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Author Topic: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"  (Read 14716 times)

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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« on: November 13, 2014, 10:39:50 PM »
My preference among Amiga and Amiga inspired platforms is clearly MorphOS3.7 on both my 1.67GHz G4 PowerBook, and my 2.7GHz Dual G5 PowerMac for both raw power, beauty of design, similarity to and compatibility with the much loved AmigaOS of the past, ease of use, availability of software and rate of progress from the MorphOS Team members in adding new features, or increasing the number of hardware choices supported.  Having put that into perspective, I feel embarrassed for any AmigaOS, MorphOS, or AROS user who would complain about paying for software updates by any of the remaining programmers who are still working on any part of our community.  Specially when the update price is only 30 Euros!

I appreciate the fact that MorphOS Team members have given us so much of their time and not asked for a single extra penny of payment for all of the updates they have provided since MorphOS2.0, but truthfully, I would have gladly paid 30 Euros for each and every one of those update releases, including the ones that are only bug fixes, because these programmers deserve to be paid for their time and efforts.

I will be buying AmigaOS4.1FE in the very near future, even though I do not use my AmigaOS4.x system nearly as often as I would like, due to real life issues at this point in time.  Let me repeat how embarrassed I am for anyone who complains about the cost of any software, or OS updates for our community.  But then some people just aren't happy (if they can ever be truly happy) unless they are complaining or being negative about something.  It is just a sad fact that our small community has such members, and that those members seem to be some of the most vocal on forums such as this one.  I can understand any user making a choice to NOT buy any particular software application or OS update, but why try to prevent any other users from being able to make their own choices, by discouraging the remaining programmers with your complaints?  Okay, you are unhappy that they are asking to be paid for their work, I don't agree with your opinion, but I understand it.  Just don't buy AmigaOS4.1FE, as it is clear that you don't prefer to use AmigaOS4.x anyway, and have not supported or promoted AmigaOS4.x for years now, only posting negative comments about it and it's programmers on forums and pointing out your opinions of why MorphOS is so superior.  I think it is a surprise to everyone, including myself, that you would complain about something that you clearly don't have any interest is supporting or using any longer.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 11:14:12 PM by amigadave »
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 12:00:56 AM »
Please don't try to put users of either platform into any group of personalities.  We have both good and bad in both camps.  Celebrate the good and ignore the bad is the best advice I can give.
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2014, 03:44:56 AM »
Quote from: Minuous;777300
tmhg has made some valid points. OS4 versioning and pricing seems quite random and gives no confidence about the future. If I had bought OS4.1 I would expect free upgrades to OS4.1 until OS4.2 is released. Just like Windows service packs or AmigaOS boing bags are free and always have been.

By preannouncing FE weeks/months ahead Hyperion have shot themselves in the foot somewhat, as no one is likely going to buy the existing version of OS4 now for hundreds of dollars and not get any updates.

I agree that the situation is not ideal, but I don't think that anyone involved thought that AmigaOS4.2 would take this long to complete.  My disappointment with the whole situation is how Hyperion handled previous promises and announcements regarding what would be included within AmigaOS4.2, which tied their hands.  In my mind, maybe it would have been better to just release everything that is completed and tested now as AmigaOS4.2 and apologize for the missing promised features that have taken longer to implement than anticipated, but we all know how critical some members of our community are and there is not any single path that Hyperion could have taken that would have satisfied everyone.

I see no problem is asking for an interim paid update prior to all of the promises made for 4.2 being completed, as I don't mind paying programmers for their time and effort.  I don't care what version numbers they use, but as I just wrote, some people would have criticized Hyperion no matter what they did.  Users who wish to continue supporting Hyperion's efforts to move forward will buy this latest update, and those who disagree with their actions for what ever reasons, will not.

It certainly is not easy being a Next Gen Amiga user, it never has been easy, but look at the progress that is being made in several areas of our community and I hope you can find something to be happy about and enthusiastic with your support of that part of our community.  Knowing a little about your past software development, I would hope that the recent announcements regarding incredible speed increases for FPGA 68k soft cores, would excite you and possibly give you more incentive to do more new programming for the 68k Amiga platforms and clones (but let's not go off topic about that here).  Just saying that I think there are better things to do with our time and energy than to complain about a 30 Euro update.

Personally, if I had any criticism of any of our remaining programmers, payment for their time and effort would not be one of them.  We have so few knowledgeable programmers left in our community, let us not drive any of them away by complaining about something as trivial as a 30 Euro request for an update.

Your points are valid, but I don't see them as very important in the larger scope of what is going on in our community.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 03:50:18 AM by amigadave »
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2014, 09:03:59 PM »
Quote from: Minuous;777315
I wasn't complaining, it's not even something that affects me as I'm not an existing OS4.1 user. I just find Hyperion's business logic a little strange (because they are exposing themself to the Osborne effect - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect) and I'm relieved that I never bought a copy of OS4.1 in the past or during the next month, because I would probably be feeling let down by this. Surely we're all allowed to have an opinion about things and sympathy for fellow users.

My expression, quoted above, of thinking that anyone who complains about paying for a 30 Euro update is a waste of time and energy which could be better used elsewhere should not be misconstrued as a statement that people are not free to express their opinions about any topic.  I just meant that IMO this topic does not deserve any of my time, but has obviously taken up a great deal of my time in reading and responding to this thread.

All members are free to express their opinions on any (hopefully Amiga related) topics here, as long as they follow the posting guidelines in how they express themselves.
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2014, 10:58:26 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;777412
Even one of the site's moderators is participating, instead of cleaning things up.

Not true, I have asked members to self edit their posts when they have violated a Posting Guideline rule, or did you conveniently overlook that post by amigasociety?

If you have any complaints about any of the posts in this thread, please use the "Report Post" button to bring it to our attention.

As a rule, moderators try to refrain from moderating in a thread that they are actively participating in, so forgive me if I ask one of the other moderators to handle any reported posts in which the members refuse to self edit out any violations they have posted.

Members who post opposing opinions to yours are not automatically considered a personal attack.  If your claims were true about the corporate mentality of this site, your original post would have been deleted shortly after it was first posted.

Edit:  I find it laughable that you are implying that more moderation is needed on this site.  I guess it only applies to what gets moderated not being aligned with your point of view to satisfy your perception of what should be moderated and what should not.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 11:04:06 PM by amigadave »
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 11:28:57 PM »
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;777440
I don't "report" posts, never had, never will. This is a fundamental on-line principle I have.

Well, that is too bad, because besides writing a PM to one of the moderators (which I assume you also would never do, because of your "on-line principle") it is the only method available to bring posts which contain any posting violations to the attention of the moderators and explain why you think such post is a violation.

Other members are free to express their opinions of your actions, as long as they don't cross the line into personal attacks.  IMO, I have already asked members to remove all personal attacks from their forum posts, but I may have missed one or two.  If you want to point them out to me, I will gladly work toward correcting any violations.
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2014, 07:14:21 PM »
Quote from: Karlos;777521
This.

Furthermore, there'd be nothing wrong with such a reaction. The MorphOS devs have worked hard and deserve some remuneration for their efforts. It's to their credit that they've managed to churn out so many free updates for registered users. I strongly doubt any of their userbase would complain at a paid for update, especially at a significantly reduced rate.


I agree!  I would gladly pay for updates to MorphOS, but as kronos just mentioned, there might be a few who disagree with it on principle of setting a precedent.  Perhaps if they did it only after announcing the intention to charge a "one time" update fee, or instead, a once every x number of years update fee, then perhaps even the users who object to a precedent being set would happily pay for certain updates.

MorphOS Dev. Team, to my knowledge has never promised that ALL future updates would be free, but that impression has been growing and reinforced by the number of free updates to this point in time.

The big difference between Hyperion and the MorphOS Dev. Team, is that one is run as a commercial company (loosely fits that description), and the other is more like a collaboration of like minded individuals with a silent administrator (or group of administrators), most of whom work for free on the MorphOS project.

I don't think that either entity makes enough income from their license sales to pay for anything more than some beer and pizza for the programmers occasionally.  :)
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2014, 06:50:33 AM »
Quote from: itix;777554
Then what? Do you really think potential user base is drying up in near future? There are so many Amiga users who dont have MorphOS, even on this forum.

I agree with Karlos that the MorphOS Dev. Team may need to charge something for future updates, if/when the sales of MorphOS licenses drops too low to sustain the operating costs to keep the MorphOS website running and pay what ever other expenses they may have, BUT, looking at the ever increasing angle on the graph of MorphOS license sales, it does not look like that will be a problem any time in the near future.

I am surprised that the number of MorphOS license sales continues to increase every month.  It can't be just from existing MorphOS users buying 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th licenses for different models of supported hardware, so we must be gaining more new MorphOS users each month (in spite of the fact that there is almost zero promotion and advertizing coming from the MorphOS Dev. Team itself).

So, although I expect the number of new MorphOS license sales to eventually slow, due to saturation, as Karlos pointed out, it does not appear to be a problem for the foreseeable future.

I have no idea how many new AmigaOS4.x sales were occurring prior to the decision to sell AmigaOS4.1.7FE for 30 Euros, or if the recent advancements in UAE which provide the possibility to run AmigaOS4.x for Classic via emulation had anything to do with the decision to sell this update, but my best guess is that what ever that number was, it was insufficient to provide the needed (or desired) income to pay for a push to finish the features needed to complete AmigaOS4.2.  This is all just guess work on my part though, and I have no information to confirm or refute any of my guesses (could be all just hot air).

I want progress to continue on AmigaOS4.x, so I don't mind paying for this update, even though I own an X1000, and had assumed that I would not need to pay for any updates prior to my free copy of AmigaOS4.2 being delivered (or downloaded).  Some users (obviously) feel differently, and although I don't agree with their view point, I support their right to express their opinions and view points, as long as they do so in a civil manner, don't troll the forums to create negative responses, or otherwise break any of our Posting Guideline "Cardinal Rules".  I take offense to some of the statements made, such as the assertion that X1000 owners will never receive their free copy of AmigaOS4.2, but instead of being angry, I find it laughable that anyone would presume to know what will happen in that regard in the future.

It is a shame that this thread has become as hostile as it has between a few members.  I have tried to correct some of the instances of hostility, but as a general rule, it is not wise to moderate in the same thread that a moderator is posting his personal opinions into (I learned that one the hard way on a couple of occasions).

As I have already posted previously in this thread, if any members feel that any forum post contains a violation of the Posting Guideline "Cardinal Rules", please use the "Report Post" button, instead of perpetuating more hostility via angry responses in the forum messages.  One of the other moderators will look into correcting any violations that exist.  This does not have to be an angry discussion and there is room for both sides to express their thoughts and opinions, without breaking any of the site posting rules.  :)
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Offline amigadave

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Re: Regarding pricing policy of "OS4.1.7"
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2014, 03:02:04 AM »
Quote from: itix;777602
@amigadave

So... Is the AmigaOS 4 market saturated now and Hyperion moved to charge from updates?

Like Karlos wrote:



Karlos being an OS4 developer is giving strong hint...


I have no idea what the market sales are like for AmigaOS4.x or MorphOS3.7.

If someone had not noticed the numbering system on the invoices sent out for MorphOS, we probably would not have any idea about how many MorphOS licenses had been sold (not users, just individual computer keys for MorphOS).

If Hyperion wanted to make the most money from selling AmigaOS4.x, they could have just left the price where it was, so any new users who wanted to try out AmigaOS4.x for Classic hardware via UAE emulation would have had to pay the higher price.

Perhaps (just a guess), this paid stand alone version of AmigaOS4.1FE was created to cater to users wanting to try AmigaOS4.x via UAE emulation, and the low price of only 30 Euros was set to encourage higher sales to these new users trying it out via UAE.

None of that matters to me.  The developers of AmigaOS4.x are trying to do things that weren't even being discussed on other NG Amiga platforms until recently, AFAIR.  Adding some of the features that they want to add is a hugely difficult and complicated project (so much so that many other people have said it can't be done, so they won't even try).  Since I decided to invest in an AmigaOS4.x compatible system, I am willing to help fund further progress on the development of AmigaOS4.x.  Simple as that.

All the rest is just noise to me, and there appear to be many AmigaOS4.x users who feel the same.  What is unfortunate, is that too many AmigaOS4.x users take the bait when users who do not support AmigaOS4.x developers write negative comments about any part of the AmigaOS4.x world.  I understand their frustration when they read repeated attacks on their choices, or when they see inaccurate information distributed, which usually ends up in long drawn out endless unproductive debates (like this one).

The relevant facts of this particular argument are very few and have already been expressed dozens of times in this thread alone, but yet the endless debate continues with opposing opinions continuing to prove some kind of point or other and generally discredit anyone who opposes their opinions.  It is all so childish and yet I know most members here are over 30, if not over 50 years of age, like me.

I know that more moderating needs to be done in this thread, as some nasty stuff keeps creeping into comments, but I am too exhausted to even think about it right now. Maybe tomorrow I will try to sort some of it out and ask other moderators to act on the worst of it.

Why are so many of you still posting jabs at each other in this thread?

What difference does it make if one group needs money to pay full time developers, while another group gets the same, more, or less work accomplished with an all volunteer work force?  

It doesn't make one right and the other wrong, it really doesn't!

Edit:  I used to wonder why anyone would want to use any NG Amiga system other than MorphOS, but now I understand that they are three completely different things that happen to share a common history, or origination point that is the Commodore Amiga.  As more time goes by, all NG Amiga systems grow further apart, even when they copy small parts or features from one another (such as the few cooperating parts between AROS and MorphOS).  I enjoy ALL the different choices that are related to my original interest and love of my first Amiga A1000.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 03:12:42 AM by amigadave »
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