Need help - want to boot my amiga HD on PC with WinUAE

[dredger]

Hello all,
 This post will be long but i like to be precise and explain all I already tried

 So;
1. I have a A1200/030 with Quantum 800Mb HD, still working, using it and typing on it while listening mods.  HD is 3 1/2 in Master mode.  To plug it on my pc, i just had to change to slave mode as it's on the same cable than my plextor.  I have a 2000+ with 1,5Gb Ram and FX5900, well, i have enough on this side
2. I installed WinUAE, and i also installed AIAB, but I dont really see the use of this ?  It added a line in the "Configurations" panel of WinUAE, the following : Default (WinUAE v1.x configuration file for AIAB r10.5)  I would guess it's a kind of profile.  So I kept it and went in the Misc panel and checked the "UAE scsi.device" as I read in another post
3. Now, going in the Hard Drives section of WinUAE, I click on Add Harddrive button.  It well listed me the Quantum HD, only this one, with a horrible name exactly the following : "HD_QUANTUM TRB850A A04.05 3536353835333233353133342020202020202020", I also checked r/w box. - Now ok, it list it in the Hard Drives window, following line :
Device: n/a - Volume: n/a - Path: HD_QUANTUM xxxx (the long name) - R/W: yes - Block Size: 512 - Size: 810.6M - BootPri: n/a
4. I tried to start WinUAE then ==> I have the insert disk page with "3.00 ROM 39.186" displayed.

So, dont work there
I tried another think :
5. Still in Hard Drives section of WinUAE I click on Add Hardfile.  In Path I put the long name for the Quantum HD, nothing else changed and clicked on Ok.  I have a line in the Hard Drives window which is now the following :
Device: DH0 - Volume: n/a - Path: HD_QUANTUM xxxx (the long name) - R/W: yes - Block Size: 512 - Size: 810.6M - BootPri: 0
I click on start button and here there's a change, I have grey screen with little box telling me "Not a DOS disk in device DH0" and retry/cancel options

One notice is that my HD is partionned.  I divided it in 5 partitions.  So it's maybe because WinUAE thinks it's only one partition of 810Mo but it's not, and maybe the problem is there !?

So I think I'm not so far to succeed, but Im stuck, I don't know what else i can do.  If someone could help !?  I wouldnt like to have to re-install all my workbench or whatever.  I just would like to see my amiga screen with my boot sequence, my menus, well, all the same than when I start my A1200 in a window on my PC.

One last question : is there a utility for windows which permits to read an amiga HD connected to the PC and browse into the filesystem ?  I mean a simple utility which would be transparent in explorer and accessing the amiga partitions like any other dos/ntfs partitions being able to manage files, and without, of course, destroying the amiga filesystem so I still can plug it back on my amiga and boot it ?  Dont answer me "yes with WinUAE".  I searched but didn't find.

Thanks for the ones who could maybe help
Dont hesistate to send me an email
Cheers
Alex

[dredger]

Hi again,
 I come to add one element :

I tried ADF Opus, I installed it.  It need the adflib developped by L. Clevy (http://lclevy.club.fr/adflib/links.html)

But there's a problem, and apparently, the downloadable dll on this site is too old !?
 when in ADF Opus v1.2, in the Menu=>File=>Open Device, i have 2 error msg windows, first one "ADFLib Error : ReadFSHDblock : FSHD id not found", i click ok then same window name with msg "adfMount : adfReadFSHDblock" and it's all.
 So I tried ADF View (http://www.viksoe.dk/adfview/", but it doesnt work too.
 And at least, on this page, it proposes to test if there's well an amiga HD connected to the pc, the small utility http://www.viksoe.dk/code/static_downloads/testhd.zip
I downladed it, extract, went into windows shell and launched the command and here are the results :

C:\>testhd 1
TestHD - Amiga HardDisk test utility

Running basic WindowsNT drive test...
Opening physical device: \\.\PhysicalDrive1
Getting drive geometry
  Cylinders = 823
  Tracks per cylinder = 32
  Sectors per track = 63
  Bytes per sector = 512
  Disk size = 849494016 (Bytes) = 810 (Mb)
Locking device
Reading sector 0
  52 44 53 4B 00 00 00 40  RDSK   @
  C6 9B 2C 30 00 00 00 07  ãø,0
  00 00 02 00 00 00 00 08
  FF FF FF FF 00 00 00 02      
Unlocking device
Closing handles
Done

Parsing arguments...

Running ADFlib drive test...
Initializing ADFlib
ADFlib version: 0.7.9b (10 september, 2000)
Mounting the device: |H1
ADFLib: Error [ReadFSHDblock : FSHD id not found]
ADFLib: Error [adfMount : adfReadFSHDblock]
Error: Unable to mount device
Done

So I think that ADFlib is an OLD one, and the problem i'm having now and it's really annoying, is to FIND an updated version of this library !?  And I can't find any ...
I went there https://sourceforge.net/projects/adfopus/ and there http://adfopus.sourceforge.net/ no way to find a new version of this dll newer than v0.7.9b, a compiled version, not the source...
And even if I find one, I still doubt that adview or adf opus will work !?

so, please, heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp ^^

Thanks
Alex

[dredger]

Ok i did a  lot your advises :

Uninstalled all WinUA and AIAB, delete all rep.
Re-install all (c:\amiga\winUAE dir.)
Copy rom files in the winuae dir.
Launch WinUAE - select UAE.scsi.device in the Misc options, save this profile in "configuration" panel
I add the harddisk in the HD section
I select rom 3.1
I launch : I come to the basic grey window with one window opened named AmigaDOS and I can't do much more.

I would say that the problem is coming from the adflib.dll file
Do someone have a Win32 binary version of adflib file newer than the one here http://lclevy.club.fr/adflib/adflib.html ?

At least, the solution to copy the whole HD on my PC would please me, copy an image, iso and whatever and use it.  But "how to ?"  The only software I know which makes a totally blind copy of a whole disk is Norton Symantec Ghost, and even, im not sure.  But I think that the file he creates is not a known standard but a special one just for this software

Im at this time searching for a software which would copy the whole amiga HD to the PC.  I hope the partitions will be kept.  If someone knows an utility to do it, please let me know

Anyway, thanks for all of your replies !

btw, in the past, i had my name on various amiga pages, I had contact with Jim Collas (dunno if you remember), I pushed to have a standard dual screen on the basic new amiga (which never came), also, i proposed a eeprom disk of at least 4Mo which can be extended and completely managed by the OS which could put the most used file in it.  And look now the PC news, they only start, in 2005, to sell kind of ram disk with little batteries.  I proposed this idea in 1995 i think to Peter T.... (too complicate his name  The Arexx technology was also one of the big strenght of the amiga OS... bah it's too late now...

Cheers
Alex

[dredger]

Yep i have different partitions, i just called them differently ... titi, toto, datas, jeux and ... dont remember the 5th one as my A1200 is opened and not connected at this time

The problem is that i don't "see" the amiga HD, I don't see any partition.  It's well listed in the list of HD available, it's the only one listed btw, but adding the HD to WinUAE in the "add harddisk" section doesnt give me after what I was expecting, I mean I was expecting to see then a list of my 5 partitions listed, and it's not the case.

And did i miss or what, but i think that WinUAE use the adflib library (dll so for windows), and when you look the little utility "testhd" I downloaded and when you look at the results i posted in a previous post :
Parsing arguments...

Running ADFlib drive test...
Initializing ADFlib
ADFlib version: 0.7.9b (10 september, 2000)
Mounting the device: |H1
ADFLib: Error [ReadFSHDblock : FSHD id not found]
ADFLib: Error [adfMount : adfReadFSHDblock]
Error: Unable to mount device
Done

... you clearly can see a problem with this library
Or i'm missing somewhere but where ?

And yes, i'm on WinXP SP2

So im still stucked ... :-(

ps: WinUAE is working well, im just looking at the old redsector megademo right now (with A500 emulation mode cause it crashed in A1200 emulation mode)

[dredger]

Hi again,
 I just tried, put the HD in master and alone on the cable, nothing changed

 Look, i made a screenshoot of my hardrive panel once i added the HD,here it is :


Can someone compare with what he's having ?

I'm starting to desespear ... or being angry, maybe both ^^

Cheers
Alex

[dredger]

Well it doesnt
Good think of the day is that with your post (blobrana) i discovered directory opus for pc, and it's great ! ^^

So i would need to install a basic workbench on my PC then use various amiga utilities to try to access my amiga HD.  Problem is that i don't have anymore the amiga workbench disks ... i just searched and found one disk for workbench 1.3.2

It's anyway strange, I wouldnt like to do that way.  I spent 2h searhcing for a windows utility which could make a total bytes by bytes clone of my amiga HD.  I tested almost 10 software, no one does it !  More than 3/4 of them only list drives or partitions recognized by windows, one list me the quantum but do not propose me to save the disk, and last one make the operation, but told me the disk is empty, so the backup/clone file it created was empty ...  

 Don't know what else to do now, nothing seems to work.

To sum up how i see to solve the problem :
- Do "what i don't know" to make my partitions see by UAE and problem should be solved
- Use ADFOpus (http://adfopus.sourceforge.net/) which could maybe save me.  but it's based on the adflib and it's "not" working with the last version i can download here (http://lclevy.club.fr/adflib/adflib.html), at least for me.
- Make a complete clone of my amiga HD in a file on my PC and open it with UAE, hoping that then the application will see the partitions

If you all abandon to help on this case, i would understand

Cheers
Alex

[dredger]

well ... im totally disgusted ...
i boot on my amiga with the HD and used an old version of hd toolbox

I had a scsi HD with squirrel defined, but not connected (since a while).  But the HD quantum wasnt defined, so, I clic on add new HD, he read the HD infos, then, I had the option to save them to the disk.  I tought this was maybe what was missing for UAE to read the HD, so i clicked on the button, then, reboot of my amiga and ... not a dos disk ....

if someone got a floppy disk image bootable on an amiga1200 that i could create with my pc (dunno how my pc could write a 880ko amiga format disk but maybe you know ?) i would be ...no pleased but saved.  I have all my writings on my amiga, i made backup but my last ones are still on the HD

Didnt thought it could have been such a pain to make UAE working ...

[dredger]

well, euh, yep
a little notice anyway : my Quantum HD was perfectly fonctionning since 8 years in my amiga, it's only on UAE it doenst work - and not anymore on the A1200 since yesterday ...

I found 5 installation disks, Amiga Workbench V3.0, Storage, Locale, Amiga Fonts and Amiga Extras, all v3.0 in fact
What do you mean about kickstart file ?  the bios, rom ? if yes, i downloaded the 3.0 roms, in fact, all roms

Also, i admit i never been an experimented amiga user.  I became one on PC as it's my job.  and moreover, it's old

So yes, if you can create me such a disk, but the best would be not to use UAE but boot on the amiga ... problem as u answered, PC cant write an amiga FDD disk, or is it possible once UAE is running or not too ?

Cheers & thanks

[dredger]

Thanks for all of your answers
Problem now is that im having 2 problems, and one is off-topic to the original post.

I need to repair my HD and I can only do it on my A1200.  My internal floppy FD0: is dead and FD1: is ok.  I played during +/-2h to install some of the WB in ram disk, and tried to run crossdos.  but i had problem once mounting PC1:, could not find mountinglist.  I even succeed to install DOpus 4.2 and run it, but there im stuck.  im ready to create a bootable disk with crossdos in startup-sequence and scripted mounting of PC1:, allowing me then to insert a 720ko PC disk with a HD salvage utility, but, can someone here list me the step to create this boot disk, the files I need to copy on it to have enough WB commands + crossdos + ability to mount PC1: device, and the write downe a startup-sequence i would write then ?

About my initial problem, so, as you said all, "it should work", i'll so forget to read my amiga HD on my PC.  I'll try on another one, maybe a third one.  but first, I need to retried my original HD and partitions ... if it's still possible

sorry for these longs posts (im feelink kinda noobish but sorry, havent really ever touched the OS, only a bit, and a long time ago)

Cheers

[dredger]

Thanks for all your help Thomas
I did all you listed, until i had HDInstTool and RDBrecov in Ram.  I searched on the net to get the exact parameters of my HD, i found this :
Root Device: 800M IDE QUANTUM TRB850A
Root Size/partition table:
   Disk /dev/hda: 850 MB, 850010112 bytes
   32 heads, 63 sectors/track, 823 cylinders
   Units = cylinders of 2016 * 512 = 1032192 bytes

First strange think was that, after read the HDrecov doc, i started HDInst, he read well the HD infos, displayed, but the 6 big buttons in the bottom are greyed ...
Other think, is that my WB apparently see 2 HD, QDH0 and QDH1, but with strange names and no default tools when clicking on it and not a dos disk also.

But ok, i started RDBrecov with the following parameters and command line :
RDBrecov scsi.device 0 s 512 c 823 cs 2016

It took almost 10 seconds to scan all, but it found nothing
So I have to abandon, and i don't have the courage to start re-installing my whole HD trying to have back more or less what I had before.  I had a lot of things installed on it, i customized my WB, i had MUI etc etc ... well, im gonna maybe install one on my PC with UAE, but it make me feel strange that I won't anymre type on the keyboard of my amiga (a black CDTV keyboard connected to my A1200 in fact)
Worst of all is my personal "agenda" i wrote during 2y and some other months of my life, never saved on another support, which is lost.  Yep my fault i should have backup'd it...

Game over, thanks to all for your support

Cheers

[dredger]

When did it see these ? Before you started any recovery action ?

 Just after HDToolBox once i started WB3.0 with disks.


Anyway, good news, here's the summary i wrote on notepad :

HD infos :
823 cylindres
2016 block par cylindre (512 byte par block)

Launched the command
RDBrecov scsi.device 0 s 512 c 1659168 cs 1
Here are the results :

Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 144: DosType=444F5303 (Cylindre 1, block 144)
Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 205200: DosType=444F5301 (Cylindre 101, block 1584)
Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 819792: DosType=444F5301 (Cylindre 407, block 1296)
Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 1229616: DosType=444F5301 (Cylindre 609, block 1872)
Possible FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 1393632: DosType=444F5301 (Cylindre 691, block 576)

Checking FFS partitions
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 144: Size = 205056 cyls Dostype=444f5305 / Name="TITI"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 205200: Size = 614592 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="TOTO"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 819792: Size = 409824 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="DATAS"
FFS Bootblock found at cylinder 1229616: Size = 164016 cyls Dostype=444f5301 / Name="TEMP"
==> note:  must read block instead of cylinder, and the size given by rdbrecov is not correct, also, last partition name is JEUX

Calculations :
--Partition 1--
block 144 = 1st cylinder
As 2nd partition starts on cylinder 101, it makes 101-1 : SIZE = 100 cylinders / 100*2016= 201600 blocks // 201600/2 = 100.800 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 1 - Block 144

--Partition 2--
block 205200 = 205200/2016 = 101 cylinder
As 3nd partition starts on cylinder 406, it makes 406-101 : SIZE = 305 cylinders / 305*2016= 614880 blocks // 614880/2 =  307.440 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 101 - Block 1584 (205200 MOD 2016)

--Partition 3--
block 819792 = 819792/2016 = 406 cylinder
As 4th partition starts on cylinder 609, it makes 609-406 : SIZE = 203 cylinders / 203*2016= 409248 blocks // 409248/2 = 204.624 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 609 - Block 1296 (819792 MOD 2016)

--Partition 4--
block 1229616 = 1229616/2016 = 609 cylinder
As 5th partition starts on cylinder 691, it makes 691-609 : SIZE = 82 cylinders / 82*2016 = 165312 blocks // 165312/2= 82.656 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 609 - Block 1872 (1229616 MOD 2016)

--Partition 5--
block 1393632 = 1393632/2016 = 691 cylinder
As HD makes 823 cylinders, it makes 823-691 ((((( + 1 ))))) : SIZE = 133 cylinders / 133*2016= 268128 blocks // 268128/2= 134.064 ko
FFS Bootblock is on Cylinder 691 - Block 576 ( 1393632 MOD 2016)

Checks:
Cylinders: 100+305+203+82+133 = 823 cylinders (823*2016*512 = 849.494.016 bytes)
Size: 100800+307440+206624+82656+134064 = 831584 ko = 851.542.016 bytes (850.010.112 bytes !?)


So correct me if my calculations are ok or not ?

Now, after this, i launched HDInstTool but it gives mi this warning : Piktogramm nicht gefunden, die Einstellungen können nicht geladen werden

The 6 buttons below are grayed.  Only if i double click on the HD it warns me he gonna all format so I click "Nein"

Hum ... is there a way to recover the partitions ?

Thanks indeed !
Alex

[dredger]

Well,

 I just performed all, also a rescan of rdbreco with 72 for cs parameter and 23044 for cylinders.

 The only difference is that i unpacked hdinsttolls in ram drive and ran it from there.  I had problem to format a disk, all had badblocks and no way to cancel the format (non stop retry/cancel requester), so after 3 tentatives & restart of the amiga and all the loads/copy/etc i decided to do it from ram.  I tried from the dos 720ko disk but it asked to swap disk drive with workbench non stop too, i did it almost 20x and the progression bar of hdinst. was still at 1/4

Well, there's anyway a problem
In HDInstTool i go in Setup drive, and give 23044 to cylinders, 72 to blocks per track, 1 head and 512 blocksize, didnt touch other settings and clicked USE
Now in Partition Drive section, on the Overview (the bar which show you the % of partioned parts of the HD, the numbers are left 0 (zeros) but right it's 5122.  And I think 5122 was the previous one.  In this configuration, I try a partiton of one cylinder (in the Edit partition window) and it gave 162kBytes as size, so this mean 1 cylinder = 322 blocks.

I thought i would first need to write new setup of the disk (the change of cylinders & blocks per track), so i clicked on save changes to the drive, the program warned me that this need reboot.  So i rebooted. (note that I havent added yet ANY partition or whatever)

Restart all until I come back to HDInstTools, click on setup drive to see if the parameters are well 23044 cylinders and 72 blocs per track, answer is Yes.
So i click on "Partiton Drive" and ... no luck, still displaying 0 to 5122

So, when i want to add my first partition, if I well put 2848 cylinders, start cyl at 2, then DH0 is making 461Mo, half of the HD... not good

As i rebooted using reset, i made a last test by switching off the amiga (and HD) and on.  But this didnt change anything, still giving from 0 to 5122

Last notice, I didnt touch the "File System" section of HDInst, but for test i tried to see, I added one filesystem to see the one available on my WB disk and i dont have the FFS, what I have is the following :
aux-handler
CrossDOSFileSystem
port-handler
queue-handler

But maybe we dont care at this point about filesystem ?  btw, i didnt save any more changes during these "tests"

So, what's wrong with this HD, or with HDInstTools ?

do i need to say thanks one more time ?  ;-)

[dredger]

Well, yep, i acceeded well my partitions, at least the 4th first ones
I just had to edit the mountlist (ml file) and remove the lines "SectorsPerBlock"

But ... yep there's a but ... hdtoolbox seem also a bit bugged

In HDToolbox i have the definitions of my drive (2 drives in fact i had a scsi in the past).  For the Quantum, i rewrite all the parameters, and it's now that's it's strange :
Cylinders: 23044
Heads: 1
BpTrack: 72
BpCylinder:512

First strange think is "Block per Cylinder", i assume they mean the blocksize !?
Anyway, i enter these values in order, and i read the summary of the Size which indicates 829548k (810 Meg)
I click on ok, do you want to overwrite it, yep, click on Continue.  i come back in the select a drive window i click on ok and here's what he tells me :

Warning! The drive type you selected has 11798528 blocks, while the drive itself has only 1660176 blocks.  Are you SURE you want to continue?

 In the doubt i click cancel (i tested to click on continue once and he gives another warning).  So i click cancel, i click "Edit Old" to re-edit the parameters of the HD and what do i see !? the size has changed to 1704704k, 1664Meg !?  And the datas i entered before (the cylinders, heads, BpTrack and BpCylinder) are still the right ones i entered !?  Even stranger, i just clic in cylinders but change no value, i push TAB (the focus goes in the Heads box, i still do not change anything, i push again TAB so the focus goes in the Blocks per Track box and at this moment, the size went from the 1704704k to 829548k !?  One more TAB to go in Block per Cylinder, still the same, and one more TAB to go in "Park Head..." (which is at 23044 btw) and the zize comes back to 1704704k ....

Is also my HDToolbox bugged !?

I even have disksalv (v2) and it ran well, i even scanned my DH0 and no errors on it, but it doesnt propose me to write the settings to the HD
At least, i also found ExpertPrep from the old GVP; but it did not grand enough options to set all i want, no way to change the numbers of cylinder or the blocksize

Anyway, I saved the mountlist directly on my WB disk ...

And a GREAT THANKS because i can already find back my files ... ouf ...

[dredger]

Voilà !
It worked, it's ok i have all and it's running like before

BTW, what happens if you click on "read configuration" ? Which values does it use then ?

In HDToolBox when I use the Read Configuration i obtain the following :
Cylinders: 1647
Heads : 16
BperTrack: 63
Block per Cylinder: 1008

If they write blocks per cylinder they mean blocks per cylinder. Why do you always believe the software is wrong ? Is this what Windows does to people ?

Im well placed about softwares, i should normally be a developper, but not anymore (please dont blame havent touched development since 13y) - and as the first hdtoolbox you made me download was bugged as you said, im just doubtfull.
 Im not used with HD, partioning and filesystems, i recognize it, but i like to learn about things and ask people who know about

At this point, I have to thank you greatly.  I thought my HD was totally lost

Im wondering if i'll try to put it on my PC.  I haven't tried again to plug it and try to make UAE run it.
 I'll maybe post another thread for this, or maybe there's a simple answer ?

Well, thanks a lot

BTW, a little question : is there any future plans for a possibility to see back a new amiga ? a new OS ?
My opinion would be to choose a standard harware, like a console game, and stick on it with minor changes.  but is there still any company behind ?  I doubt, after 10y it's over, no ?

Cheers, and, again, thanks Thomas !

Alex

 

[dredger]

No no im not blink
It's just that i followed amiga news during 3 to 4 years, gradually loosing interest.
The WB 4.0, if i well remember, was alreday talked about in 1995, or 96, so after 10 years & a busy life, I didnt care anymore about.  And now in 2005 it should at least arrive.

I searched a little bit right now.  So if I well read, 2 main standard hardware components will be a PPC cpu and ati GFX card.  And it's a specific motherboard apparently.  I thought, before reading news about, that I could have ran it on my standard PC harware (here i have AMD cpu and nvidia type gfx card)

btw, about the HD, it's not my pc who "killed" him, it's when using hdtoolbox, after having clicked on "read drive parameters" then click on save ...  I figured out that reading the drive parameters = read the current used drive parameters, not the, apparently, defaults ones as it was the case

I have saved anyway some amiga url and I'll check around regularly.  but if I need to buy a new machine to make run OS 4.0, it's a bit too much.  My first opinion here is that i well want to buy the OS and test/use it, but new hardware ... dunno

Cheers