Stock traders are idiots.

[KennyR]

Cymric wrote:
Right now we've created a twitchy and nervous monster where the winner is the stock broker with the quickest reflexes, not the one with the best economic insight.

Welcome to the Free Market.

There are two problems with trying to limit the market. One, economic theory is far from perfect and people might even make things worse if the limits are wrongly thought out. Two, there are too many people with the Libertarian/Conservative/Monetarist notion that limiting the market - for any reason - is evil socialism and so will therefore destroy the market.

[KennyR]

@Fade

And so you'd rather have a system that can be summed up as "First to get to the pie eats the whole thing. Everyone else was too slow. Tough luck."

The problems with such systems is that they are inherently unfair. Unfair systems don't last. What happens is that those who were quick or smart or just plain lucky get the edge, then they can take everything from everyone else, because nothing is there - apart from evil socialism - to stop them. Monopoly of the few, oligarchy, plutocracy, is the only outcome. The French and the Russians are at least two examples in history where the plutocracy became so unbearable that even the madness Marx dreamt up was preferable.

And you talk of people in socialist nations as dumb, timid cattle just because they aren't allowed to own guns and don't miss this "vital" right in the slightest? Why is it then that, culturally and economically, Europe is flourishing? They don't have your view on letting capitalism go and having it run by a few very rich people. They don't have your view on letting people do every single thing for themselves, including defence. And yet they seem very free.

And it's ironic really, that your attitude prevails in a country where you can get arrested without charge on anti-terrorism laws for saying "Bush is out of control" in a public place, and where every social reform is blocked by people who still think dinosaur bones were buried by Satan to lead us astray. How's that for freedom?

[KennyR]

mdwh2 wrote:
If FluffyMcDeath (or whoever) wants to advocate a specific alternative to capitalism, then he should say what that alternative is. All the while it's just capitalism bashing, all I can do is pick particular examples - a centrally controlled communist society being the most common example.

He's speaking in absolutes, which rarely exist in politics. Democracy, for instance, is far from true democracy. True socialism is communism, or anarchy, depending on viewpoint. True capitalism is not limited by anything, not even ethics; so it's a sort of non-collective fascism. I think we'd both agree that absolutes are undesirable, no? Unfortunately, there are many who don't.

Socialists, in general, are just people who believe the balance between true socialism and true capitalism should lean towards socialism, in the interests of social justice. Life without capitalism is not an option. For people who aren't insane or insanely rich, life without socialism is equally bad.