Aos 3 -> aos 4

[HotRod]

Maybe I would, but as an accelerator for my 3000 will set me back a half-grand easy, and a dedicated board will be quite a bit more than that, I'm not that motivated to find out. Maybe at some point when I've nabbed a cheap PPC Mac I'll give MorphOS a try, instead.

Then I just have to ask, if you're not interested why do you bother writing so many replys to anything I say? This whole statement is redicioulus. You can't get a "dedicated" board but you can get a mac and... okeeeey... good point

[HotRod]

I agree. At least I'd like to think we're doing a professional job by not releasing alpha stage OS to paying customers.

As long as the paying customer (me) knows what he buys I don't see the issue. It was no secret what I would get. Just because you don't understand things or remember how they where doesn't give you the right to throw out comments that are wrong.

Oh, I think it was classified as beta.

[HotRod]

commodorejohn will have to answer for himself, but I'm going to bet it has something to do with the questions you posed in your first post:

How many posts do someone need to answer that question? It's a simple question, not a test.

Look, the fact is most Amiga users don't consider OS4 to be Amiga. Amiga-like, sure, nobody is questioning that; IMO OS4 is just as Amiga-like as AROS or MorphOS. Surely you've seen the multitude of reasons why people don't want or like OS4 posted over the years. It's not as if people haven't heard about or even tried OS4, if they wanted to use it they'd be using it by now - it's been what, 7 years since it was "released"? The problem with OS4 is two-fold: Hyperion has pissed off a lot of people, and though OS4 is Amiga-like it's still not as good as a real Amiga and has shortcomings when compared to the alternatives.

I wanted replys to see if everybody was thinking the same thing or if there where different reasons and there was. So I would really like to know how you can speak for most Amiga users? I asked for answers from each person, I didn't ask you to answer for all of them.

OS4 has a long way to go towards acceptance. In fact it's been so long struggling with acceptance that it's very reasonable to believe that it will never be accepted beyond the microscopic sub-community which has accepted it since the mid double-Zs. If you're happy with OS4, then great! That's your own problem. The problem though isn't with the majority who don't feel it's as good as any of the alternatives.

And there you go, it's my "problem". Now why would it be a problem? I would guess that you're a MOS user by that nice attitude and another fine example of that user-base but I'm pretty sure that you got nothing to add that I don't already know, at least you haven't in this post. If you however wanted to try and sound as someone who are smarter than everyone else (or me) and wise enough to tell me something that I didn't know you have failed. Apparently you simply can't stand to read about AOS 4 and that's really your problem. I have know issue reading about an amiga wanna-be os runing on second hand hardware but I don't find that very interesting.

I hope this helps the next time you're fiddling around with Workbench settings or playing with some Linux port and start feeling evangelical.

Haha oh you ARE a MOS user. Yeah, always throwing that religous crap around for the last ten years. Good thinking, but haven't you gotten something new to come up with?

I understand that it must be tough to not have a machine to run AOS 4 on and that it hurts but try to get over it when you play around with Ambient or play with maconlinux adn start feeling evangelical.

[HotRod]

Uh...I'm replying because you asked WB3 users (i.e. me) why we didn't upgrade to OS4, and I was explaining, and yet it seems that you either can't understand or won't accept my explanation: OS4 is too freaking expensive. I'm not paying $600 for an accelerator or $1100 for a dedicated board plus $200 for a copy of the OS because that is way more money than I'm willing to pay for a retro OS - and if I want a modern OS, I can use Windows XP or Linux, both of which are far more capable and run on hardware that is massively cheaper.

And yes, I can get a Mac - because they're nowhere near as expensive. I can get a G5 Power Mac for $50-200 that will stomp any $500+ Amiga PPC accelerator or $1000 custom board flat where performance is concerned and be significantly more expandable. And maybe it won't run OS4, but it will run MorphOS, OSX, AROS, or Linux (hint: the last two there are free, which is about $150-200 less than OS4 costs.)

If I want oldschool Amiga goodness, I can have it affordably with a 68k machine and WB3.1. If I want PPC computing, for whatever reason, I can have it affordably with a Mac and a free OS. If I want cheap, powerful computing and don't care what platform it's on, I can get an x86 PC. OS4 does not offer improvements on any of those fronts significant enough to justify the amount of money it requires.

Ok and the question was why you need so many replies for that simple question?

[HotRod]

Because it apparently took this many replies for you to grasp that.

Or rather that it took you ten attempts to write an answer? I didn't ask you ten times now I?

[HotRod]

Ha!  +1

I don't want to spend that much for that little either.

Oh look, there are sheep here as well :-)

[HotRod]

Just as they work on MorphOS... On the other hand Magellan still doesn't work on OS4.

Regarding Magellan one could argue if it's better to have the functions of Magellan in the OS instead of runing an old, never to be upgraded replacement? I agree that it's good to have around while functions are lacking but the goal is to replace Magellan and not having to need it. I sure hope that it will be replaced (not talking just about AOS now).

[HotRod]

Sure, and Ambient actually takes inspiration from Magellan in many aspects.
But it's actually a greater concern for OS4 where the Workbench really shows its limitations as a filemanager or even modern desktop (despite all the commodities/patches trying to enhance it). Filer OS4 is a good step to have a proper file manager, but it should really be integrated in the workbench itself.

I agree but AFAIK it's on their to-do list. Workbench in itself has limitations, no doubt. Yep filer are being used a lot :-) .

[HotRod]

@HotRod



You are saying "jump on the OS4 train" like it would be a natural thing to do for everyone. But it isn't.

WTF was that?! Ehm... I asked because I wondered why and that was it? I know the history so I don't need a lesson. What do you want me to understand? I wonder why some are still using AOS 3.

I think you read things that aren't there.

[HotRod]

"OS4: even sheep won't buy it!"

MOS can have the sheep ;-)

[HotRod]

The "history lesson" is part of the explanation to why some are still using Amiga OS 3.x. It would have been equally relevant if you would have asked "Why haven't you jumped on the AROS train yet" or "Why haven't you jumped on the MorphOS train yet", and the answer would be the same: They want to use Amigas as they always have. They want the Amiga hardware, they want the Amiga OS that runs on it and maximizes the use of it. And they want to evolve the OS by patches and add-ons, updated stuff, etc. Isn't there some kind of effort of modernizing Amiga OS 3 by using components from AROS? I think I recall something about that. This will increase as soon as Natami gets here (if it ever gets here). A new, completely unofficial quasi-version of AmigaOS 68k is likely to evolve (what I called "AOS+" above), containing a mixture of real Amiga OS 3.x components and new ones from AROS and the Natami teams (like: "First install OS 3.x, then install this service pack on top of it that replaces, updates and adds new features. Then reboot!").

Some Amiga 68k users are happy with the way things are, some wants to expand and modernize the HW by add-ons that still comes from Individual Computer (and Elbox?). Natami will evolve the Amiga 68k. It won't bring it "up to date", but I don't think that matters to these people, they are more into the technology and retro hobby aspect of things. And that is my point.

MorphOS, AROS and OS4 is a completely different thing that I don't think appeal to these people. The goal for these three OS's are more to be able to do real 2011 things; like playing 2011 level media files, use the Internet in a 2011 kind of way, etc, but in an Amiga environment, and still being able to use most of the Amiga applications. One of the most central and fundamental goals of all three of these OS's was about "breaking free" from the old Amiga hardware and its limitations in a modern era context.

But even then OS4 is probably the least appealing of the three:

- AROS main feature is that it runs on x86 and other platforms.

- MorphOS is the one that has evolved the furthest, by far; it has the best features, the most features, the best "Amiga standards" built in, the best Amiga compatibility, the best performance, and although its bound to PPC hardware, it runs on extremely cheap, mainstream HW of very high quality and is as powerful as the PPC desktop HW ever became. In that sense, MorphOS certainly represents the very peak of Amiga evolution this far.

- OS4 has less features, poorer features, the "left over" Amiga standards built in, Amiga compatibility has never been really prioritized (which shows), performance comparisons between OS4 and MorphOS shows that OS4 comes far behind, and its hardware base consists of low volume custom HW with *risky* long-time support situation; the Sam is severely overpriced and underspecced, the X1000 will be even more overpriced (if it ever gets here, which looks more and more doubtful).

In fact, OS4's main attraction is its access to the trade marks "amigaone" and "amigaos4". And evidently this is very important to a certain breed of people, and they are probably the ones that gets the most confused when Amiga Inc starts awarding trade mark licenses to the left and right, they are the loud ones screaming "foul" as soon as a Commodore USA thread pops up in the forums.

But the rest of us; the MorphOS users, the AROS users, heck even the OS3 "classic" users that are hoping on some kind of Amiga evolution through Natami and AROS, has gotten over the trade mark bullshit a long time ago. We left that behind. I'd even say that most of us are tired of all the crap that surrounds it. We don't need Ben Herman's or Bill McEwen's approval of what to like and use as our "Amiga". We are more interested in the technology, the features, and having a decent bang for the buck ratio. And this is where OS4 fails, in every single point of measurement.

The "NG" OS's are obviously not of very big interest to the Amiga 68k crowd, but even if they were, then OS4 would still be the most irrelevant of all three of them. It's the one being furthest away. It's *not* like there is a logical "Amiga OS 3" -> "OS4" upgrade path, despite the somewhat confusing naming of the products, and that's why the formulation of your initial question was a little funny. Heck, I'd say that OS4 is completely redundant to anyone not interested in "amigaone" and "amigaos4" trade mark stickers.

Hope you understand better now.

First of all while this is probably true for some users as you can see in this very tread it isn't for everyone so got the answers that I wanted, a lot that I didn't wanted but it was expected and that's about it. All I cared for.

All the other things that you and others brings up about which is the best OS (you just can't help yourselfes, can you?) should be in another thread. However 10 years of that discussion should be enough, don't you think? It got nothing to do with this thread. I know that some choosed other paths than AOS 4, I read these sites and mailinglists ever since internet existed and before that on BBSs so just give it a rest, ok?

Why are you writing all this? I know the Amiga history well, been there, made my choices, didn't take the MOS or AROS path. It's free for anyone to answer my question with "I thought MOS was better so I have moved on with that path" and the same with AROS but that's really all that's needed. You can add why and be done with it.

[HotRod]

Well, you asked why Amiga OS 3 users hadn't jumped on the OS4 train yet, like it would be the most natural thing for them to do. But those on amiga.org still using OS3 are obviously mainly here for nostalgia and retro hobby reasons, so neither of the NG OS's is probably of very much interest to them. And if they were, then OS4 would probably be *the least* interesting one, and I simply explained why, as you seemed a bit clueless and surprised about this by the tone of your "why haven't you done it yet, what's holding you back" kind of post.

As most other people in this thread also suggested (many OS3 users), when you look at what OS4 is really bringing to the table, when you look at the HW available for it, and then the price tags, and then at your wallet, most people probably ask themselves "why on earth would I go for that one?" It's not strange that these people don't buy OS4, it would be stranger if they did.

Hope you understand better now.

Either way I wanted to read each users explanation and not some conclution from you or anyone else.

Hope you understand better now.

[HotRod]

Well, you got it all; a lot of explanations from various people as well as several conclusions. Lock, stock and barrel. As a result I think you should really understand better now...

Haha yeah I get it, your sad and jealous. Hope that it will get better soon

[HotRod]

So...you want our explanations, but not our conclusions? How does that work?

I don't want anything from you since you got nothing to add. Your just showing what a sad little person you are and you are too stupid to realize that. Sorry but that's the way I see it. You haven't written one line worth of reading.

The famous MOS nutcases... what a sad community...

[HotRod]

"Sad and jealous?"

Then I'm afraid you *haven't* understood *one single thing* of any of my posts here (and obviously not anything of the other replies you got either from other users). As a MorphOS user I have everything that you don't have. So I'm not jealous, not at all. And certainly not sad. MorphOS 2.7 is the peak of Amiga evolution as it stands now, and 2.8 is coming with many new promising features and performance boosts.

How can I make you understand better? You are *pretending* to be interested in peoples opinions, but it seems you are only listening to one single frequency on the radio; the gospel channel. But if gospel is all you want to hear, then maybe you should stick to the gospel world, where your kind of gospel is the only thing allowed?

Instead of coming here and pretending to be interested in other peoples opinions...?

That is what it seems like to YOU. I know that it is not the case, you do not. The reason for why I am not interested in what you and some others are writings are because it is things I allready know, I didn't look for long explanations from a few people speaking for everyone and obviously you don't understand why I asked at all.

Dont you get it? I find your answers to be a complete waist of time. I didn't ask you to tell what other people think but still you did and then you are repeating it over and over. You tell me that I don't understand but YOU don't understand that what you write I things that I already know and it wasn't what I asked for. Somewhere in there are the answer to my question as well but why spend time writing a novell about things that are of no interest to me? I don't need to read what I've experienced and that's been talked about over and over hundreds of times.

What is it that I don't get? Are you *really* sure that it isn't YOU that don't get it?

I wonder how serious issues one must have to write MOS propaganda in each and every reply for the single reason that I asked a question that had the line "AmigaOS 4" in it? I just can't even imagine what that must be like.

Like I wrote in another thread MOS will never be an option to me because of some MOS-users that are... well you can read the thread yourself. Something must be seriously wrong, so much that it's not even funny.

[HotRod]

So...what, you asked for my opinion when you didn't actually want it? Right, that makes sense.

(Also, I'm not a MorphOS user or advocate - I'm 68k all the way. And if I were going to switch to PPC, it'd be on Linux or Haiku. I just feel that, you know, $1000 for hardware that underperforms a $100 used Mac is a bit ridiculous, and by "a bit" I mean "a lot." But I guess you're not going to read this, since you apparently never wanted the opinions you asked for at the start of the thread...)

Well good for you! Great! I'm happy that your happy, but I needed ONE answer because I asked ONE question. Why don't you keep whatever else you got on your mind to yourself, write a book about it, make movie, talk to you girlfriend or whatever. You've answered and now I can see that you're repeating yourself. If you got nothing to add stop? Just a suggestion.