Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: PC still playing Amiga catchup  (Read 217624 times)

Description:

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #44 from previous page: June 15, 2009, 08:58:51 PM »
Quote from: amigaksi;511416
You must be on drugs if you think doing serial access via 201h is going to outdo the Amiga's move instruction.  USB would be faster than 201h serial protocol.  And we're not trying to surpass 1khz.  Which is faster is the point.  1Khz is not the top limit for Amiga--  that was another subject regarding some applications requiring 1Khz sampling.


Hi,

@Amigaski,

How did you know I was on drugs, I just got back from the dentist after having 2 molars pulled and she gave me some wonderful drugs that puts me in la la land, but I am not la la'ed out as much as you are.

Using the Algorithm that the human body can sense, even if the PC was running at 500 hz the eyes would not see any change in the movement of the cursor even though the Amiga's joystick port was moving at a hz speed of 50% faster. In this case the human body (eyes) would sense a faster movement only if the difference in speed was 3 times faster. Which means that you are probably correct, the joystick does move faster but the human eyes would not see it until it was moving at least 3 times the speed of the PC joytick.  In other words just for the heck of it, try this:

Hook yourself up to a 1000V, then 3000V, then 9000V, they 27000V and then tell me at what voltage that your body has sensed a change in?

Then come back with an answer.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2009, 09:10:53 PM »
Quote from: Fanscale;511425
The brute force approach.

Killer Nic:

http://www.bigfootnetworks.com/bandwidth-vs-latency

Just in case you haven't drooled over it already.


Hi,

@Fanscale

Didn't you start this thread?

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2009, 09:16:41 PM »
Quote from: Trev;511424
If you didn't draw it on an Amiga using quick palette swapping and high frequency joystick sampling, it's off topic. Sorry. :-(


Hi,

@Trev,

Are you going to surrender the ship, are you going to quit, even though he is totally wrong, are you going to let this misguided person win this debate, are you ready, willing and able to accept defeat and admit that the PC still playing Amiga catchup?

What have these boards come to?

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2009, 06:12:43 AM »
Quote from: amigaksi;511724
There may be move toward USB, but the fact that they left certain ports in while eliminating gameport should indicate they are trying to improve gaming interface.  I.e., they are admitting gameport sucks and user is better off using another interface.  Newer audio cards also aren't using gameport although it was built-in into many audio cards.


Hi,

@Amigaski & Stefcep2,

Speaking of Amiga joysticks my joystick broke for my Amiga 4000 today so off I went to Wally world to get a new one and you know what I couldn't find one darned 9 pin joystick in the whole darned place, so that makes my joystick port mighty slow as a matter of fact not really moving.

Now lets talk about moving blitters, sprites, graphics etc.

I have a 250 mhz ppc in my Amiga 1200, now even though my ppc is moving at 250 mhz, what is the speed of my aga chipset, could it possibly be 14 mhz or the original board frequency. Which means as far as graphics go my ppc is sitting there waiting for a reply from my AGA chipset and it is doing absolutely nothing. So as you can see one of the main problems of the Amiga was that you could increase the speed of the CPU but you still had the problem of all the rest of the board moving S L O W L Y.

Now we come down to the joystick, since the Amiga uses the mouse port as a joystick port they are one and the same, what can this possibly mean, not to many ways to upgrade, this could be one of the reasons that the Amiga died the original designers of the Amiga which started out building a great game console left no room for advancement so as a game machine of that time era it was the greatest thing since greased bananas but in time the greased banana slowly became clogged with dirt and just couldn't move as fast and it became obvious that it would cost too much to clean it and regrease it to keep up with the new banana's on the block.

Now I can add more memory on the PPC board and I can add a graphics extender and then  a new graphics card on that ppc board but is it really worth the cost to expand it if I could find the parts to do that today. The answer is not likely, it would be cheaper to buy a new modern up to date computer, this leaves me with 2 options, a PC and an Apple, since PC's are the least expensive and the easiest to find parts for I chose the PC. Now it we look at the Apple, it is expensive, and once again I am left to the mercy at having a specialized computer that after a couple of years would be obsolete, and not only that but I am controlled by the manufacturer about what I can use in it as far as upgrades and what kind of software I can use on it, and not only that but the maker of apple thinks that everybody that uses it is an idiot and makes it so that you can make close to no changes to the system, which keeps me from playing with it like I would like to. In other words the Apple computer is for those people that just want to turn it on. use it and then turn it off. Not my idea of using a computer, I like to experiment and try things on them, and I have crashed and burned more than one computer. I have 3 dead Amiga's and 3 dead CD 32 cards as proof of my insane ideas and I am not going into the PC's that I have crashed and burned.

Now for you PC users, I have had run about 3 contests a year for the last 3 years of PC users saying that there was no way that my 25 mhz machine could beat there 2.2 dual core and quad core babies in doing certain applications, like downloading files off the internet, printing a letter, playing music, and playing video, formatting a floppy, or backing up some files off a hard disk or transferring files from one hard disk to another hard disk, doing a 10 picture slide show and then playing at least one round of a tetris like game where we turned on our computers on at the same time, well I hate to say this but not even a quad core could beat the Amiga at these tasks, not only did I play the game of tetris but I usually wound up playing the game soliton while I waited for those fast over rated windows based PC's to get finished, seems most of them ran into trouble during the format and transfer of files to the floppy disk, while the Amiga cruised past them using diskmaster  to format and copy stuff to the floppy disks and hard disks. I know you PC users will yell foul, but it is what it is, in real time with all that horse power the PC sucks. Now I have never had a Linux user challenge this because lets face it, there just aren't two many of them, and Apple users, a total waste of good electricity, I don't even think they know what multi tasking is, and if they had it they sure nuff didn't know how to use it, Apple users have to be the most incompetent computer users in the world.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2009, 06:55:57 AM »
Quote from: the_leander;511739
I'd flunk smerfs test - I don't have a floppy drive ;)


Hi,

@the_leander

Know what you mean, the last 2 people that took the challenge I had to lend them my usb floppy drive, in a way I cheated on this since most PC's almost shut down when trying to format a floppy disk and write to them. It is just one of those area's where the Amiga excels by its hardware design. Another area is playing music while they are trying to do this stuff, playing music really put a hit on the PC's CPU and even though we are tasked with playing 10 songs, most PC users try to copy me and use multi tasking while playing the music, but when they do that it puts a pretty good hit on their system, even dual cores slow down a little when trying this. OK, I rigged the thing a little bit, but they all agreed to the terms, and they all lost. The major thing is, that most of them till this day can't believe that a 25 mhz machine, with a 2 gig hard drive, and 18 megs of memory completed all those tasks before their machine, as a matter of fact the first time I did this was against a 1.1 ghz PC with windows 2000, I had everything done before he even got his destop screen up. It was my best victory. I loved it.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2009, 07:55:14 AM »
Quote from: Karlos;511745
There has to be something wrong with their machines if they can't play back 10 audio streams concurrently. Most current generation games will throw a few dozen audio streams together at any given instant and find plenty of time to render some eye popping visuals.


Hi,

@Karlos,

P poor planning mostly on their part, they tried to copy me by putting on music, trying to format their floppy drive, and then trying to copy files from one hard drive to another while downloading files off the internet at the same time, try it on your PC and see what happens, I know when I try to format a floppy on my machine it sort of clogs up the whole buss lines and renders the computer almost useless. Some things just never change on a PC.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2009, 08:34:57 PM »
Quote from: the_leander;511747
Oddness. Formatting floppies, even on win2k always seemed fine on my athlonxp system (which is... 4PC's ago), then again I did set it so that each explorer window ran in it's own individual thread, which improved multitasking performance (not to mention stability) no end.

So, what exactly were the terms for this challenge?

I mean, was it a from boot race or?? Just curious.


Hi,

It was just a task race, the rules were that he would pick a task, then I would pick a task, we would pick about 10 tasks and see who would get done first, from the time we hit the on switch to the finish time. Like some people would pick a video ( we had to pick one that both machines could play) download certain files, format a floppy and then fill it with some files, backup a hard drive, or copy files from one hard drive to another, you know common everyday tasks that people do with their computers. I mean there were somethings that he would pick that it would be impossible for the Amiga to do, and then there were somethings that I would pick that a PC couldn't do (like running windows for a whole year without a crash). Now today I don't know if the Amiga could compete with the new Quad Core or the new Intel 7 chip. I know that one test formatting a hard drive and running programs off of another fell through since the sata drives came out. I used to like the one on partitioning a 2 gig partition on hard drive and formatting it, it took the PC forever to do this or doing a defrag on a hard drive.  Yep one of these days I may make up a list and have my son run my Quad Core and I will run the Amiga to see which one wins. By the way have you noticed I haven't said Apple at all.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2009, 08:39:37 PM »
Quote from: Fanscale;511605
Look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiIr2oJZ0l4

amigaksi vs PC users


Hi,

@Fanscale

That was great, I could see Amigaski now, walking into a pc store and blowing away every PC there, while screaming.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2009, 08:45:48 PM »
Quote from: Hammer;511520
My dual core 2.2 Ghz CPU eats around 35Watts.


Hi,

@Hammer,

Would you care to repharase that, your CPU may use 35 watts, but what size is your power supply, your video card, your audio chips or card, your hard drive, your CD-ROM player (or DVD) your memory, your USB ports, and your fancy little cpu cooler.

add them all up

and your computer is probably equal to one heck of a room heater
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2009, 09:11:37 PM »
Quote from: amigaksi;511550
Stop the bullcrap; you're just serving as a biased sidekick like some others.  Be objective and perhaps  you will see such a clear cut point.


Hi,

@amigaksi,

Like what that the joystick is faster than a PC's, sorry I don't use one in any of the latest games that I have purchased. Listen if you alter the tests in your favor than any computer can beat the other one, I do this to unsuspecting PC users who have never seen an Amiga and then I try to pick the PC's weakest points just so them there suckers can be destroyed by a 25 mhz machine. Its just so much fun, which computer do I like better, well if a crook tried to rob me and he asked me which computer he shoul steal, I would probably say take the PC, it is one of the latest greatest computers on the market today, just check out the stores,  and you will be able to pawn it for more money. That old yellowing white computer there was made in 1993 and is only 25 mhz, it is so old that you can't even use windows on it but I mean if you want to take the time and effort to carry it out, you are the crook.

Why would I do that, because I still can get another Quad Core, but darn it sure would be hard to get another Amiga.

Face it Amigaksi, even I one of the first 5 people in the Jacksonville FL area to buy an Amiga knows that it has seen better days, the hardware is old, the OS is old and by trickery we can make the Amiga beat unwary PC users. Heck I haven't written a program in about 10 years, I have all my programming books for the Amiga in a box up in the attic, I have about 10 boxes full of Amiga parts, boards etc. I have about 12 disk boxes, and 5 disk file boxes full of Amiga programs, and yes some where up there I have 3 different joysticks and one competition gamepad for the Amiga, also a CD32 with a SX-1, 2 A3000,
one A1200 with a ppc 250 card, an amiga 500 an Amiga 1000 board (my wife chucked my other 1000 since the day she sat down naked in front of my 1080 monitor and said do you know what this means, and I answered, yes your blocking my monitor, women just get angry about nothing) and then my A4000 which sits on my desk still using it might add. Our only hope is that Mr. Bill McEwen makes an Amiga OS for the barebone PC.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #54 on: June 17, 2009, 09:17:12 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;511755
But Smerf don't you get their standard reply yet:  "they don't use a floppies, so they don't format them, they don't care, it doesn't matter.  PC wins"


Hi,

@stefcep2,

I know the reason PC's got rid of floppy drives is that when they format them it drags down out 2.4 ghz CPU and brings the computer to a stand still.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #55 on: June 17, 2009, 09:28:35 PM »
Quote from: Fanscale;511780
I feel cheated the floppy has been left behind... Oh wait you can have adf files.

2GB USB flash drive ~$15. Pack of ten floppy disks ~$5. PC floppy drive ~$15

I think that is the definition of obsolete.


Notice: To be taken as directed. Please read the label and consult a Doctor if symptoms persist.


Hi,

@Fanscale,

Wow, we can tell your rich, because you shop the high class stores, or maybe you don't know how to shop, I just bought 2  2 gig usb flash drives for $9.95, thats 4 gig of CF drive space for $9.95 and not used either. As far as floppies, I just go through the dumpsters in back of the computer stores, sometimes dumpster diving could bring you some surprising stuff, like four 1.1ghz computers with 30 gig hard drives and 512 mbyte memory. @ external scsi enclosures, and over 500 floppy disks of which 100 where of the 720 K brand.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #56 on: June 17, 2009, 11:16:12 PM »
Quote from: stefcep2;511769
Too funnny!!  We now have a "good" and "bad" side of the catch up game.  Floppies are still being made and still being used..on PC's.  Never ever saved any amiga program to an audio cassette ( can it be done)


Hi,

@stefcep2,

Yes it can, just get a stereo phono plug, plug it in the stereo output of the Amiga, and then take the other side and plug it into your cassette player. You know have a way to record the tracks of analog music to your cassette player.

Oh, you said programs, hmmm this might be a tough one, I do know that they had made a backup program that used to save / backup your programs to a video cassette recorder (VCR) and I believe Amiga Computing had the plans in one of their rags on how to build it, but darn the magazines were one of the things my wife chucked during the move.  I am sure that with a little modification you could probably record it to a cassette tape because I know that back in 1978 I built one for the C64, it wasn't that hard to build either.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #57 on: June 17, 2009, 11:31:22 PM »
Quote from: koaftder;511774
AGAIN.  ANSWER THE QUESTION:  DO DIFFERENT PRECOMPILED SCHEDULER MODULES EXIST AND CAN THEY BY SIMPLY DROPPED INTO THE LINUX KERNEL?  IF SO WOULD THE AVERAGE USER PREFER THIS TO A SIMPLE DOUBLE-CLICK INSTALLATION?


Average user doesn't care one way or the other. Average user doesn't even know what a scheduler is. Folks who do care are usually configuring machines to provide services, and a kernel recompile is a hell of a lot easier to deal with than tweaking apache or mysql for optimal performance.[/QUOTE]

Hi,

at  [-f filename] [-l] [-m] [-d job [job ...]] TIME

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #58 on: June 19, 2009, 10:51:41 PM »
Quote from: Trev;511876
OK, you know that was a silly comment. Of course Windows can run for a year without a "crash." You're not likely to run a video player or a game on consumer grade hardware for a year without a crash, but you're also not expecting 100% uptime under those conditions.


Hi,

UHHHH, Maybe if you only use a Windows installed computer once or twice a year, come to think of it I have never seen a Windows computer that is used every day go without at least 2 crashes a year, that is why the place where I work has an IT department staffed with about 200 personnel, they are either fixing computers or re-installing windows on them. My one last thought, would you board an aircraft if you knew that windows was running all the digital instrumentation on it?, or would you drive a auto if you knew windows was running your auto computer?

Now my A4000 which gets turned on for use at least twice a week hasn't crashed since 1993 and still has my data on it since then, and I must admit my 2 gig hard drive is getting quite full, I still have about 1.2 gig free for use, might be another 10 years and I will have to think about installing a larger hard drive.

PC users can you claim this?

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better
 

Offline smerf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1666
    • Show all replies
Re: PC still playing Amiga catchup
« Reply #59 on: June 19, 2009, 11:08:12 PM »
Quote from: Hammer;511938
It's a Q1 2008 "gaming" 15.4"  laptop. According RMclock, the entire system consumes around 25 watts to 55 watts.


Hi,

@Hammer

Ok, I would probably buy that, I keep forgetting a lot of people use laptops, even though they are unexpandable, slow, have poor graphics, and the only way to improve them is to buy a new one, I am not knocking you, I have a laptop too, a toshita satlite. I run Ubuntu 8.04 on it because I got tired of waiting for 35 minutes for it to boot up, and then another 10 minutes for it to call up Internet Explorer. With Ubuntu it cut down the load time to about 5 minutes and about a minute load time for FireFox. Sometimes i would rather use a C64, it booted and loaded faster.

smerf
I have no idea what your talking about, so here is a doggy with a small pancake on his head.

MorphOS is a MAC done a little better