Aos 3 -> aos 4

[drHirudo]

>You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers.
> Can you share how?

> Why should I ? I'm 100% sure I can view/use more aspects of the web with OWB than you can do with LimberWolf. So maybe it runs some obscure plugins... so what ? I allways click "Deny" when a webpage tries to install on of those anyways.

Your limited Internet usage probably does not include any automation tools.

>Then the Mophosians shall not make public previews to unaware people
>and give them false hopes.

Yeah they should go with useing stupid acronyms (MAP anyone) posting braindead puzzles on their website and not forget to name dates that have no chance of holding water (you don't have to wait till summer).

Way better PR-wise !!!!!

Some people were enjoying the puzzle and one man had to eat his socks. Better than seeing broken alpha videos.

>You and me both know that all these MOS previews are mainly from
>distraction of the Amiga crowd from the AmigaOS 4 development.

You and me both know that you are running low on the pills against your paranoia ....

The whole idea that the MorphOS-team would care enough bout OS4 to time posting screenshots is so far out it could make the plot for the next CSI/NCIS/Law&Order spinoff.

They have nothing better to do than post stupid screenshots or videos. Months later there is nothing they can offer except for a limited filesystem.

>It makes sense if there is someone to buy the product.
Xactly what I said. Real question is how many would be there to buy the product (OS4 for PuP) if OS4 was available on cheap&powerfull HW.

Something we will never find out.

[sarcasm]We found that MorphOS on Mac hardware sold millions of copies and is used widely everywhere. I saw a man with a Mac in the subway two days ago. While I did not had the chance to look at his screen, I think he was running something resembling MorphOS. Since MorphOS sold millions of copies, there is a great chance that he was running MorphOS, no doubt about it. MorphOS is very
professional operating system, running on wide variety of Mac hardware.
[/sarcasm]
Are you happy now? The Mac/MOS simulation shall speak about the situation of the market.

AmigaOS 4.
Your latest sentence is irrelevant, because as you said there is no MOS for laptops yet! Contradicting yourself, eh?

On the other hand you don't need to wonder what OS I am running on my microAmigaOne.

[Fab]

Then he shall change the name to avoid confusion with the OWB that was ported to Amiga as well.

You're right about that. I really should change the name, and i even know which one i'll use. I've just been too lazy to change it.

You are using all these handy Firefox extensions on the other browsers. Can you share how?

For a start, OWB MorphOS comes with several builtin features that firefox only has as extensions or not at all (to my knowledge):
- webinspector (firebug extension on firefox)
- ad/content blocker (adblockplus or whatever on firefox)
- userscript support (greasemonkey on firefox)
- on demand or automatic session loading/saving (sessionplus or so on firefox?)
- per-url settings (spoofing, images, plugins, ...) like ibrowse
- network activity monitoring
- per-tab private browsing
and a couple others like that...

And about automation, userscripts allow to do quite a lot in that regard. And the REXX support would as well for other aspects (i doubt timberwolf has any kind of REXX port, by the way (not that it would be hard to add)).

If I want to use AmigaOS 4.1 library functions, I don't need to recompile my software for AmigaOS 4.0 if I want it to run on classic Amiga machines. Because AmigaOS 4.1 is available for classic Amiga machines. With MOS it is not the same case.

On the other hand, you don't always have to enforce the latest OS version for nothing (and avoid being as annoying as OSX in that regard). Latest OWB MorphOS version still runs on MorphOS 1.4 (including classic, even if memory and cpu requirements don't really make it really useful on such hw) with some features disabled.

[HotRod]

Ha!  +1

I don't want to spend that much for that little either.

Oh look, there are sheep here as well :-)

[Piru]

Better have such port, than having to reboot into another OS.

Actually I rather boot to another OS than suffer from abysmally bad performance that results. And BTW something like this was done over 10 years ago already with ixemul. It could be done at any time, but why bother when the performance, UI experience and stability would be far from desirable... You don't need to look far to see how badly these "linux ports" perform on OS4.

You mention the fellow who opened threads here about his triple, quadriple or whateveriple booting Mac machine.

Nothing wrong with that I'd say.

It (powerbook support) was announced back in 2009.

You have trouble understanding english it seems.

Sneak preview on Amiga.org
(almost 2 years ago). Fast development?

Since when 18 months was 2 years? That's 1.5 years, not 2.

Regardless during those 18 months we've:

• Released MorphOS 2.5
• Released MorphOS 2.6
• Released MorphOS 2.7
• Released MorphOS with support for eMac (various models)
• Released MorphOS with support for PowerMac G4s (various models)
• Showed preview of ongoing work for both PowerBook G4 and PowerMac G5 versions of MorphOS.

Not fast enough for you?

MOS is even more limited than AmigaOS 4. Most of the users however did not had the chance to try both AmigaOS 4 and MOS on same hardware to judge by themselves.

Who have seen it and judge the situation objectively see the truth indeed: MorphOS beats OS4 on the same HW on every area. Whining how "OS4 is not optimized for Pegasos 2" is getting a bit old now. OS4 still has no USB2 and lacks the proper 3D support, not to mention basic things such as proper support for AltiVec unit, working FAT, NTFS, ext2 or XFS filesystems or a proper console. I see no serious competition.

[Fats]

Why are OS4 users so defensive?

Counter reaction to the offensive MOS users maybe ?
Hearing for a thousands time that you must be out of your mind enjoying running OS4.x on this uber expensive hardware becomes tiring you know...
At this point I think everybody knows and made up their mind and we even know the proponents and opponents of MOS and OS4. It's time to stop trying to change other's people mind on this.

greets,
Staf.

[drHirudo]

Actually I rather boot to another OS than suffer from abysmally bad performance that results. And BTW something like this was done over 10 years ago already with ixemul. It could be done at any time, but why bother when the performance, UI experience and stability would be far from desirable... You don't need to look far to see how badly these "linux ports" perform on OS4.


Nothing wrong with that I'd say.

You are so 1990-ies. Rebooting in different OSes is something from the past. MorphOS is very 1990-ies as well. But keep rebooting if that makes you happy.
The Linux ports I have on my AmigaOS 4 perform exactly as they perform on Linux, some of them better.

Since when 18 months was 2 years? That's 1.5 years, not 2.

The date of the post says 11-07-2009 (I guess this is american standard then). Shall I dig older posts where PowerBook support was announced. Hurry up to delete them before they are found.

Regardless during those 18 months we've:

• Released MorphOS 2.5
• Released MorphOS 2.6
• Released MorphOS 2.7
• Released MorphOS with support for eMac (various models)
• Released MorphOS with support for PowerMac G4s (various models)
• Showed preview of ongoing work for both PowerBook G4 and PowerMac G5 versions of MorphOS.

Not fast enough for you?

Not a public version for any laptop. All these major numberings are in fact minor updates.
AmigaOS 4 was shown X1000. Does this count or not?

Who have seen it and judge the situation objectively see the truth indeed: MorphOS beats OS4 on the same HW on every area. Whining how "OS4 is not optimized for Pegasos 2" is getting a bit old now. OS4 still has no USB2 and lacks the proper 3D support, not to mention basic things such as proper support for AltiVec unit, working FAT, NTFS, ext2 or XFS filesystems or a proper console. I see no serious competition.

MorphOS is limited. No proper filesystems, no memory protection, no virtual memory, no enough ported applications. Best thing to do with MorphOS is to boot it to another OS.
On the other hand AmigaOS 4 fully replaced my AmigaOS 3 installation. I use AREXX scripts daily, they work the same way as they worked before. That's transparent upgrade.

[Piru]

The date of the post says 11-07-2009 (I guess this is american standard then). Shall I dig older posts where PowerBook support was announced.

Yes, please do.

Hurry up to delete them before they are found.

Uh what?

Not a public version for any laptop.

I've never stated otherwise.

All these major numberings are in fact minor updates.

By your definition maybe. That's far from the truth however.

MorphOS is limited. No proper filesystems

If your definition of a proper filesystem is one with support for >4GB files then we do have such filesystems. Several in fact.

no memory protection

The level of memory protection in MorphOS equals that of AmigaOS4.

no virtual memory

IMHO there's no need for virtual memory in amigoid system. At least I haven't found need for it. In fact we had VM many years ago (before AmigaOS4 even existed) but we found it quite useless in most real world usage scenarios.

no enough ported applications.

In your opinion. I'll rather have proper native applications such as OWB rather than half-as*ed linux ports such as Timberwolf.

You of course can keep on repeating your flawed claims ad infinitum if you wish. It won't make them any more true, however.

[Fab]

Not a public version for any laptop. All these major numberings are in fact minor updates.
AmigaOS 4 was shown X1000. Does this count or not?

Minor updates that added several new supported models, new features and bug fixes. Ok, let's call them minor updates.
Can you tell me how any OS4 update was major, now?

MorphOS is limited. No proper filesystems, no memory protection, no virtual memory, no enough ported applications. Best thing to do with MorphOS is to boot it to another OS.

Err, and how exactly is OS4 performing on these areas, exactly?
There's no memory protection, the virtual memory is best turned off because it's buggy as hell with some apps anyway. What's your proper filesystem?
And if you exclude SDL and cygnix 5 minutes jobs, how many proper ports do you have?

On the other hand AmigaOS 4 fully replaced my AmigaOS 3 installation. I use AREXX scripts daily, they work the same way as they worked before. That's transparent upgrade.

Just as they work on MorphOS... On the other hand Magellan still doesn't work on OS4.

[Fats]

Or that when OS3.X users examine PPC OS', they frequently choose MorphOS (over OS4)?

It's true that there is a very vocal number of MOS proponents here on amiga.org. But does is represent the majority of the amiga community ?
If you look at both the 'the way forward' poll as for 'the everyday OS' poll OS4.x comes ahead of MOS.
It's only by a small margin though but I don't think it supports the conclusion that only insane, retro zealots are using OS4 and the rest is using MOS (and I am sure these numbers will now change).

You probably know I have now a MOS MAC machine at home (and I am very gratefull to you for that BTW). So now I also follow MorphZone and with all the talk here on amiga.org I expected a bruising community there. After some weeks I don't have any prove that the MOS community is more bruising than the OS4 community (I also follow amigaworld.net).

greets,
Staf.

[HotRod]

Just as they work on MorphOS... On the other hand Magellan still doesn't work on OS4.

Regarding Magellan one could argue if it's better to have the functions of Magellan in the OS instead of runing an old, never to be upgraded replacement? I agree that it's good to have around while functions are lacking but the goal is to replace Magellan and not having to need it. I sure hope that it will be replaced (not talking just about AOS now).

[Fab]

Regarding Magellan one could argue if it's better to have the functions of Magellan in the OS instead of runing an old, never to be upgraded replacement? I agree that it's good to have around while functions are lacking but the goal is to replace Magellan and not having to need it. I sure hope that it will be replaced (not talking just about AOS now).

Sure, and Ambient actually takes inspiration from Magellan in many aspects.
But it's actually a greater concern for OS4 where the Workbench really shows its limitations as a filemanager or even modern desktop (despite all the commodities/patches trying to enhance it). Filer OS4 is a good step to have a proper file manager, but it should really be integrated in the workbench itself.

[HotRod]

Sure, and Ambient actually takes inspiration from Magellan in many aspects.
But it's actually a greater concern for OS4 where the Workbench really shows its limitations as a filemanager or even modern desktop (despite all the commodities/patches trying to enhance it). Filer OS4 is a good step to have a proper file manager, but it should really be integrated in the workbench itself.

I agree but AFAIK it's on their to-do list. Workbench in itself has limitations, no doubt. Yep filer are being used a lot :-) .

[takemehomegrandma]

@HotRod

I'd like to know why people using AOS 3 doesn't jump on the AOS 4 train? What is holding you back exactly?

You are saying "jump on the OS4 train" like it would be a natural thing to do for everyone. But it isn't.

Well, in order to make my point I'd like to start with a short summary of the Amiga evolution past OS 3.0:

1992 – Amiga OS 3.0 is released

1994 – Commodore stumble (and eventually falls in 1995). But they manage to get Amiga OS 3.1 in various ways, and distribution was further formalized by Escom when they took over in 1995.

1995-1996 – In the shadow of Commodore’s bankruptcy, a community driven effort to create an Open Source version of Amiga OS is formed; the Amiga Replacement Operating System (later “Amiga Research Operating System”, and even more later simply “AROS”). First AROS release announcement on usenet is from Aug 1996

1999 – Haage & Partner/Amiga Inc releases a new version of Amiga OS which contained many of the “hacks and patches” that most Amiga users had had to resolve to in order to get their Amiga’s to function in a more modern way.

2000 – The first public version of MorphOS is released for free download. It ran exclusively on Amiga’s back then, but the target was set for the upcoming Pegasos PPC computer.

2000 – Later that year a new version of Amiga OS is being released by Haage & Partner/Amiga Inc.

2004 – Hyperion releases the first “Pre-Release” version of their OS4.




Today and the future – We now have 4 different operating systems that people in the community uses daily; Amiga OS 3.x, AROS, MorphOS and OS4.

OS4 is PPC only, and Hyperion representatives has on numerous occasions publically denounced any kind of port of their OS to a different architecture than PPC. MorphOS is also tied to PPC, but nothing has been said about future migration. AROS is multi-platform and open source, which seem appealing to some.

But you can’t forget the fourth (or should I say *first*?) platform; the original (real) Amiga! And I think you could draw a line between this one, and the other three, since the other three is about SW only, while the first one also weight heavily on Amiga hardware. Enthusiasts of this flavor has continued to improve their OS in various ways (like we always did), and AROS is already helping somewhat here, and will continue to help even more in the future. We can call this branch "Amiga OS +", or why not "AOS+" or similar, in order to *not* breach anyones Trade Mark IP. Its about evolving the 68k Amiga OS.

In addition to Individual Computers (and others) efforts of bringing new technology standards and interfaces to the Amiga computers, there are also Various interesting HW projects are being made to *reimplement* the Amiga (like Minimig) and also *improve* it and *evolve* it (like Natami). These are real Amiga's, *not* in name only (in fact - not in name at all), but in *technology*.

And which one of the OS flavors will be of interest to these Amiga enthusiasts?

Well, from the Q&A section of Natami:
Q: "What operating systems will the Natami support?"
A: "Our target for supported operating systems are exclusively Amiga OS and AROS. All the clever features of the original Amiga hardware and Natami hardware can never be properly used by Linux."

So they want an OS that *fully* makes use of the new (and existing) Amiga hardware.

And no – "Amiga OS" does *not* mean OS4, for obvious reasons. Hyperion’s OS4 isn’t even on the map for these people, it couldn’t be more irrelevant. What is relevant is to continue to build on and improve the Amiga OS that works on real Amigas!

Hope you understand better now.

[killer]

Best thing to do with MorphOS is to boot it to another OS.

ah ah ah ah LOL :-D

[HotRod]

@HotRod



You are saying "jump on the OS4 train" like it would be a natural thing to do for everyone. But it isn't.

WTF was that?! Ehm... I asked because I wondered why and that was it? I know the history so I don't need a lesson. What do you want me to understand? I wonder why some are still using AOS 3.

I think you read things that aren't there.

[commodorejohn]

Blah, blah, blah. There are hardware requirements. Some games does not run on 512 KB Amigas. Probably they are not Amiga games by your definition.

Except that "classic Amiga" has always had a fairly definite definition to the community, to wit: original Amiga machines (1000-4000) running on 68k. Labeling another version of a PPC-only OS as "classic" is just another example of how tuned out from the community Hyperion are.

Defensive? I point obvious mistakes that are always brought to the forums, but as long as you have your AmigaOS 3 machine sitting next to your PC or Mac, I guess you don't need to upgrade.

Nope, guess I don't!

Oh look, there are sheep here as well :-)

"OS4: even sheep won't buy it!"