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Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Rediscovering Amithlon
« on: October 03, 2011, 08:15:02 PM »
Before you read on, please note that this is simply an overview of the last few weeks or so of my recent Amithlon use. There's nothing particularly exciting in here, but surely there's no harm in sharing good amiga related experiences with y'all?  :)

Anyway, it goes a little something like this:

 

As some of the regulars here may be aware Ive recently rebuilt an amithlon box and have been having a blast with it. Despite a few shortcomings OS3.x is still my favorite amiga system (Im one of those sadistic people who enjoys the almost d.i.y. nature of OS3.x and the thousands of choices a person has to handcraft thier OS). Given the speed amithlon provides, OS3.x is opened up to a plethora of new potential, and software types.

After spending a little time updating and modifying my OS3.9 setup Ive got it to a point that, functionality wise Im pretty content so have started actually using the system. As is often the case I typically test out the heavier software 1st, just to make sure Im content with my hardware choices.
EUAE worked nicely with ocs/ecs and aga. I could even play Breathless in 1x1 fullscreen (one of the heavier custom chipset only games). Xtreme Racing was silky smooth, and so on. Setup with E-UAELoad and a person can just install and launch custom hardware hitting software as normal.

FPSE (playstation1 emulator) also worked beautifully and at full speed with all games I tried.

PC-Task almost works very nicely, however being that amithlons 68k emulation and pc-tasks x86 emulation both use translation buffers and jit type emulation it alternates between full speed, pausing for a second or 2, then going turbo (to make up for the time where things pause). Quite a shame, as on the occasions it doesnt exhibit such behavior its blazingly fast (to a point that games like elder scrolls are too fast to be playable).

Quake1/2/NemacIV/Duke3d/etc. all run nicely, even at 1600x1200. NemacIV was interesting in that it needs to be played at higher resolutions or else things move much, much to fast (tapping forward as lightly as possible will send me flying down hallways). Duke3d for OS3.x is much slower than it needs to be (about 4x as slow as same game running on same hardware when using mac emulator and 68k mac version(on my a1200+'040 at least)), but I still get about 45fps at 1600x1200, which while playable is still MUCH slower than even Quake1 (about 75fps in 1600x1200), and still slower than Quake2(about 55 fps @1600x1200). Alien Breed3d2 moseys along at between 240 and 300fps according to the framerate counter when using the rtg patch.

Video however is a little problematic. 720p mp4's drop some frames using FFPlay. FroggerNG is much, much faster, but unfortunately a little unstable and doesnt play many newer video files (although still more than I expected given its age (even plays some video formats that werent around when it was developed (I guess they share enough similarities with some older codecs)). All in all still more than adequate for some casual viewing (if I want to watch something properly Ill watch it in the lounge on my TV).

Mame ran brilliantly. Ive created about a dozen custom screenmodes to match the resolutions of many mame games and other emulators, which for my tastes is better than using upscaling filters and whatnot. Ive not played a great deal of games, but Neo Geo games worked great (upto about 500% of normal speed when turning on the turbo mode). Apart from this I played powerdrift, outrun, tekken, MK3, and SF2:The Movie and all worked at full speed and full framerate.

STonX: Fantastic AtariST emulator, but waaaay too fast. Had to slow it down by a factor of more than 10. Little off topic, but this is the emulator to try for '040 and '060 owners. Hatari is great as well (effectively to the ST what uae is to the amiga), but too slow for "real" 68k machines.

Snes9X: Playing Donkey Kong Country and Fzero on OS3.x was for some reason quite novel. Works full speed, and while I cant say I was surprised by ths I was a little surprised by the stability and quality of the 68k port.

Payback: Great game. Ran very nicely at 1280x1024 (hadnt created a 1600x1200 mode when testing this). Was an interesting test too due to the warp3d rendering option. I had to drop back to 800x600 using wazp3d with eye candy enabled (mipmapping, texture filtering, anti aliasing, gl coloring, etc.), but it looks much nicer this way than at a higher resolution anyway.

Descent Freespace: Barely played it, but its super fast/smooth at 1600x1200. Definately a game I need to delve into properly one day.

ScummVM: While Novacoder's recent versions are a little faster than some of the older amiga ports Ive been using 10.2 (iirc) as it supports many more games. Broken Sword2 on 68k Amiga... yeah baby!  :)


Seems everytime I start using amithlon again I forget just why I enjoyed it so much last time. For my tastes it really is the perfect combo of old and new. With this last upgrade of my amithlon box it's finally smoothed out those rough edges that still existed on my old  athlon64 amithlon machine. I dont think Ive enjoyed anything amiga related as much since I got a "new" a1200 + accelerator 9 or 10 months ago :)

Is there anytthing else people can think of that might be interesting to test out on an OS3.x system with some decent cpu grunt? Also, what OS3.x enhancements would people recommend when hardware resources arent a big issue? Im currently just using the more typical stuff (mui/afa_os/afa_zune/magicmenu2/bb1+2).

Thanks in advance and thanks for listening
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2011, 09:13:03 PM »
Once Ive finished fooling around testing stuff I'll definately be doing some compiles of software Im interested in (already done a quick/nasty compile of Dosbox 0.74 for 68k/os3.x). MUI-OWB is something I'll be looking at, although I have a sneaking suspicion it'll be a bigger job for OS3.x than it is/was for OS4.x and/or AROS.

@anyone_who_can_tell_me
Does an OS3.x version of Cairo exist for example ? Also, is there any core functionality in MUI3.9 that doesnt exist for MUI3.8, or is it mostly just some different classes? In a nutshell, what dependencies are lacking for a 68k version of MUI-OWB?
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 09:16:50 PM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 06:02:53 AM »
@Xdelusion

Unfortunately I dont have USB working yet. This is something I still need to look into, but thus far hasnt been a big priority. For data transfer I just use my network and for joystick support I use something that is effectively a joypad shaped keyboard that plugs into ps2 connector. USB keyboards and mice are working without a USB stack.

As for graphics modes, it sounds like one of two things. The kernel, or amithlonupdate not having been applied. Have you updated the kernel, and if so to which version? Kernel3.10 is fine, and actually what I use on my core2duo@3.86ghz/matrox g550/sb audigy amithlon box. If 3.10 isnt ideal for you though perhaps try kernel4.
Feel free to ask me to elaborate if need be. I just dont want to write too many things about it here at once as it could potentially confuse things :)

Just a thought, but perhaps a more upto date amithlon guide might be of interest to some people? Most of the info out there is somewhat outdated (although some is still quite relevant too).
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2011, 06:21:24 AM »
@XDelusion

Responded to PM. As for Amigasys for amithlon, it's kinda nice. I tried it out some time back. To each thier own, but personally I like to do things myself so I know my system inside out.

Oh, also quick sidebar, but if youre finding harddrive access is a little slow under amithlon try setdma (a tool included in kernel3.10 archive). I guess Id been lucky with all my amithlon boxes previously and not needed it, but this time around I found small pauses in the system (lack of DMA) when accessing harddrives, not to mention harddrive access was at around 500KB/ps. Using SetDMA Ive now reached up to 166MB/ps for drive access (although its typically closer to 30MB/ps), pauses are gone, and stability of system overall has improved.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2011, 08:34:03 AM »
Seems I was mistaken about Duke3d. There's a few options to tweak it that make a huge difference. At 320x240 I now get between 640 and 960 frame per second (hard to tell as once it gets beyond 320fps it doesnt keep as precise an account of framerate, but rather fluctuates up and down in increments of 320. It stays on 960 mostly, but does drop to 640 on occasion. Quake2 at the same resolution gives me a consistant 296 to 297.5 frame per seconds. Now I just need to tune things an extra 2% so I can crack the 300fps mark  :) Not that these sorts of framerates are necessary (nor do I actually play 3d games at this resolution), but theyre good tests to be able to tune/tweak a system  :)

It really doesnt means a lot, but Id be curious to see framerates for these games on "NG" Amiga systems. The only one I have access to is AROS, which unfortunately lacks a Duke3d port.

On the off chance anyone is interested to test Duke3d framerates simply type "dnrate" at any point during the game. This will place a framerate counter in the top left corner of the screen.

Also, can anyone tell me how to benchmark Doom please ?
Thanks in advance :)
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2011, 08:35:07 PM »
In my experiences the biggest stumbling block with amithlon live booting is RAM. It simply doesnt work with more than 1gig/1.5gig (the latter is rare though). It is possible to set ram to a specified amount in the bootloader script, but even this doesnt always work. It's also not uncommon for amithlon not to boot without an updated kernel (which requires it to be installed to harddrive) on machines from after the athlon/athlonxp and latter half of the p4 era (later p4's arent too far removed from a different platform to earlier ones, even if they do share the same name).

BIOS settings can also be a bit of a stumbling block. Try setting harddrives to legacy mode if using sata for example.

I'd be lying if I said amithlon was always easy to get running, but more often than not with some perseverance it is possible, and once its up and running well worth the effort (in my opinion at least).

As for the status of Amithlon, it was, as you had thought discontinued for legal reasons. There is however a portion of it that is open source, and due to the way amithlon works under the hood the parts that arent dont really need touching.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2011, 11:12:37 AM »
I used to dual boot between aros and amithlon on the same box, and had to swap between sata and legacy modes to get either system to boot (I used seperate drives for each os and just changed boot device in bios rather than using a bootloader). Never had a problem myself, but computers are funny creatures sometimes  :)

As for my amithlon box specs:

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L motherboard, core2duo@3.86ghz, matrox g550 video card, sb audigy. Im using the pata connector to run both dvd-rom and hdd though, as while hdtoolbox will detect a drive running off sata it refuses to boot for me, even if I set up bootloader on a pata drive.

In theory most 945/965/p35/g31/g33 based motherboards should work (Ive also used a GA-945GZM-S2 and Asus P5KPL board for core2duo systems with amithlon, and a K8M800 athlon64 board). I dont have any of the other older systems still, so cant really give specifics to anything older than those.
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.
 

Offline fishy_fizTopic starter

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Re: Rediscovering Amithlon
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 04:37:40 AM »
@XDelusion

Im using FPSE on amithlon/aros and mos. Seems pretty much identical across the board (altough runs best on AROS obviously).
Also, I dont use a usb stack on amithlon. For data transfer I just use the network and for joysticks I use a ps2 joypad (the connector, not the console (although coincidently its much the same as a psx2 joypad :)). It's basically a joypad shaped keyboard, each button is a different key.

Edit: just reread your post, and yes youre right, AROS version doesnt work with joypads. It was compiled before some lowlevel.lib fixes where implemented. A recompile would be great, along with recompiles of plug-ins (hardware acceleration for example, which also didnt exist at the time of the port).
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 04:45:43 AM by fishy_fiz »
Near as I can tell this is where I write something under the guise of being innocuous, but really its a pot shot at another persons/peoples choice of Amiga based systems. Unfortunately only I cant see how transparent and petty it makes me look.