potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP

[Louis Dias]

adolescent wrote:

lou_dias wrote:

I find it interesting that none of you are OS4 developers but Hyperion says they can run it on a cell phone but you people say it can't run on the Gamecube.

Next some troll will tell me that cellphones have had 256MB of memory for years...

Actually, some do.  But, that's beside the point.

The experience of running "OS4" on the mobile phone wouldn't be the same as running it on a full fledged computer.  Just like your running of Internet Explorer on a PDA isn't the same as running it on a real PC.  

You're comparing apples to oranges here.  If you want to run a PDA/smart phone type OS and apps on your GCN then the 24MB just might work (although, it would be even more limited than current PDAs/smart phones).  But, if you want to run the real desktop OS then you'll be very short of memeory.

Actually what you just said is what I've been saying for the last 2 pages.

The experience may not be ideal or fully functional.  But doable.  Games can be played.  Email can be checked.  Obviously you are not going to do video editing or anything complicated like that.  But get the OS in the hands of users with a trade-up coupon for a fuller version when suitable hardware exists.

It's everybody else that when you mention "OS 4" that has visions of it being the be-all-end-all of OSes that can do anything.

Why won't Hyperion port it?  Yes, I know the answer.  Because every troll and their troll-sibings posts on this thread and says "it's impossible so stop dreaming about it".  If instead, users who just wanted to get it in there hands came on here and said they'd like to see it (which a few have, but not enough) then you'd have a potential market for it.

Ofcourse I've seen many a similar (albeit, shorter) thread on this site where someone mentions a new idea and it gets beat up to death by people who have no involvement in the issue other than they want to emphasize there opinions as facts and look quite knowledgeable...boosting their egos for no apparent reason other than they have nothing better to do.

[Louis Dias]

mr_khyron wrote:
Soon we have a cheap PPC Amiga,

It´s the ACK PowerVixxen, so drop your GC dream now  :-P

Well, the price is right but you really need to move on from being tied down to classic hardware.  Is the 1200 just the addon card to the PV or what?  You will still have to buy a custom tower to put that in.

a graphics-card via a Mini PCI-slot

good luck finding a descent video card with that "miniPCI" interface, did you add that to the cost?

In the end, what will look like a bigger hack?  Atleast the GC doesn't require a 14 year old A1200.

I've detailed the GC costs as below $200 + the cost of OS4(Lite).

Your PowerVixxen calls for:
$299 final cost of finish product including OS4 (supposedly)
$??? A1200
$??? miniPCI video card

if you don't want to use an A1200:

Something worth a mention is the design of a terminator, which features among other things sockets for mouse, keyboard, sound and so on.

Who's designed one?  Oh and let me use this classic troll-line: "Where's the drivers?", "Where's the documentation?"...

A dedicated psu ($30) is required as well if you run it with no A1200.

Now, I don't find it hard to believe that these guys can created a motherboard with these features for under $200 of manufacturing costs.  (lord knows why Eyetech couldn't...)
But if Hyperion isn't doing the hardware porting themselves because they feel they can sell alot of copies of OS4, I don't think that pricetag covers the software coding integration of OS4 with this hardware.

Oh I almost forgot that the cpu in the GC offers 1125 Dmips (Dhrystone 2.1) as wells as SIMD instructions.

They are selling you the integrated freescale chip (which comes built-in with the features they mention.  You can see the specs for it here: :rtfm:
http://www.freescale.com/files/microcontrollers/doc/data_sheet/MPC5200.pdf

you can compare them to the GC here: :rtfm:
http://www.nintendo.com/techspecgcn

escpecially don't forget to compare cache memory...

Other than having a high system ram (512MB) and an IDE interface, the GC runs circles around it in total system cost and performance of memory resident apps...  Like I said, good luck finding a "miniPCI" vidoe card that can actually do 3d in a 480p display.  :-D

Again, show me an app that requires more than 24MB of RAM to run, (other than a "fully" functioning modern browser) then you can justify needing more memory than that.

[Louis Dias]

koaftder wrote:

lou_dias wrote:
http://devkitpro.sourceforge.net/devkitProWiki/libogc/a00144.html

That's a link that describes the aram.h header file for accessing the 'Cube's 16MB of audio RAM.  Yes, that is the hoop you jump through to access it.  As anyone with basic understanding of programming can see, a simple function call can copy data from memory there or copy data there to memory just by specifying the 2 address ranges and a direction.

very unusable indeed

feel free to browse the rest of the supposed non-existant documentation...

It's just a stack. A 16MB stack. The way the library is written makes it unsuitable for multiple processes to use this space.

Even if you did adapt a malloc lib to use that space, and made a super easy wrapper to fetch/store data there, you wouldnt end up with 16mb of space there, as you would still want some memory avaiable for the sound support.

Suppose you leave 4mb for the sound and use the 12MB as heap space for processes though a seperate malloc implimentation. What is going to motivate a programmer to jump through hoops to fetch some memory out of a measly 12mb block, and jump through more hoops passing data back and forth from it? The code wouldnt be portable, and most applications would never be adapted to use it as it would be too much work and almost no benefit anyway.

Scarfing memory from other subsystems was clever 15 years ago, these days it's kind of a waste of time. I can find a system better suited for aros or linux from a near by trashcan ( with 4 times the memory of a game cube! )

The hoops you mention are a function call.
Let's look at video editing.  How does that happen.
Well, usually a frame at a time.
Do you think that the entire video is loaded into memory or are a certain amount buffered.  That's exactly what you would use that memory for.  You define a simple allocation table, then request x amount of memory allocate for your "worksspace".  This is what happens with "main" memory now.  The OS is a memory mamanger.  Only difference is now is has a separate/extra bank of memory to reserve and allocate.  It could happen at the kernel level and unless you are "banging the hardware" an application programmer doesn't need to worry about it unless their app occuppies 24 MB of physical memory.  99.9% of Amiga apps will run in well under 2mb of memory.

All a cpu knows about is what's in it's cache.  The OS is responsible for the rest.  Don't get it mixed up.

[Louis Dias]

@koaftder

About 8 years ago I did set up gcc on my CD32 + SX-1 Amiga OS 3.1 system because I was taking a C++ class in school.  I also bought the GameSmith C/C++ development system.  In that, I remember a function that allocated memory and I also remember being able to specify chip ram always or fastram if available...or something to that effect.  So I don't see this situation as anything different.

As a programmer, you want to bang the hardware, you use the function I showed you.  As an application developer, you use the API you are provided to make OS compliant software.

The concerns you have about performance are only relevant when you are either using a 20 year old machine with low processing power or are creating an A+ video game.

When "running" application, 99% of cpu time is wasted waiting for user input.

On a side note, the GC has the most cache of that generation of game machines and that is what helps it perform better than it's clock speed shows it can.  The same will be true of Revolution (rumors are 2MB).  Can you imagine that?

[Louis Dias]

adolescent wrote:

lou_dias wrote:

I find it interesting that none of you are OS4 developers but Hyperion says they can run it on a cell phone but you people say it can't run on the Gamecube.

Next some troll will tell me that cellphones have had 256MB of memory for years...

Actually, some do.  But, that's beside the point.

You've made a claim.  Prove it.

[Louis Dias]

koaftder wrote:

I can immagine that when it comes out we will have some asinine discussion about porting amiga os to the new nintendo platform. Of course you will focus much on some obscure capability of the microprocessor and make lots of comments about programming concepts you dont understand.

Probably.   :-D

[Louis Dias]

Hattig wrote:
What it shows is that a PowerPC system that will sell in the millions (around 20 million for the Gamecube) can be sold for $99 retail and probably still makes a profit.

The Gamecube is too limited for a general purpose computer however (although I had considered it before as a nice AmigaOS platform). Now the XBox360 ... three 3.2GHz PowerPC cores, 512MB memory, Hard drive (SATA), DVD drive (SATA), high end graphics - that'd be a nice hardware platform. Still, it is being sold at a significant loss right now - given the retailer markup it must be at least $200 to Microsoft per console.

I'd rather that the company making this neat A1200 accellerator just made a standard MiniITX sized motherboard, with a full PCI slot and maybe some useful PCI devices like a SATA controller, good audio chip, and so on.

As for PDA/Mobile Phone applications, I think AmigaOS would be a great match.

Yeah, the x360 has everything you would want.  when it's not overheating.  Estimates are that they are losing about $125.  We stand to benefit so that's no sweat off my back.  But from what I hear, an in order executing processor is not ideal for the desktop.  I think the Cell in the PS3 uses an O-o-O core.  I expect Nintendo's Revolution to use an Out-of-Order exectuing cpu as well with lots of cache and excellent branch prediction.  They are touting their games system as a platform to better gaming through a better interface and A.I.  The 360 is just an XBOX with even better graphics, same gameplay experience.

Recently, the PS3 has been losing some steam.  Rumors are that it will be delayed further.  Don't expect a March '06 release.  Revolution development news has been good and it's picking up ALOT of developer support now.  I expect it will hit US shelves well before the PS3 and not too long after E3 2006.  The cpu was just finished a week or 2 ago and is being shown to developers now.  I have a thread in the OT Entertainment section of this site about that.

Sony seems to throw alot of marketing B.S. around when it comes to the Playstation line of products.  Forinstance, the PSP downclocks to 200MHz for alot of applications.  A far cry from the 300MHz it advertises.  Also, the slimline PS2 is not 100% backwards compatible with the PS1.  I don't expect the PS3 to be 100% backwards compatible with the PS2 and PS1 either.  They also said the PS2 would be alot more powerful than the DC...  Yeah that was almost true.  Also if you believe that the PS3 can do a dual screen 1080p 120fps display.  While I don't doubt the capability, I doubt the application.  I don't think it will have the power to play games like that but maybe a static screen...but if it's static, why would you need 120fps.  More marketing b.s...

Only thing I can really knock Nintendo for is not supporting high definition resolutions.  Ever since Iwata took over, they have been solid with there promises.  No B.S.

[Louis Dias]

Waccoon wrote:

Lou:  You've made a claim. Prove it.

You're an expert in this area, eh?

You could always follow your own advice, and "look it up yourself."

I think the Cell in the PS3 uses an O-o-O core. I expect Nintendo's Revolution to use an Out-of-Order exectuing cpu as well with lots of cache and excellent branch prediction

Think?  Don't you look these things up?  Is the info even out there right now?

That's why you are what I've always said you are.  You made the claim, YOU need to back it up.  Otherwise stop trolling this thread.  As far as Cell's ppc core being an O-o-O processing cpu, it's what I recall from memory comparing the 360 to the PS3 sometime between the Game developer's summit in March and E3 in May.  Since a Cell-based product doesn't exist yet, it's really quite irrelevant.

Funny how you think lots of cache on the Revolution CPU is a big plus, but the lack of RAM in Gamecube is no big deal, especially with the 68K emulation going on.  I seem to recall that few Amiga apps are PowerPC native.

It's a well known fact that more cache improves performance.  Also the GC has more cache than the PS2 or Xbox.  68k emulation is no big deal.  There are open source 68k emulators and there is currently a homebrew GC developer writing one.  Also there is already a port of a Sega Genesis emulator (which incase you forgot, is a 68000 based machine) on the GC homebrew scene.  So I don't see 68k emualtion as an issue and besides, I don't care about backwards compatibility anyway when it comes to Amiga, I already have that in WINUAE.

Forinstance, the PSP downclocks to 200MHz for alot of applications. A far cry from the 300MHz it advertises.

...and it scales up to 333Mhz for some applications.  It also downclocks to 1Mhz.  It scales to save power, not to screw-over consumers.  Your point?

My point is there marketing.  What's your point?  They make it sound like a PSP is as powerful as a PS2 and it can be...for about 1 1/2 hours, then you need fresh batteries again.

Also, the slimline PS2 is not 100% backwards compatible with the PS1.

Most of the time that's because developers don't follow programming guidelines.  Early titles tend to have the most problems.

What is the compatibility, BTW?  15%?  25%?  I own 22 PSX games and they all work with my PS2.  Currently, 0% of native N64 games work with Gamecube.

22 games out of about 1200 isn't enough to make a basis on.  There are some articles on the 'net' about which ones don't work and we'll really never know ALL the ones that don't work because nobody is gonna has the entire catalog in there possesion to try.  The exact number is irrelevant.  The fact that it's not 100% is the point.

Actually the 2 Zelda N64 games released on the GC as a ore-order bonus for pre-ordering Zelda:The Wind Waker were emualtor based.  Infact hackers have ripped it and injected there own N64 roms to play other N64 games on the GC.

Funny you should criticize Sony on this issue, seeing how they basicly started the trend of backwards compatibility in the console industry.  Before Revolution, Nintendo's compatibility abilites were limited to their portable systems, and to run anything on Revolution, you will have to re-license any games released prior to Gamecube.  Paying for software you already own is not backwards compatibility.

No they didn't.  The Gameboy Color was b/c with Gameboy as has been every Gameboy product since.

And it you really wanna go way back, Atari's 7800 was backwards compatible with the 2600.  And the Atari 5200 had a plug-in module for 2600 backwards compatibility.

Plus, we don't know how Gamecube games work on Revolution.  I'm most concerned about how GC mini-discs will work with a full-sized, slot-loaded DVD drive.  There are slot-load drives that will take 80mm discs, but they are quite rare.

I'll refrain from commenting on the cartridge issue for N64.  Everyone knows what happened, there.

3" discs rare?  Yeah, Ok.  3" CDs and DVDs have been around a long time.  Look at the center 3" of you PC's DVD player,  they all support them.  Ritek it the preferred brand for GC pirates.

As far as Revolution's front loading drive supporting drive supporting them, it's no major technological feat.  My car's in dash player pulls the disc in after only inserting it in about an inch.  All you need is some moveable guides to move in or out for a 3" or 5" disc.

As for the catride issue...so what, it happened, it's been over with for 7 years.  It's the same issue MS is going through now with not going to HD-DVD.  Elder Scrolls is supposedly on 4 DVDs right now ( http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000903070963/ ).  Because Nintendo is sticking with 480p max, there games will fit on 1 DVD like current gen Xbox games.  I I've already expressed discontent with Nintendo on this for Revolution.

Also if you believe that the PS3 can do a dual screen 1080p 120fps display. While I don't doubt the capability, I doubt the application.

Monitors, HDTV, VGA capabilities... moving forwards, basicly.  While I commit to buying game systems based on game quality, I'm really looking forward to plugging a PS3 into my PC monitor and running my PS2 games on that display, like I can with my Dreamcast.  I don't need dual displays, but it beats having to buy two consoles or playing multiplayer games in teeny windows.

Of course, you're so happy with your Gamecube and S-Video, you'd have no issue using it for a computer desktop, too.  I use S-Video for my PS2, and while it looks bright and pixelicious, I'd hate to use a desktop that way.  My current A1200 setup looks better than my brand new Panasonic TV with S-Video.  Now that I've used WinUAE on my PC monitor, I definately don't want to go back to using an Amiga on a TV.  The Amiga was designed to work on crappy TVs, but video technology has improved a lot since the 80's, even in the low-end.

I guess you forgot that I play my GC on my 50" DLP HDTV using component cables from my GC's digital video output.  It can be modified to display VGA or a separate cable can be purchased.  This can be done on the GC because the DAC in built into the cable, not the system.

It's the extra one I bought to put the modchip in that doesn't support the DV out.  If I wanted to, now that I know how simple it is to mod, I can always simply remove my mod chip from that GC and sell it and put the mod chip into my Rev A GC.

I don't think it will have the power to play games like that but maybe a static screen...but if it's static, why would you need 120fps. More marketing b.s...

Ah, so you do doubt the capability.

No, it's not.  It's scalable in refresh rate so it can work with a huge array of display devices, including LCDs that default to 75Hz.  Displays aren't going to run at 60Hz forever.

Besides, PC displays have no problem running dual screens.  The PS3 is based on a modified nVidia PC GPU.  Tool compatibility is questionable, but performance isn't going to be that far off.

How choppy the video will be with dual screen support and a wide variety of resolutions depends largely on the complexity of the games.  Some games on my PS2 chop like crazy, and some work at 60FPS no matter how much action gets on screen.  That's the difference between good developers and engines, and bad ones.  Blaming the hardware for framerate problems, as you do with XBox 360, is plain stupid.

I'm not arguing the technology.  Re-read the post. :rtfm:
I'm arguing the application of it.  I'm saying it's marketing spin by Sony.  You want a PS3, buy it.  You don't want a Revolution, don't buy it.  I don't care.  The day I see a dual screen, 1080p, 120 fps game on the PS3, I will declare Sony the be-all, end-all of the video games industry and pray for an earthquake to swallow Nintendo whole.

Nintendo has conceeded that Revolution will be less powerful than XBox 360.  Does that mean Revolution games will run at 5FPS?  Please...

5FPS...Oh that's a good one.  I really think you have nothing better to do than write rubbish in this thread.

[Louis Dias]

_ThEcRoW wrote:
@lou_dias

Ack boards will not need an a1200 to work, the will work withouth any classic hardware fitted into it. And the size of the board will fit perfectly in an a1200 case, so i don't see the point of a need for a tower case for it.

That's a bit of a contradiction.
How can you have a A1200 case and not have had a A1200.

From what I read, to not rely on a A1200 at all, you need a psu and a mystery device to give you a keyboard and mouse interface.
EDIT: Not to mention an RJ-45 ethernet jack
 And since that means you don't have an A1200, you need a tower...and a keyboard...and a mouse...and a monitor...and a miniPCI graphics card...and hopefully OS4 comes bundled with these drivers.

Oh and somehow this mini-PCI graphics card is supposed to have a VGA port the you can mount to the tower.

I think you'd be better off with an A1 and making a clean break from reliance on legacy hardware.  By the time you find all you need to run an ACK standalone it will be near the cost of an A1 and an A1 comes with a faster processor.

The ACK reminds me of Eyetech's original A1200-addon A1 design only this one is even less expandable and even more propriety (miniPCI).

[Louis Dias]

adolescent wrote:

lou_dias wrote:

No they didn't.  The Gameboy Color was b/c with Gameboy as has been every Gameboy product since.

Not true anymore.  The micro only supports GBA games.  :-(  (And, if you re-read what Wacoon said, you'll see he said the portables were backward compatible)

Must you add this dribble.
The DS also doesn't play plain GB games but it's not a GB series product on the "Micro" is a limited release product, not the next "Gameboy".

He was still wrong on Sony with backwards compatibility pioneering and I'm still waiting for him to show me a cell phone with 256MB of ram.

[Louis Dias]

@I wouldn't even call him an adolescent

atleast spell my last name right, will ya
oh and this thread would stay on-topic if it wasn't cluttered with yours and Waccoon's sub-bridge-dwelling remarks.

@Tripitaka

I don't know, the wording on there website leads once too believe that you "could" run it stand-alone "if" an input adpater interface is developed.  I haven't been following the actual thread, I'm just basing this on the site information.

If you ask me, classic hardware addons should not rear their heads in this day and age.  I think the guy who wants to emulate the hardware on an fpga with a pci adapter interface has the right idea - and only if you care about backwards compatibility.  I know I don't.

[Louis Dias]

Waccoon wrote:

That's why you are what I've always said you are. You made the claim, YOU need to back it up.

I made no claim about in-order or out-of-order execution.  I don't see you posting any proof to back up your claim.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=8
oops maybe I got the 2 mixed up

68k emulation is no big deal. There are open source 68k emulators and there is currently a homebrew GC developer writing one.

So, emulators are available.  What I said is that you still need memory to run them.

you need memory for anything but you don't need more memory until you actually run out

They make it sound like a PSP is as powerful as a PS2

In what way?  I certainly didn't bring this up, nor do I follow PSP advertisements.

their claim was the same or more power than a ps2 in a handheld

The exact number is irrelevant. The fact that it's not 100% is the point.

How Sony holds up to the competition is the point.

no, the point is Sony's claims compared to reality

It's kind of funny to hear an Amiga fan complaining about compatibility, isn't it?

no, I'm complaining about their marketing claims.  Get it staraight.  Taking me out of context again, what a suprise...

Actually the 2 Zelda N64 games released on the GC as a ore-order bonus for pre-ordering Zelda:The Wind Waker were emualtor based.

Emulator-based is not always backwards-compatible, because you're actually getting re-licensed games on a native medium.

You said it wasn't possible to play N64 games on the GC...but it is.  Don't dance around it.  The GC is powerful enough to do so an enhance it a bit as was done.  Obviously the medium required either another hardware like the GBA player or just bundle an emulator with your roms.  Nintendo owns all the properties and did as they saw fit.

Also, on there website at one time was a poll of actually getting a N64 compatible player on the GC.  Infact Nintendo does alot of polls of it's customers.  That's how it keeps them satisfied.

Lots of companies re-release their old games.  I didn't have to repurchase my PSX titles or sign up to some subscription service when I got a PS2.

they enhanced the textures and added the "Master Quest" which was previously unreleased.  It also was pretty inexpensive.

the Atari 5200 had a plug-in module for 2600 backwards compatibility.

I suppose this is equivalent to the Game Boy Player for the GameCube, as the hardware implementation is the same.  I had an Atari plug-in module for my Coleco Vision.  Does that count as backwards compatibility, or just emulation?

who cares, no one had to buy the extra hardware if you owned the original

why are you beating a dead horse?
oh, I forgot, that's the rental fee you pay for living under the bridge.

3" discs rare? Yeah, Ok. 3" CDs and DVDs have been around a long time. Look at the center 3" of you PC's DVD player, they all support them. Ritek it the preferred brand for GC pirates.

I think you overlooked something important in my post.  :-)

that's ok, with every post in this thread you overlook the actual topic

Elder Scrolls is supposedly on 4 DVDs right now

That's because the developers suck.  If I can get a 625x500 JPEG photo down to 80K without any visible artifacts, any game developer should be able to make a game that will fit on one count of whatever medium a console uses.

All this horsepower is cool, but it makes developers lazy.  I wish developers would look into things like fractal-generated textures.  It would help to make the games look more unique every time you play them, too.

I presume cut-scenes are largely to blame.  Game developers should stop making "interactive movies" and keep making games.

not my problem

As for the catride issue...so what, it happened, it's been over with for 7 years.

Well, the cartridges are partly to blame for the company losing their massive market share.  They haven't gotten that market back, so it's arguable as to whether the issue is "over."

not my problem, however - my benefit is that the GC is cheap

Because Nintendo is sticking with 480p max, there games will fit on 1 DVD like current gen Xbox games.

The total size of a game is determined by its screen resolution?  Low resolution is a virtue?

Yes, I see your point.  But, I thought the whole reason for using 3D graphics and vectors and nurbs and all this new-age crap was to make everything resolution independent.  Only cut-scenes and other movie clips really justify your argument about low resolution.

Come on now.  We know just because you tell a gpu to draw a circle, it will look circular or octogonal depending on things other than the resolution of the screen.  Let's not get into that.

My bad.  I have a Rev C GameCube, so I can't get a cable to do that.  I'm not into used hardware, though, so I guess I'll stick with S-Video.

I do find it annoying that newer versions of hardware, from any manufacturer, might lack features compared to the original design.  Also, the VGA cable is pricey.

hey it's Nintendo's fault for not making it available at retail - only through there online store

eventually since not that many consumers invested in it, the feature was removes as a cost-cutting measure.

You can still send them you GC and pay a fee to get a Rev B with the digital video out if you want it.  I love it.

I'm arguing the application of it. I'm saying it's marketing spin by Sony. You want a PS3, buy it. You don't want a Revolution, don't buy it. I don't care.

Is this a rebuttal or not?

chalk it up as a "don't care"

Don't expect Revolution lauch titles to be as good as the ones developed years later.  Nintendo programmers are not immune to the problems faced by XBox 360 and PS3 programmers.  Hell, it's pretty much the same hardware, really.  It's the dev tools that count.

Well actually some of the best GCN games came out in the first 2 years.  Also since the devkits are the same but with added api's, I do expect Revolution games to be excellent from the start.  If I am disappointed - oh well.

Lou (@ me):  I'm still waiting for him to show me a cell phone with 256MB of ram.

I didn't make that claim.  Ask adolscent.[/quote]

eh - sorry, it's easy to get you 2 confused - if you know what I mean  :-P

[Louis Dias]

wow, that's like the pot calling the kettle "black".

You didn't have to quote it just to say that. :afro:

[Louis Dias]

Yes, we need a market where new software AND hardware is being purchase.  Developers aren't making money when you want to run a 20-year old app.

I mean, you can add all the accelerators you want to the old hardware...but wouldn't some nice new software that takes full advantage of the new hardware be better?

Look at the console industry.
Hardware is upgraded about every 5 years.
Many software titles are released...with upgraded versions over time (as in like Madden '05 -> Madden '06)

New software is what drives the business.  One major harware purchase, many software purchases.  Infact, the hardware upgrade is driven by the demands of the software.

People still run classic hardware because - and only because - they want to run classic software.

BTW, an operating system is software...lest anyone forget.

[Louis Dias]

so you didn't see the last OS4 video with dragable screens?

hardware today is more than powerful enough to run circles around anything classic hardware could do

just give me the OS on the hardware of my choice and let the apps fly

[Louis Dias]

has anyone seen the developer leaked stats on
http://revolution.ign.com ?

Revolution is a direct upgrade for the GC with supposedly 100% backwards HARDWARE compatibility.

It will have about 96MB of main T1-RAM and double the clockspeed of the GC.  I wonder if it is getting an 800MHz Gekko or and 800Mhz G5...  Also the Flipper is updated to double the clock rate (400Mhz and is to incorporate Radeon technology)....

If there connect the external devices that same way (EXI bus) but with a faster bus...  It seems that all GC "hacks" may be compatible with Revolution.  Worst cast is that the video frame buffer driver might have to be rewritten.

Thanks to USB 2.0 ports and direct SD card compatibility and built-in wi-fi, I may be running Linux on the Revolution before anyone runs it on the 360.

Lest we not forget the possible $99-150 price point.
Now that's what I call a
"potential PPC Amiga REAL CHEAP"
 :-D

Let me remind people that VERY EARLY on in this thread, I stated that any development work done getting AOS4 onto the GC could carry over to Revolution. :rtfm:

I hate to say - "I told you so!"

No I lied.
:smack:
I am happy to say "I told you so!"  :lol:
:laughing:
 :-P

:flame: