Excitement about NatAmi

[kedawa]

I guess I can understand how having so much time and so little news can turn anticipation into frustration, but there's no reason to be negative about any of this.

I'm pretty optimistic about Amiga clone hardware in general, I guess.  I really like the idea of having the ultimate classic Amiga, and I'm confident that someone will make that a reality within a few years.

I currently have no interest in any of the PPC stuff at all, since I have never used any of it and I don't think any of the Amiga software I run can make use of PPC acceleration anyway.  I'm not going to tell anybody that it's useless, though.

[kedawa]

It's a hobby project. I do not believe it will ever be commercially available. Supposing it is it will be pretty lame and not worth the money.
The window for a super AGA Amiga is passing while AROS is going full steam.

That window will always be open at my house.  Besides, the two projects are not competing with one another.  Advancement of AROS, especially 68k AROS, only helps the Natami.

[kedawa]

Why would anyone want essential features like USB and ethernet relegated to a PCI card?
Not only would it create a nightmare scenario for compatibility, but it would severely limit the options for different form factors.

[kedawa]

This will bring the MiniMig up to parity with any hardware that Commodore released.

Sure, except for compatibility, which has always been a bit spotty since it is not a cycle exact replica of the original CPU and custom logic.

In what way would it create any issues for compatibility?  You pick the card you want to support, and you just don't support anything else.  I don't understand why the fact that you COULD support different cards would in any way make you feel like you MUST.

Why would you want to depend on a third party card that could disappear from the market at any time and leave you in the lurch?  There's almost no market for PCI USB cards to begin with, so what makes you think they'll even be produced in the future?

While it might limit options for different form factors, the reality is that there just are not that many different options.  The most obvious is the standard PC itx case.  Anything else would pretty much require a second run of modified boards anyway, and at that point, you could always build the PCI interface and network/USB directly on the board.  So, again, where is the problem with the initial run having the parts on PCI?

Use your imagination!  There are endless options for a single board solution.  Why not get it right the first time and produce an elegant design that can be refined in the future rather than reinvented?
I'd much rather have the team put their efforts into improving the FPGA core for all to enjoy rather than redesigning the board to integrate features that should have been there to start with.

[kedawa]

This is not specifically a Natami question, but something I've wondered about FPGA clones in general.
How practical would it be to use any leftover space on the FPGA to create a secondary core that mimics a simpler computer, like say a VIC-20, that could run in tandem with the main Amiga core?

[kedawa]

What doesn't make sense?  Running two cores on one FPGA?
I'm just thinking of something that would allow for hardware emulation of something else without using any of the Amiga core's resources.

If the Amiga's design can accomodate it, would it be possible to add another copy of say the Paula chip, stripped down to just the audio portion, in order to have more audio channels?

[kedawa]

That makes sense.  I know these questions are probably naive and silly, but I really don't have much knowledge of FPGAs or the Amiga's core logic for that matter.
Programming PICs is about the extent of my experience with programmable logic.

[kedawa]

basically the 360 has 3 of the cpu's that sony paid ibm to develop

I didn't realize people were still spreading this myth.  Aside from sharing some banal power saving tricks, the Xenon is no more similar to the Cell than any other modern PPC chip.

[kedawa]

I'd say in some ways the Cell is more "multi-core" than other CPUs. Those SPEs run autonomously to each other. The only real interaction between them is explicit DMA between memory.

As I see it, that makes it less "multi-core" and more "multi-processor".

[kedawa]

Could you stop posting your opinion and consider providing facts?
Xenon is very much an enhanced tri-core Cell PPE derivative.

And since both the Cell and the Xenon are in order processors, their actual performance per cycle is a little lower than many other PPC cores.

Multi-core or multiprocessor? Well, as I see it, if its on the same die its a single processor. Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Math co-processors used to be off die, and even then they were only considered co-processors. That may all the SPE should be considered.

Could you not be so snarky?
I was replying to Bif's comment that the 'autonomy' of the SPEs make it more "multi-core".

[kedawa]

How can it be a myth when it comes from the guy working for IBM?
 
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3904/processing_the_truth_an_interview_.php
 
The powerpc chip in the xenon and the cell is basically the same & it was designed for sony. Apart from the instruction set, it has nothing in common with older designs & yet they both have a lot of things in common.
 
I didn't realise that anyone didn't know this.

I've read the article and it's not exactly conclusive.  Most of what he says is out of context and refers to Sony's perception of the situation as if it were fact.

[kedawa]

Thanks for the clarification.

[kedawa]

What's a good example of a modern PPC, though?
There are no current desktop PPC chips, and the game consoles are getting pretty long in the tooth.

[kedawa]

And knowing Nintendo, it'll be software hackable within weeks of release.