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Author Topic: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere  (Read 8389 times)

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Offline bloodline

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« on: March 08, 2008, 01:54:11 AM »
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Nlandas wrote:
Please don't get iBoned! Apple products are overpriced, overhyped junk.


On the contrary, the iPhone is great! it's a media player, a phone and a unix box in my pocket... I can't see how I managed to live without one...

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2008, 02:57:21 PM »
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Krusher wrote:
Good luck with your expensive Apple labelled device (gawd, how familiar :P)


I don't need luck I've had one since November and it's great...

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I really don't understand the hype with their mp3 players and that phone, better ones are out there for less money  :-o


That's not true. If it were I would have one of these mythical "better" devices.

The iPhone does what the Amiga 500 did... it puts a whole bunch of existing technologies in to a single unit with the prefect form factor for my needs.

If you don't believe me as to how good the iPhone really is as a mobile computing platform... then watch the SDK roadmap event video on the apple website...

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2008, 03:15:30 PM »
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dammy wrote:
So what browser with what plug ins does iPhone come with?  How is the viewing of web sites?

Dammy


I have no idea what plugins Safari has (but the webkit based Safari is great browser) , the only two things that don't work are are Java and Flash.

Websites are identical to there desktop equivalent... something that is new to me on a Mobile device, where websites are usually rendered in a special mobile form or just plain wrong... Amiga.org is running just fine now ;-)

Java isn't a problem... I almost never use it and certainly don't need it on a mobile device. Flash is more annoying, but again I'm on a mobile device, the internet is much more of an information resource than an entertainment portal... I'll take battery life over flash adverts :-)

I did think that lack of WMV and ogg support would be a problem, but it's not cropped up yet...

I hardly ever connect my laptop to the internet any more... since casual surfing is so good on the iPhone.

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2008, 03:54:10 PM »
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
I did think that lack of WMV and ogg support would be a problem, but it's not cropped up yet...
I've ripped all my cd's in OGG format. I don't think I'd be bothered to do that again because of the lack of support by one device. My current mp3 player does have OGG support.


My First mobile device was a Windows mobile based thing, so most of my early CD rips are mp3... When I got an iPod I still set iTunes to rip in mp3 160kbps... once I got my iPhone I set iTunes to rip in AAC... which is my major lossy format now. I've never been convinced by ogg despite trying to support it.

The audio quality of AAC is much better than other lossy formats, so I'm happy.

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2008, 04:55:12 PM »
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motorollin wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
Websites are identical to there desktop equivalent... something that is new to me on a Mobile device, where websites are usually rendered in a special mobile form or just plain wrong... Amiga.org is running just fine now ;-)

iPhone + amiga.org + unlimited data tariff is lethal...

--
moto


As I suspect we are both proving right now... :-) A.org in the gym... A.org in the supermarket... A.org sitting by the river... A.org in the cafe... A.org in pub... A.org when you wake up in the middle of the night with a bit of insomnia... I honestly feel like I'm permanently connected to the internet :-)

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2008, 05:04:32 PM »
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adonay wrote:
I would never ever buy a iPHONE and categorize it as a smartphone. As i run a REAL smart phone "HTC" that has support for thousands of additional applications\programs etc ...


I've jailbroken mine... which was as simple as clicking a button (cheers moto ;-) ) So I have thousands of apps available for mine already :-)

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It is easy to use\sync with outlook express "unlike my friends iPhone.


Active Sync due in june will bring full exchange push support... I hope apple (or a third party) will provide something similar with Google!

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 It has a GPS with Tomtom.


While not as good as Tomtom, the iPhone's location finder works better than my friends N95 with real GPS... at least here in the UK...

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I use it for playing mp3 pocked divx and even have scummvm running on the thing ..


Yeah, I've got both Movies (Widescreen) and ScummVM on my iPhone...

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Also i can surf the nett with opera over HSDPA/UMTS "decent speed".


For websites the Edge connection is as fast as first generation broadband that I used pay £40 a month for!

It would be nice to have a 3G option... though the terrible battery life of 3G on the N95 makes me think that I wouldn't use it much...

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I can even play quakeII on the damn thing. But for serious  apps there is nothing better than a real smartphone.      


I agree, and one that runs a nice stable unix is the best, that's why I love my iPhone :-)

-Edit- Does your device have hardware accelerated OpenGL support? The iPhone does... watch the last apple event to see what the iPhone can do with Games!!

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2008, 07:32:04 PM »
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adolescent wrote:
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bloodline wrote:
-Edit- Does your device have hardware accelerated OpenGL support? The iPhone does... watch the last apple event to see what the iPhone can do with Games!!


Some (maybe all?) of the new HTC phones have an ATI Imageon hardware 2D/3D graphics accelerator.  Although, the Windows driver hasn't been finalised/released yet.  (Since the Apple games haven't been released either this is probably a draw...)

I've been looking at the HTC Kaiser.  They can be had for as low as $50 and have all the features adonay mentioned.


The HTC Kaiser is the size of a small family car and the aesthetics of a particularly ugly coldwar Russian tank... It has half the video resolution of the iPhone and as of 16th of January... there are serious software issues, notably with graphics and video performance... oh and it comes with Windows Mobile, which after using for a year I have vowed never to go back to... near constant crashing/lock ups and terible user interfaces are very off putting...

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2008, 10:47:55 PM »
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persia wrote:
All of the late '80s OSs were not designed to do what we need in a modern OS, they all realised it.  Had the company that made Amiga survived they would have had to, at one point, throw out Amiga DOS and start again.  Because the Amiga was orphaned it is a living fossil, a picture of where OSs used to be.


So true... Windows 3.1, MacOS 7.x, TOS and AmigaOS were all built for a different generation of machines... much like MSDOS and CP-M were for the generation before... Also there were transition Operating systems, like Win95 and MacOS 9.x...

AmigaOS was actually better positioned than these other OSes... Reading the RKM shows that the plan was there to add memory protection, but developers didn't seem to care too much about that and the 68k hardware was lacking an MMU unlike the equivalent intel hardware... Give the AmigaOS a real security based file system and Memory protection it might have had a chance... but still without major reworking it would have been behind WinNT and MacOSX...

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But there was no winning strategy, had the owners of Amiga spent their money on development instead of beer and chips it would have still ended the same.  Likewise there's no path for Amiga to join Apple and Microsoft either, there's just no money and no will to do so and no company to do it if there was.



True...

Offline bloodline

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2008, 10:53:47 PM »
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adolescent wrote:
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bloodline wrote:

The HTC Kaiser is the size of a small family car and the aesthetics of a particularly ugly coldwar Russian tank...


Sure, the device has to be bigger to fit the "real" GPS, usable camera, 3G capability, SD slot, and full qwerty keyboard.  Add these to the iPhone and it will be a couple of mm bigger also.  I'll take a slightly larger package to save >$300 and have a more functional device.


Every engineering solution is compromise... Apple choose to compromise the technical in order to make sure that the human experience is not compromised. Since I have got to an age and situation where I need technology to serve me rather than for me to mess around with some tech toy, I need the human experience to be better, than worrying about if I have a 2mp or 3mp camera...

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 04:14:25 PM »
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adolescent wrote:
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Hattig wrote:
Compared to the main competition - Windows - there's no competition. Mac OS X is head and shoulders above,
technically.


Ok, lets talk "technically".  OS 10 is head and shoulders above in:

Running on proprietary Apple hardware?  Yes.
Running Mac specific software? Yes.
Ummm, that's all I can think of.

Can you explain how else it's technically superior?  And, while you're at it explain why you have to use boot camp to run XP or Vista to run applications, games, etc.


For mission critical apps like my live music work MacOS X has been a dream come true! The audio subsystem suffers less latency than windows even with ASIO and is far more stable. Moving to the Mac OSX platform meant I run more exotic set ups live as well as not having the damn thing crash on me after 3 songs...

OSX also seems to give priority to the audio system, as if I do something stupid that pushes CPU to 200% the audio units keep functioning without stutter and glitches...

There are probably other things for other people but that is the most important for me... The fact that everything just works is nice too... I can buy any peice of exotic audio hardware plug it in and go, no messing around with drivers and reboots...

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2008, 06:03:21 PM »
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adolescent wrote:
@Bloodline

How about a "real" technical issue that can be backed up with fact, not just your subjective opinion.  Latency and "crash on me after 3 songs" sounds like a compatibility issue or operator error.  Even OS 10 isn't crash proof, and can have driver issues.



It's not my fault if you don't consider mission critical reliability and low latency audio as important to you... They happen to be the most important aspects of an operating system for my needs, and thus are the issues I focus upon... These are real technical issues, since WindowsXP (I have no idea about Window Vist since I've never used it) is unable to perform reliably in these areas. Linux simply lacks the software, so I am unable to know exactly how that would perform.

There is a reason why 99% of all professional musicians use MacOSX. When I used to gig in the days just after my Amiga, I had no choice but to use a Windows based laptop for live work... it was terrible. I suffered many problems and at least one crash or lock up per gig... I eventually bit the bullet and bought an over priced under powered PowerBook G4 running OSX 10.4... despite its limited power, it never once gave out on me during a gig or during rehearsals... It was a dream come true, I could stop worrying about the damn computer and focus on the music.

Since I never have to install any drivers on the Mac... All professional audio hardware comes as Core Audio compliant,  I've never any driver issues...

-Edit-
My friends and I also like the MacOS for it's security... Since by default everything runs as the logged in user rather than root as in Windows, it's just safer...

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2008, 11:45:44 PM »
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adolescent wrote:
@bloodline

That's fine that you consider the audio system mission critical for your work.  What I am looking for is an objective reason that MacOSX is technically better than Windows XP/Vista.  You said latency which is subjective,


I assure you it is not subjective, I have to set up my latency compensation very carefully to ensure synchronisation between my equipment. MacOS audio subsystem, fittingly titled "Core Audio", allows me to set up the sample rate and buffer size very specifically to give a set latency... on my MacBook Pro with a 10-In 10-Out Edirol FA-101 fire wire audio interface, at a sample rate of 48Khz I can get 3.43ms in and about the same out... without any audio glitching...

Core Audio also features a modular DSP component system called Audio Units... these can be inserted anywhere within any Audio stream to provide Effects or Synthetics... I can load the system up with these until both CPU cores are maxed out... These Audio Units also offer network transparency, which mean that two Macs can send Audio and Event data over a network transparent to the user... This allows distributed audio processing and sending... Gigabit Ethernet offers fairly low latency, any thing under 9ms is usable... I've tried Wifi (n) and can get about about 15ms latency, which is just about usable for live... but not for the studio...

Windows has nothing as advanced as any of this. I am aware that Vista has introduced a new Audio system but it is incompatible with existing software... and certainly isn't as advanced.

-Edit- I've just read about Vista's new WaveRT audio component that tries to address the above issues, but doesn't work with Firewire or USB audio interfaces... Which pretty much rules out every audio interface a musician would want to use... and certainly rules out laptops, which have revolutionised the music industry.

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and crashes which sound like operator error,



Certainly possible, but when I transferred to Mac, I tried to recreate the Windows setup completely, using the same software (music software tends to have both Win and Mac Versions) and the same music hardware/synths.

The Mac system was rock solid...
 
To be fair I am usually running a hell of a lot of software at the same time...

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a bad computer,


Again possible, it was just a midrange Acer...

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 or just FUD (every OS can crash..).  


I never said MacOS X doesn't crash, What I said was that I can rely on it. If I set up a configuration and run it in rehearsals, I know it will function on stage.

With a Windows set up, It might run fine in rehearsals but then it would crap out on stage... Rehearsals have a lot more stop starts than live, where a machine will be powered up for sound check... then left until Performance where it will need to bang through the set at whatever pace were are running at that night. I need to be able to trust it.

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If you had proof that the same audio hardware on like systems, one running Windows and one running OSX, ran differently then I might take it a bit more serious.


Usual set up consists of Logic Pro (which was Logic Platinum 5 back in those days), Ableton, Reason and a couple Arturia Softsynths.

All software (with the exception of more recent versions of Logic) are available on both platforms... feel free to try it out for yourself!

I forget the hardware I as using, but I can dig up my old Keytech tour lists...

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 The "99% of all professional musicians use MacOSX" falls in the same category.   It sounds too made up to be true.  Care to site a source?


Just try and find a Musician/DJ that doesn't use a Mac!?!?!

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Regarding your security comment, you don't really know Windows.  Windows 9x had a single user security model.  NT and later all have separate roles for user and administrator.  In the end, if the operator chooses to run as root they can do so just like they can in OSX.  Vista has the UAC which is similar to the OSX prompt when root access is required.

 


This has already been answered by Trev.

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Re: Java v. iPhone v. Windows Mobile v. Amiga Anywhere
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2008, 12:33:10 AM »
I should point out that in my my posts I'm talking about WinXP SP2 vs MacOS X 10.4 since these are the OSs that I use/used... I've not upgraded to Leopard yet (since I need to make sure it is suitable for mission critical operation) and I have no desire/need to use Vista.