IBM providing CPUs for all three major next-gen consoles

[Hammer]

I thought xbox would sick to x86,

Note that proto-X-BOX Sega Dreamcast (installed with Windows CE variant) is powered by SH4 processor. There should be a Dreamcast emulator floating somewhere in the WWW.

[Hammer]

It seems your history has been distorted. Until Motorola hit the 500 MHz ceiling with the G4 a few years back, PPC was kicking x86 all over the pavement since it's unveiling

Such logic can be also applied to DEC Alpha's kicking of X86’s performance during the Pentium Classic/Pro/II era.    

In terms of desktop market share X86 based system is kicking PPC based systems due to superior ISV, third party support and channel distribution. The real trigger for Intel boosting X86’s processor speed was the arrival of AMD’s K7 Athlon Model 1.

Furthermore, if x86 was so great, why is Intel replacing it with a new design (hence Itanium)?

They want to move their product from elastic to inelastic in economic terms.  

Intel desires to get away from direct competition with the rest of X86 cloners e.g. AMD, Transmeta, VIA and ‘etc’…

Most people use Wintel machines because they don't know any better.

The available software titles, channel distribution support, ISV support and software investment protection was the major factor. Notice the market resistance against Intel’s IA-64. In terms sales, AMD64(X86-64) processors already surplus IA-64.

[Hammer]

.

I think we can agree that the Alpha pretty much kicked everyone around the pavement. Too bad DEC got bought by a 2-bit company called Compaq.

It’s was the combine attack from Intel and Compaq.
The trigger was DEC suing of Intel over the Socket 8/Pentium Pro designs i.e. claims of copying certain design concepts.

With the fall of DEC, key DEC engineers sets up Next-Gen, then Next-Gen was taken over by AMD** (also made of some key DEC engineers).

Note that, the fall of DEC also indirectly benefited IBM i.e. elimination of a competitor.

[Hammer]

The handwriting is on the wall. We are not sure why some people in this community can't read it.

Refer to http://www.etmag.com/publication/magazine/2003-10/27-1.htm

"Both Windows and Linux continued to grow strongly - benefiting from their association with the x86 server market. Windows continues to command the lion's share of the unit market with 59.3%, while Linux has risen to 16.3% share. "

The growth in X86 continues to be unabated.

[Hammer]

An Amiga on x86 would be the same as Amiga on PPC, just faster and cheaper. It's also noteworthy that choosing x86 now doesn't mean you're stuck with it forever. If you program your software correctly, it should be easy to switch to other CPUs later with a minimal performance hit. Windows can't do that, because the Windows architecture sucks (and Microsoft doesn't really want to, anyway).

Actually, Windows runs on more CPU platform natively than the AmigaOS.

1. Windows NT is/was available for PowerPC (NT4), Alpha(NT4/5*), X86-32/IA-32(NT4/5), AMD64/X86-64(NT5), IA-64 (NT5).
2. Windows CE is available for MIPS, SH3/SH4, PowerPC, X86-32 and ARM.

*Internal MS development platform.
The only missing key technology to unify them all is dotNET framework.

Note that, SoftWindows 95 was a PowerPC** native complied MS Windows 95 (variant)  with JIT X86 emulator.  

**For Apple's PowerMac market.

[Hammer]

Of course it does Hammer, but other things are "growing' now too. The point here is that OTHER than computer markets are meeting the demands placed on them from the markets that they originate from to become "computers."

There’s nothing new under the sun in relation to CPU’s “other” usage i.e. an ARM based personal computer solution was an Archimedes/RiscOS box. The same CPU family was installed in PocketPC and PalmOS PADs.  

 It is a natural evolution. Cell phones will grow in form and function. Game consoles will do the same, as will consumer electronics in general.

The said PowerPC participants wouldn’t be the first ones to evolve from single purpose computer to general purpose computer  i.e. we saw this with ARM based CPU but going reverse direction.

**it was being blown away (market power) by X86 manufactures on the desktop market.    

The point is what is a "computer" is changing. The world won't change in a day, but things like power efficiency, memory requirements and the cost of license fees can alter the equation of what is and what is not acceptable.

I might point out that the reverse is also true for desktop PCs i.e.
1.  MS Windows XP Media Centre (includes HW requirements and specifications) for VIVO/TIVO media center roles (Occuring at this moment).
2. Windows CE .NET for embedded roles for PowerPC, MIPS, SH3/SH4, X86 CPU platforms**.
3. The introduction of Intel's “Pentium M”, VIA  C3 and Transmeta for “light and thin” markets.
4. Evolution of Windows XP to Windows XP Embedded i.e. cut down XP.

This can be applied to applied to Linux X86 i.e. refer to http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT7301151332.html

**Link includes "Trends in embedded CPU choice" i.e. http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5134111490.html

Additional: This link
"http://www.gensw.com/pages/news/news.htm" is is just an example of embedded X86 based competition. The X86 embedded market structure mirrors the X86 desktop market structure i.e. the usual suspects** is in the ball game.  

**AMD, Intel, VIA, ST Micro and'"etc'. Notice the support for “Pentium M” instead of “Pentium VI” in the embedded X86 market…

You will have your hand full with this level of competition.

[Hammer]

@downix

Thanks for adding to the list...

[Hammer]

@R&B

On a slightly side track issue;

Are there any plans for Windows CE running on your PowerPC/Pegy II motherboard? Perhaps a Window CE box/virtual machine**…

**VMWARE style not VirtualPC emulator. Some thing can be applied for Linux PPC.

[Hammer]

And I think G5 is faster than PIV

One could not claim that for all of cases (that's another topic i.e. start a topic and see the responses).

Don't forget new Cisco routers!

It may have to compete with ARM based routers.

I think PowerPC has a big future!

It will have a future until its main backer walks away from it.

[Hammer]

2. Low-cost basic Linux server as addressed in IBM presentation.

How would be the cost (per unit) and feature set?

2. The PowerPC in the CPU found in the most advance DTV receivers (satellite or terrestrial). Here is the latest one!

That's nice but when you have other developments in the "thin and light" HW industry e.g.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=12728

think of the Super TiVo (uses PowerPC too BTW) that does what is mentioned above using an expanded version of AmiNet*TV*

Just a note from http://thetechnozone.com/videobuyersguide/recorders/personal_video_recorders.htm

"TiVo senior vice president Brodie Keast acknowledges that "The PC has won as the center of digital content."

[Hammer]

Do you think that the desktop market is shrinking because of lack of desire or demand? No, it is shrinking as a direct result of a lack of competition.

They have competition in the HW  and software arena btw.

I talked to artists that wouldn't touch a PC because "it didn't talk to me."

Define "it didn't talk to me."

The lack of choices is killing the market.

Any mass scale statistical count to back that particular claim?

So? In the digital environment there are more than just the center.

Of course.

The thing is, over time by turning the PC into this digital-hub you also get an opportunity for eventual replacement. The more and more than the term PC means Digital-Hub, the less and less like a PC it becomes. This opens up new opportunities.

Media Centre PC is just assimilation of one role into collection of existing role.

The PC is still tied to the following;
1. Legacy, i.e. look at the market resistance to Desktop IA-64 (Deerfield core) Desktop PC. This factor will not go away. There’s nothing powerful than “software investment protection”. IF this was not the case the current market situation should not have happened.
2. Software titles in productivity, development and entertainment. PS; IF the alternative market did produce a superior IDE to Borland and Microsoft then I will be interested.
3. Its predicable that certain software company  will maximise the 64bit market by leveraging their existing market power from one market into another market. This is what they done in the transition from the strictly business PC to multimedia/home PC market. This is then maximised with union of X86 based manufactures and distribution chains willing to expand into new markets. From statistics, the exceeding X86 market power is then leverage into another market e.g. We saw this in the server market. This market power is leverage by another OS i.e. Linux X86 (both free and commercial distributions)**. This market has taken a life on its own. The box is only one aspect of this artificial life form.

**Reference
http://www.etmag.com/publication/magazine/2003-10/27-1.htm

A “beefed up” game console (i.e. old term home computer) is nothing new under sun.

[Hammer]

Be had the most advanced OS out there, they were even willing to give it away free to Hardware companies but not one took it.

One factor was; it stumped by “software investment protection” factors. Linux X86 has a better "software investment protection” factor due to WINE/WINEX and/or VMWARE/other DOS box.

Unlike AmigaOS i.e. it has a sizeable “software investments", brand name and once a dominant player in home/multimedia PC market, the BeOS is starting from scratch.    

The best technologies rarely win.

Can you apply “best technology” on OS that can’t offer “software investment protection”?

[Hammer]

He should be sacked. What is the point in competing if you're going to act like you've failed before you even start.

Has He actually failed his mission?  

Windows has a long way to go before it can claim the title of "the centre of digital content",

Well, it has the most software available for it.
Is there any major “must have” software for XYZ OS that’s not available for Windows?  

 

 and I don't think it'll ever get there now because MS refuses to build a new product from the ground up,

You got Windows CE (on a drip feed) to cover that issue i.e. a Windows Edition without X86 legacy burden.

or at least do some major re-working of its products to lose the useless legacy infrastructure which only serves to complicate matters for average users.

On same token, consumers expects compatibility.
There are other products that complicate matters for "average users" i.e. Linux/GNU.

The legacy infrastructure is one of the overriding factors that set “entry to the market” for new OS vendors difficult.

[Hammer]

If you think small commercial developers don't support their products, I suggest you get away from Microsoft and Apple and try some small-time publishers. You might be surprised.

Plenty of companies have built custom automated document management add-ons with MS Office/Word platform. Such a move may require the porting of VBA add-ons to these Office platforms, thus it would cost time and money do a repetitive port. At the moment, SUN’s Star Office 6 seems to offer the real alternative for creating custom automated document management add-ons.

Small commercial developers supporting their products are another issue all together.

I tried to install Apache, MySQL, PHP, and Perl on my Windows machine for testing my scripts before uploading them to my webserver, and getting these free technologies to work was like pulling teeth. Forums were filled with strangers than gave a hundred different solutions to the same problem (where none were actually correct), and the documentation is incomplete, inaccurate, and incomprehensible. "Read the F***ing Manual" is hardly an effective war cry of the free software zealots, if the documentation is wrong, as it usually is with Win32 ports of Un*x software.

There’s no proper consideration if the said product is free.  

The issues with Linux these days is the commercialisation of the surrounding service add-ons e.g. Crossover Office*, Trans-gaming*, Lindows*, Red Hat Linux Advance Server**, Ximian Evolution Email** and ‘etc’.  

*Subscription based services.  
**Service oriented business model.

It's an artist thing. Don't expect to understand.

It’s a rhetorical question to quantify the answer.

PS; On my free time, my hobby is playing with Cinema 4D (Win32).