers are working like mad to get away from the old code and here you are trying to hold on to

Says who? I nver stated I was holding onto anything? I mearly state it is based on the foundations of the pervious classic OS. Who says they can't update it or run it even on a strong arm if they want. that's not 68000 code.

>>Sorry you feel that way, but I imagine he'd also work with Amiga, Inc. or Hyperion if he was approached with a good plan. Maybe somebody should ask Fleecy.

Given enough money, you're probably right. From last I heard AI was struggleing to stay afloat. Carl S has stated before he is interested in seeing where his "baby" has ended up.  He needs to take his future into account, perhaps the deal is better with Morph.


Where in the world did I say Morph shouldn't survive or isn't worthey, quote me again"there is plenty of room for other Os's"  But it's not AMIGA as you have said yourself (Nope. Nobody's saying it is. It's "Amiga-like." If you get a chance, try it out. You'll see how true that statement is. This question of is it or is it not "Amiga" will eventually fade away. It isn't even important or fun to think about anymore.)

I dissagee with your comment on importance. It is important, It is very important for the survival of the company with an OS that has changed the way people compute and spawned the ideas for other OS's.
If it fails, then people will have no choice but to go with another company. AMIGA OS will dissapear, just like GEM, OS2 etc........

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@downix

>>By your logic against gary, we'd be long-dead.

>>Amiga, Inc is just a company. If it goes under, oh well, life goes on. It is not the end of the Amiga community, and possibly not of the OS itself. If the OS vanishes, at least we have 2 remaining choices for a next-generation platform, MorphOS and AROS. Why are you so stedfast on killing the community all for the sake of a company?

That's not true either. There have been updates to our OS from 1.0 to 3.9, hardly dead although takeovers and bankrupsy have strangled develpoment .

>>Amiga, Inc is just a company.
Of cousre AMIGA is a company.

>> If it goes under, oh well, life goes on. It is not the end of the Amiga community, and possibly not of the OS itself.
Sure if they realease the code of the OS to the public, it may.

>> If the OS vanishes, at least we have 2 remaining choices for a next-generation platform, MorphOS and AROS
Well, that's true too, so? I have Slackware and Red Hat and Suse etc....all versions of Linux, which one do you want to use.

>>Why are you so stedfast on killing the community all for the sake of a company?

A little harsh don't you think. Why would I want to kill a commmunity that is the only reason why "the company" is relaesing another version of my favourite OS.  )

You want an alternative? Go use it. I want to see my OS of choice go forward, I'm not killing anything lol I'm standing up for it.

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@downix
>>Right here, your logic is absolute nonsence.

What do OS updates have to do with there being 2 additional amiga compatible OS's availible?

What are you talking about, OS updates are 1.0, 1.2, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, 3.1, 3.5, 3.9

>>What do OS updates have to do with there being 2 additional amiga compatible OS's availible?

What do you mean, Where is there another AMIGA OS that runs AMIGA?? What Morph? Morph runs Morph OS

What do you mean 2 AMIGA OS's I only know of one.
If you mean OS4? OS4 runs OS4 native apps and emulates what it cant run native for classic apps. It doesn't use Morph though. Morph is it's own OS.

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@downix
They are not AMIGA OS just because they run modules that work under AMIGA OS lol.
That's the point.  Modules are just that, things that run under AMIGA Os. If they don't need AMIGA OS, then they are not AMIGA OS or a module any more as they are not based on AMIGA OS and don't require it to be loaded to function. They have their own code and don't rely on any part of the origanl base AMIGA OS.

They may be compatible to some degree but as far as I know, the source code for AMIGA OS was never released for anyone to copy. Wine allows you to run windows apps under Linux, it runs on the same platform but is not Windows.

No need to get all snooty. It's a debate, It's not a personal attack on you by any means. If you're offended, I am sorry.
Good day to you too