A project I'd like to see from Jens...

[amigadave]

Hi freqmax, et al.


You could theoretically already make "replacement" 6581's.

VHDL code for 6581 equivalent is available here:
http://code.google.com/p/netsid-papilio/source/browse/trunk/doc/original_sid_src/sid_6581.vhd?r=2

Use a GODIL module:
http://www.trenz-electronic.de/products/fpga-boards/oho-elektronik.html
(250 model should easily suffice).

They're a great little product for replacing obsolete/impossible to find DIP parts.
I've used them a couple of times for repairing late 70's pinball machine boards.

Not a trivial solution, I grant you, but do-able.

Cheers,
Red

Repairing or restoring old Pinball machines, now that sounds like a fun hobby that could make a person some good spare cash.

[amigadave]

A good 68K can outperform them, hands down - on a clock per clock comparison.


But what do you really want?

If you have an A500 or A600 or A1200 then you ideally look
* for a good CPU card that does not run to hot in your Amiga case. Am I right?
* and you want a card which works well with your Amiga power supply,
  so that you do not need to use a 100 Watt PC power supply for it.


This means for many chips your AMIGA does not have good enough cooling and not good enough power supply.

An FPGA based 68K would be happy with this cooling requirements.

And performance wise it can beat PowerUP PPC cards
and does beat hands down stuff like 240 Mhz Coldfire or low clocked ARMs.

So with the low end chips a good 68K has no problem to compete.

Do you want to run 68K code?
Then this means you need to run 68K in emulation on your ARM.
In this case a good 68K can easily compete and beat the absolute high end ARM chips.

I have an A500 (stock, since I sold my GVP A530), an A600 (w/ACA630, A604, Subway USB, & wireless NIC) and an A1200 (w/Blizzard 060 & SCSI, Subway USB & wireless NIC), as well as many other Classic Amiga models in my collection and both flavors of PPC NG systems, using an X1000 for AmigaOS4.x and several G4 & G5 Mac's for MorphOS.  But even with all of these options available to me, I was quite saddened when the Natami project became stalled, or stopped (I don't know if it is cancelled, or just on hold).

Do you know if there is any work still going on behind the scenes on the Natami project with the few developers who actually were lucky enough to get a Natami MX motherboard?  Is there any chance that it will get restarted, revived, or taken over by other developers who are working with FPGA's?

Or is it more likely that something different, but similar might be produced by the people like you who are currently working on FPGA systems to run AmigaOS and software?

Even though I like all of the variety and capabilities of all the Amiga Inspired platforms, I still would prefer the Natami approach, if we could get a working SAGA, or AAA, or what ever you want to call an improved graphics system.  It does not have to be "State of the Art", or compete with any modern systems, it just has to be one order of magnitude better than the last Commodore AGA system, plus it needs to have some modern connectivity ports and drivers.  Some programming tools would be a big help too, or just update the old 68k programming tools to make it easy to create new software for this imaginary new updated Amiga system.

I would love to read that people are still working on making the Natami, or a similar system a reality, and that something will be finished within the next few months.

[amigadave]

Thanks, this is nice to hear.
Let me answer it this way.

Our plan is to bring out the card for every AMIGA model.
We also plan to then create a stand alone version of the card.

As you might know the people doing this CPU card previous worked in the NATAMI team...
Does this answer your question?

Thanks for that answer biggun.  And YES!, you should be proud of the work that has been done so far and if most of the Amiga community does not show their appreciation for your work, take it from me, there are hundreds and probably thousands of people who appreciate your work and were really looking forward to the Natami project being completed.  They now are looking forward to your project to bring us accelerator cards for all Amiga models.

I am guessing that your stand alone FPGA motherboard will NOT be the same as the Natami MX motherboard, is that correct?

It just seems a shame that so much work went into the Natami MX motherboard design, and it seemed to be so close to being completed enough to be released to the public for sale, even though there were some design goals and software components that had not been finished.

I see it as no different than my X1000 and AmigaOS4.x, which is still a WIP, while we wait for AmigaOS4.2 to be completed, with the many major design goals that are planned and being worked on.  

If the Natami MX motherboard had enough drivers completed, and was capable of running AmigaOS3.9 (with or without any of the proposed improvements to the AGA graphics system), I would want such a system.  Specially with all the improvements you and others have made in softcore 68k CPU designs.

I am sure I am not alone and many others would also purchase a Natami MX motherboard (or its successor, if you have designed a new stand alone motherboard), if we knew that development work was ongoing and would continue until all the design goals were completed.

Edit:  As one or two other Amiga users may have written already in other threads, it seems like the advancement of softcore 68k CPU design and Amiga custom chipset duplication in FPGA, is reaching a point where we should soon see an FPGA Amiga clone that outperforms any Classic Amiga system and 060 accelerator card combination.  Plus it should have the advantage of integrated Ethernet & USB ports and drivers, more memory, perhaps increased "Chip RAM", and some day in the future, enhanced graphics resolutions & color depth.  I think someone wrote that it is so close to happening, they can almost taste it.  When this finally happens, I expect to see renewed interest and development of add-on enhancements to AmigaOS3.9 that will begin to match features that have already been added to AmigaOS4.x and MorphOS and AROS.  The 68k programmers will come back, put their teeth back in, comb over their last few remaining hairs across their heads and use their walkers to get across the room to their computing desks, so they can start coding again.  :lol:

[amigadave]

..community not showing appreciation???

I did not say that he was NOT getting support, I meant IF he did not feel he was getting enough support.  Most users remain silent and don't post to any forum sites, though they may read them every day.  So, I just meant that IMO, he has great support of the community, even if he does not see it often.  (Edit:  Sadly, I don't have time to visit EAB or A1k forum sites, except for rare occasions when a link in a forum post on A.org or AW.net takes me there)

it is completely different in my eyes, starting with the amount of funds involved, the experienced companies and the distribution channels involved in it. and exactly here it shows that even such entities may get over challenged by the complexity of such projects.

My comparison was not the companies or individuals behind each effort, but the fact that both systems (as far as I could tell) were working well enough to let users begin playing with them, but that some of the major design goals were still a WIP.  

That was the only part I was comparing.  Even if the work on 68k soft core CPUs and boards like the FPGA Arcade Replay, or biggun's accelerator boards and stand alone motherboard, were to go Open Source and users had to make small production runs of the pcb's themselves (I don't think that either are planned to go Open Source, just saying if they did), I think the situation would still be similar, in that most of the design work has been completed, to the point where both are usable, but some goals are still being worked on.

It appears that there are enough developers interested in making an advanced FPGA Amiga clone, and certainly enough users still interested in buying and using one, to keep these projects moving forward and they should very soon produce a system that surpasses the best Classic Amiga we have so far had to use.  Exciting times for users wanting to stay with 68k based Amiga systems.

[amigadave]

Not sure it will fit CDTV, theres not much room.

I am hoping that it will fit into the CDTV, as I have a brand new, old stock, CDTV that I bought from Carl Sassenrath a few years ago during one of the AmiWest Shows.  I would love to upgrade it with a fast CPU expansion and more memory, so it could run almost any OCS & ECS software.

Gunnars claim that he may be able to make expansion boards that upgrade an A500 to AGA and increase Chip RAM above the 2mb limit are also very interesting.  Would this require additional hardware added to this CPU upgrade card, or is this card pictured that will fit into the CDTV capable of doing all of these things?

[amigadave]

This picture is the CDTV mainboard right?

From the mainboard the card will fit fine.
Is there anything on top/ over  the mainboard wich could give problems?

Yes, some of the CDTV units, like mine, come with a daughter board for the CDTV special ROM chips.  This is close to the CPU, so it might not work on CDTV's using that ROM daughter board.  Also, the clearance above the 68000 CPU to the top case is small.  How high is this new CPU accelerator card?

I will open up both of my CDTV's to look for any other obstructions and let you know.

[amigadave]

Then it properly wouldn't fit (not with the planned extra board), I have to check my CDTV (with Carl Sassenrath goodies) when I get chance, maybe the week end.

Give me the full specs height wise and I will measure it. Be nice to upgrade this CDTV as I can't play any WHDload stuff on it, . Just gives blank screen.
Being able to upgrade it to AGA would be just WoW!!!.

2cm is probably going to be too high to fit into the CDTV case without modification (cutting a hole in the top case), which I really don't want to do.

Too bad, as I was hoping to put one of these Phoenix accelerators into my CDTV, but maybe we can talk Gunnar and team into designing a low height version just for CDTV owners some time in the future, when they have made tons of money selling the first Phoenix accelerators for A500 & A2000 owners, since the A500 is obviously the most common Amiga ever made (or was it the A1200?).

Personally I would love to see a complete CDTV replacement motherboard with a standard CD/DVD drive & controller (Read & Write capable), instead of the propietary CD drive and controller Commodore used.  The CDTV is a cool looking case and with the right replacement motherboard and drive mechanism, could be a fantastic retro Amiga system.

[amigadave]

Or, we could just get realistic.

What is realistic or not for a hobbyist to accomplish using an FPGA of sufficient size and speed, plus all the work that has been done since Dennis of MiniMig fame showed us that it was possible to create a very compatible Amiga clone, added to the ease of creating custom cases with a 3D printer, has changed drastically over the last few years.

Most ideas are not cost effective for production and sale to other people, but so much more is possible for an Amiga hobbyist to do for just themselves, if they don't mind spending the time and money to make almost anything they want.

Definitely a very interesting time to be an Amiga enthusiast, no matter what part of our community you prefer, or are interested in using and supporting.  It is a real credit to how inspiring the original design(s) were 30 years ago.  I hope that everyone of us will participate in the 30th Anniversary of the 1985 release of the Amiga next July and celebrate all that has been accomplished, and what continues to be worked on and improved, after all of the failures and let downs we have suffered.  I hope that at least some computer media outlets will take notice and give the Amiga some credit for all of it's innovations, and all of the people who it has inspired over the last 30 years.

More news about a planned event & banquet dinner for next July will be released, when we have the details worked out.  Events are also planned in Germany (and I hope other countries around the world), so if you can't attend the banquet dinner and museum event in Mountain View, California next July, I hope you will be able to attend a 30th Anniversary event closer to where ever you live.