Waccoon wrote:
Lou: So, it can be used like RAM: or RAD:
It's still useable.
For config information, I suppose. But, to be usable, you still have to jump through hoops to get it to the CPU, somehow.
If there's a function that you call that does it easily, who cares what the underlying code is. Someday I will post the headers to the OpenGC Library...
Lou: You guys are trying to acheive a monumental step forward.
That's kind of the point to making a "new" system.
You did originally compare GameCube to the AmigaOne, not to old PPC-accelerated Amiga hardware, like an expanded A4000.
There you go taking me out of context
again.
I said the GC gives you most of what people want in a new machine at 1/4 the price when compared to an A1. I never said it was perfect, just cheap.
Lou: Amiga OS is a fast single-user OS. I don't need all the features of os 'xxx'.
Take a look at the kernel of a modern OS. Multi-user support is piddling. Even embedded OSes like QNX support it. The lack of core features usually relates to a lack of foresight and development time, rather than trying to skim on system resources.
Note that security largely depends on groups. Obscurity is hardly a justification for the lack of security, as filesystem security is important for more things than keeping out viruses, you know.
Of course, that's reaching a bit, given that most "real" OSes lock software out of the system, but give full access to what counts: "Home". Even UNIX security seems really flimsy to me.
No one here is planning on sharing the GC with the family as the main PC. And if OS4 gets such a huge following that it attracts the attention of some malevolent hacker...I think we will have progressed from GC hardware by then...
We need to use a sub-$100 console which, when new, originally sold for, what, $250 wihtout any software?
$199 without any software new in Nov 18, 2001.
Lou: Here's OS 4 with 2 docks open only using up 8MB out of a 256MB system:
It's hard to gague memory usage from screenshots wihout a real memory tracker application open.
I wonder how much memory they are using for disk caches and the like. Maybe caches don't show up at all as "used" memory, since technically caches are "free" memory that's released to applications when they need it.
Disk caches? OS4 and every Amiga OS before that is fast and repsonsive because it doesn't rely on disk caching or virtual memory. It uses whatever RAM it has and even you should know that which is why you keep using reasoning outside of the scope of what this topic is to knock it down, sound intelligent, and diminish less informed people from gaining enthusiasm for this.
Lou: Amiga-On-Nintendo won't replace my PC but when I can show it around and then say that new more powerful dedicated hardware that can run this OS is around the corner, then some people may go "hmmm...", providing the price is right and the apps are there, ofcourse.
Ah, reality is starting to sink in, now.
If this thread ever dies...what ever would you do with yourself? Oh yeah, complain about your slow Mac Mini.
Except for the fact that developing for GameCube without Nintendo's help is next to impossible. Unlike the GCLinux team, Amiga and Hyperion are commercial companies. I don't think Nintendo would like it if OS4 was released... and there's still issues with compatibility.
Tell that to the developers at gcdev.com or gc-linux.org
There is a free library that exposes every bit of hardware that the GC has built-in. You can download a Windows, Mac and Linux Gamecube development kit here:
http://www.gcdev.com/downloads.shtmlIt's legal because it doesn't use any Nintendo dev kit libraries. There is no law against modding a console and running you own code. You don't sign a licensing agreement when you purchase a console. More misinformation on your part...what else is new...
And, yes, GCLinux is still struggling to get even basic features implemented. If Amiga counts on people running OS4 on used/bargain bin hardware, instead of new systems, they'll end up having to reverse-engineer everything just like the GCLinux team.
? The are running the 2.6.14 kernal. The whole point of Linux is that you patch or recompile a build with the features you actually want... Keep trolling...
[/quote]You did mention in another thread that you're not into making Nintendo a profit. I don't think they'll like that idea very much. :-)[/quote]
Actually it was this thread.
So, they don't care if I get hit by a car. What's your point?
Lou: But without affordable hardware to run the OS on, how will there ever be a demand of the OS?
Ask the hundreds of millions of people who own PCs.
Ask the millions of people who spent $300+ on a glossy-looking, over-hyped MP3 player.
Ask the millions who will spend $50-$100 for a new cell phone because the one that came with their calling plan is too cheap.
Ask the "1000+ a day" that are buying "cheap" Mac minis for $500 or more.
Ask the people that are actually buying those Godawful plasma TVs for $1,000+ when they look like crap from a standard analog signal.
Seems like you think all people have money except Amigans. Oh, and even hobbyists need more options than a game machine that must be soldered together or have special custom hardware built for a proprietery serial port (regardless of performance).
Yes, take me out of context yet again.
If Amigans have so much money, why are they still using Amigas? Why aren't they on PC's or Macs 100% of the time.
You forget. Amiga is a hobby now. Hobbies shouldn't be expensive. Even you are "Mr. Mac Mini" incarnate. If you have so much money, buy an A1 or Troika and ignore people who want to see OS 4 on CHEAP hardware.
Between some remodelling and my 50" DLP HDTV, I've spent $7000 in the last couple of months. My TV was $1750 shipped. It has infinitely more value and a $1000 A1 just to run OS4. If OS4 was in enough people's hands and have a viable market where "new" software was being released, then maybe A1 or similar hardware might be worth the investment. There is not and that's why a small investment in a system like a modded Gamecube to try it out makes alot more sense.
the whole point of making a new Amiga is that we don't have to do this frankenstein crap, anymore. It's unfortunate that Amiga has chosen the Teron as the base system, but you need to evaluate more options. There are plenty of cool-running, portable, affordable PCs. If you can't think of any, ask Google.
Better yet, stop wasting time pining over GameCube, and ask Amiga/Hyperion why they can't actually deliver CPU-independent code running on a real, modern embedded OS.
Obviously, they don't care. That's all that really matters in the end, and five years from now, when every handheld computer has 128+ MB of memory, the idea of running OS4 on proprietary game machines run by companies that don't give a damn about real operating systems and won't help OS developers with real hardware documentation, will still look absurd.
I keep stating my goals and what I'm looking for. Yours are something totally different. If you don't care to mod a GC - go away. You aren't serving any purpose here. If OS4 isn't capable of running on cheap hardware, OS4 will be a small footnote in Amiga's history.
Why won't Hyperion port OS4 to GC? Same reason why won't they port it to your Mac Mini. The difference is, they can pursue a license from Nintendo. Nintendo doesn't have a reason to deny it because they stand to profit from every copy sold. Apple would never issue a license to Hyperion for a Mac to run a product to compete against it's own. So I'll stop wishing for OS4 on GC well after you stop wishing for it on the Mac.
Lou: Oh and outside of running OS4, a Gamecube is much more useful than an A1, afterall a Gamecube is still a Gamecube. Modded, it's still a fully functional Gamecube.
Interesting. Many people made a point that if Amiga went x86 and was dual-bootable with Windows, nobody would use it.
Oh, I didn't know the GC could act as a PC. Get real. If people are using Amigas just for games, they certainly don't need OS4 or an A1.
The cost of the SD card is a bit of a wash as some people may already have them in a camera...or eventually will. So it also has some value outside of this project.
You know, I have an old, spare PC. Lots of people do. We could have an Amiga for nothing more than a software fee! Wow! Granted, some things may have to run in safe mode or flat mode due to a lack of specific chipset support, but since we're considering GameCube, obviously overall performance and functionality isn't an issue.
Lou, you don't have to lower the costs even more by touting re-usability of parts. There is a prime selling point for all devices, and people have a gray area of negotiation. There are many new cars for $10,000, but nobody buys them. GameCube is simply below the cheap threshold. People want more.
It comes down to perceives value and individual needs. If nobody bought $10,000 cars then no one would make them either. It comes down to supply and demand. There wasn't much demand for the A1 @ ~$900 to run OS4. So ask yourself at what price point would people want to give OS4 a try. Once that magic number is hit, then you will see sales.
Lou: How many copies of OS 4 could they sell now?
MskoDestny:Not enough to make the porting effort worthwhile.
If the port is difficult (lack of documentation, dev tools, and Nintendo's support), then it is more expensive, too. A lot of wasted effort when the next big thing comes along. Revolution may be similar to GameCube, but it is not the same, and at some point, people will want laptops and more traditional computers.
Given how long it's taking OS4 just to be released, I'm sure everyone can agree that porting OSes, especially to platforms that are not compatible with PC standards, is not an easy or cheap task. Also, GameCube is almost end-of-lifed, just like the AmigaOne.
Hyerion can port UBOOT to the GC in a day. The HAL in a week. They can freely use the OpenGC library to do it. The GC-Linux team got a basic Linux port done in a week "with no documentation". You want documentation:
http://www.gcdev.com/downloads.shtml download YAGD.
