Native Amiga Video and TV Cards

[JaXanim]

I need to get my native Amiga video output into a TV card so I can run LightWave on an A200T/Mediator/Voodoo5.

For anyone unfamiliar with LightWave3D, it outputs Hi-Res Interlace or Picasso video only. Since I've swapped my PIV for a Mediator/Voodoo setup, I can't run LightWave on my SVGA monitor. Running it in Hi-Res Interlace on an old Microvitec multisync is a nightmare.

So, has anyone done this? It seems a good way of getting native AGA output onto an SVGA screen, but I'm struggling with it.

Native Amiga output is on TV Channel 36, so tuning a TV card to that channel should give me what I need, eh? I understand that I need to connect the A1200's Composite video out to the TV card Comp-In connector.

Well, I've done that and get nothing on the TV video screen.

Anyone got any ideas on this?

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

I originally intended to use both the PicassoIV (which runs LightWave perfectly on an SVGA)together with the Voodoo card, using the MediatorZ4. Unfortunately, my kit won't do it. After long discussions with Elbox, it seems I have a system frequency imbalance which precludes both video cards being used together. So, I removed the PIV (which has a built-in scan doubler).

I have all the other kit I need to run via a TV card, so I thought this is the easiest option. I don't have a separate scan doubler.

I'll take a look at AV1, which I'm not familiar with. Is it on Aminet?

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@Tahoe
@CaptainHIT

Ah, I see now, thanks.

I've got TvR, but haven't had it running yet.

The instructions are pretty confusing for a new starter.
They refer to functions which I don't see on the TvR gui.
I don't see a 'Line' button anywhere!

Maybe I should reinstall it? I followed the instructions about the Fonts and the Stills drawer, but I'm blowed if I can get it running!  Help..!

JaX

EDIT: Er, I mean the 'Shots' drawer.

      As with lots of software nowadays, this one assumes you are a tv engineer already and know what all the abbreviations mean, without any explanations. I'm sure this is a nice piece of kit, but without a more lucid explanation of its bells and whistles, I'll probably not be able to use it. A pity.

[JaXanim]

Ho-Kay,

I've got the TV channels running perfectly on my Workbench screen (a High Definition Voodoo format). For now, I'm using the standard software supplied in Elbox's MMCD package.

Now I need to understand how  to get the Composite output from native AGA format onto the default Voodoo screen via the tv system.

When I start LightWave (which has PAL or Picasso output only), the default Voodoo screen switches off and I can only see the output using a 15KHz Amiga monitor attached to the A1200's video interface.

How do I arrange things so that this PAL output can be seen via the Voodoo graphics? I have connected the A1200 Composite output to the Hauppauge TV Card Comp-In socket.

I've set the TV software to use the 'Source 1' (the Elbox info says this is the composite-in source), but I don't see anything when I switch screens (ctrl-M) to get back to the Voodoo screen.

Do I need to 'tune in' the TV software to see the Composite input and if so what is its frequency?

Sorry if all this seems like stupid questions, but I'm completely baffled by the TV system.

Any help appreciated.

JaX

[JaXanim]

@X-ray

I think you're exactly right and that's why I'm trying to understand how people get AGA stuff to display on their VGA monitor via the Composite-in on a TV card.

See CaptainHIT's post above. I'm trying to understand how that's set up.

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@X-ray

Guess we'll have to wait till CaptainHIT comes back.

I'm baffled too!

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@Karlos

I've tried the setup you describe, but when I start LightWave, it automatically outputs an native mode and my Voodoo/SVGA screen switches off. Even with the TV system running, there's nothing on the monitor.

The only way I can see the LightWave gui is on a 15KHz monitor attached to the A1200 video port. It's Hi-Res Interlaced and impossible to work with.

If I change screen back to the Voodoo one (LeftAmiga+M), there's nothing on the TV screen and the 15KHz screen switches off at the same time.

As commented above, how does the Amiga generate two different screenmodes at the same time? Or does it? I suppose the composite video output isn't a screenmode as such, but simply a separate additional output? How do I get that onto Voodoo when LightWave switches it off? I'm confused by the whole thing!

However, you've probably helped by involving the PC in all this. I can fit the TV card in the PC and direct the Amiga native video to the Composite In connector. I can see how that should work fine. Just means having both machines on together.

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@lorddef
@Ilwrath

Tantalizingly close eh? But I still don't savvy it, so if you figure out how to set up this ENV variable(), please let us know, in detail, in simple speak too.

In the meantime, I've managed to get the LightWave gui into my PC/TV system using the Composite connectors as indicated in my last post.

If that's as close as I can get, OK. It's not ideal, but better than where I was.

I'd really like to know how to do it with one Amiga and one monitor.

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

Hmm,

The Elbox website has the following info in an old press release on their Mediator PCI range:

  "Software for TV cards in Mediator enables a number of other additional functions, which the TV card may perform. For example: managing the radio tuner integrated with the card or using the TV card as a scandoubler / flickerfixer for displaying the AGA-generated image in the PCI graphic card screen."

So it seems the Amiga can generate its native video and provide concurrent Voodoo graphics.

So how's it done?

JaX

[JaXanim]

@patrik

Re. the vilintuisup.library. I'm not into the technical details, but from what others have said, it seems so. LightWave was written around the Picasso RTG system and supports it natively.

I have looked at mode promotion and it's easy to do with ModePro, but things go bad when you begin the rendering process. The progress screen is messed up and shifted vertically so nothing's visible. I understand this can be solved but I don't know how to do it. (See Framiga's post above).

I also had frequent crashes when rendering under that condition. The Modeler interface can be promoted to several high resolution screenmodes using a tool supplied with the LightWave 3.5 package. This works with all later Amiga versions. The basic problem is with the Layout interface and the Render progress screen.

When I used the PicassoIV, everything was superb. I then decided to fit a MediatorZ4 bus to run PCI stuff and added a Voodoo5 for everything but LightWave. Unfortunately, my system won't run with both the PIV and Voodoo fitted. So the best option appeared to be keep the Voodoo and find some sort of workaround for LightWave.

I fitted a TV card cos I'd been told it could be used as a SD/FF for LightWave. This got me to here, without that final clue to using it. Others here know how, and several of us are waiting details.

I'll probably go back to Elbox and ask them how to do it.

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@patrik

I haven't been able to run LightWave properly for months. Very frustrating! I can manage very simple stuff using a 15KHz monitor for setting up in Layout, then rendering and sending the output to the Voodoo monitor. It's a bit tedious and not good on the eyes.

It will be easier to run Layout and Modeler in a TV frame on my PC. The Amiga's mouse pointer appears on the PC monitor of course, but that's OK. The need to keep the Amiga in its native mode to keep the mouse active is not a problem for most people running LightWave. They'll be too occupied with that to need a different mode on the Amiga.

The bottom line is to do all this on the Amiga and one SVGA monitor. I feel sure this is going to be fairly straight forward once I know how.

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@Framiga

I just downloaded NewMode and gave it a try (before reading these latest posts) and yes, the system crashes as soon as the rendering starts.

I tried to 'catch' the render preview screen by using the 'all screens' option in NewMode. This does stop at the right point, but I didn't really know what mode to use. I tried various 8-bit screens (as stated, the preview is in 8-Bit HAM) but same result, it crashed.

I'll have a close read of your last post and try to get it into NewMode. It seems like a very useful program and would provide a nicer solution than a TV card.

Later,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@Framiga

Many many thanks for your help, I'm now beginning to understand a bit about it.

It seems to me (but I'm just startin out) that LightWave has five screens to consider for promotion to Voodoo graphics. The basic Layout and Modeler interfaces are easy enough, it's when the rendering begins that things get complicated (for me anyway).

The rendering progress screen, which is normally in HAM8 greyscale I believe, also contains a thin (18 pixel deep) 2-color overlay with text. This is a separate screen I think, because the curser moves 'behind' it. This strip is located at the bottom of the render preview screen. However, using NewMode's screen positioning gadget doesn't seem to make things work. My Voodoo screen is switched off and it all goes to the native modes on the 15KHz monitor.

I think the NewMode gui identifies these screens as the Render Feedback screen and the Render Status screen respectively. I'm really having problems with this part of the program.

When rendering is complete, it usually switches to the 24-bit Picasso screen, which I don't think can be promoted as such(? ? ?). Anyway, I've  used a CyberGFX plugin to get this onto a Voodoo screen very successfully. You must select CyberGFX mode on the Layout/Options gui, before rendering starts.

So, things are almost there, but I more need help and if anyone has any ideas I'd be grateful for your advice. I can get the Layout, Modeler and final render onto Voodoo, but the rendering progress screens persist in the native format. I'm sure the answer is staring me in the face, but this stuff isn't my strong point.

The quality of the mode promoted stuff is way better than any from the TV card output, so I don't think that's really worth persuing.

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@Framiga

Again, many thanks for your input. I already made a similar config for NewMode, allowing smooth rendering in an unpromoted mode and everything else on Voodoo.

I feel it must be possible to get everything on Voodoo with enough experimentation, but it could take a while to figure out and maybe not worth the effort.

On my A1200T/Apollo1260/64MHz, the Layout interface is smooth enough at about 800x600 and 16-bitPC mode. 24-bit promotion makes it jerky when manipulating objects. Anyhow 16-bit is quite suitable for the two color interface, eh?

I will continue to experiment and if I get the Rendering screens to work, I'll post it here.

Cheers,

JaX

[JaXanim]

@all

I'll try to contact the author of NewMode and see if there is a solution to this problem.

Cheers,

JaX