Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...

[KennyR]

BigBenAussie wrote:
MHO this whole discussion will 'one day'(wanted to say soon) be rendered irrelevant given what will ultimately be the huge demand that will be generated in the Amiga One. Amiga One units will outnumber the Pegasos so incredibly quickly once it is released that the market will determine the true Amiga successor.

Not unless they can get cheaper hardware. Preferably cheaper hardware that works properly.

[KennyR]

Waccoon wrote:
They decided to use proprietary hardware despite their "Amiga Anywhere" initiative. They decided to build their own hardware despite the fact they know nothing about manufacturing. They settled on a wimpy, little-known PowerPC chipset when powerful, robust, competitive, and well-tested x86 chipsets were staring them in the face.

The PPC is not the problem. PPC is the best short-term solution for an NG AmigaOS - full backwards compatibility with 68k on x86 is impossible, as the AROS team will tell you. I'm not interested in an OS that doesn't run at least a little of my Amiga software. I might as well skip to Windows or Linux then.

The problem is a broken northbridge and a broken AC97, which was later removed from newer designs. Unfortunately Articia will cripple the A1 design for years to come, no matter how some people try to deny it.

Don't tell me magical x86 chipsets doesn't suffer from bugs - even mass produced, widely used ones. For instance my PC *still* BSODs every six hours or so due to its buggy VIA VT chipset. And the better chipsets are jealously guarded and developer support is non-existent. Even on linux support is poor and patchy. For a niche system like OS4, support would be impossible.

[KennyR]

@BigBenAussie

Where exactly do you get this idea that OS4 will be an unstoppable market when it comes out? There are currently only 1000 or so A1 users and this will be very lucky to get to 2000. Worldwide, Amiga name is either completely unknown or a laughing stock. People aren't interested in an OS where badly behaved software can bring down the system. People aren't interested in hardware that will cost them a bomb yet still be seriously underpowered by modern standards.

OS4 isn't in a position to dictate any standards. As we've seen, it's already being forced to change to compare to other Amigalike OS's due to user demand. If it was up to users it would already run on Pegasos. Hell, it would even run on PCs. I don't see where you're getting this delusion from that when it comes out it'll have tens of thousands of users and be able to set its own standards. That just isn't going to happen.

I think the whole point of the Amiga is that it is Amiga compatible and if Morphos does not maintain compatability with the official Amiga Operating System, then why would you stick with Morphos except if you already own one.

Because MorphOS is MORE compatible with the original AmigaOS than OS4 is!

[KennyR]

BigBenAussie wrote:
Not unstoppable in the broad sense, I am not foolish enough to think it will take the world by storm, but the A1/OS4 solution is sure to reinvigorate the platform far more than the Pegasos could ever hope for.

The Amiga name is the only advantage they have. They aren't going to invigorate a thing unless they open up the market. That means better customer choice.

Where exactly do you get this idea that OS4 will NOT be an unstoppable market when it comes out?
I think 1000 A1 users without an OS specially built for the hardware speaks for itself. The wiff of OS4 had these people purchasing A1s. Imagine when it actually arrives.

As you can see from some of the replies here, Amigans are not exactly queuing up for an A1. You'll find much more positive support of the A1 on AmigaWorld - but most of those supporters already have one, either owned or preordered.

There isn't going to be an explosion of sales of the A1. Even without Genesi to take a chunk of the A1's potential userbase, the sad truth is the A1 is just too expensive for the risk. It would get away with it if it had better support and more users, but it doesn't.

So you're a windows user. OK. XP is better. Why all this self flagulation? What is wrong with you? Is Morphos getting you down already?

I use MorphOS 99% of the time, but that's not the point. I couldn't advise someone who's never used AmigaOS to try it. My family couldn't cope if some app crashed and took down the whole system. They couldn't cope with limited Amiga browsers.

The Amigalike OS's and AmigaOS itself are for Amiga lovers only. People may like their speed at first sight, but once they've been crashed and lost work a few times or been told that "there's no software to do that" a few times, suddenly they get a lot less keen.

First we get the previous owners who left the system. THEN THE WORLD!!!! MAHAHAH

Have you ever met any ex-Amigans now using Windows or Linux? They can be the most anti-Amiga people on the planet. They look at AmigaOS with nothing but scorn.

And for the reasons above, not many new users are going to be tempted into spending a very large amount of money on an OS just not suited to them. It's just the way it is.

The hardware, is what it is, and it can only grow from where it gets. The nice thing about Amiga hardware was that upgrading wasn't madatory. I didn't need an A3000 my A500 was fine. Get it!!! But I could still go and get a go faster board or an A4000. The power users will always be playing catch up and that is fine. Just give me the equivalent of the A500 for now and I'll be fine. That's all I want to see right now.

And that's fine with me too. A G3 is pathetic by modern standards but I love it. But I paid about $300 for the Pegasos motherboard, not $800. I was actually planning to get an A1, but the constant delaying of OS4 and the ever-climbing price of the A1 made me promise myself in 2002: if it gets to Autumn 2003 and there is no OS4, I will buy a Pegasos. The deadline came and I got one. I wasn't tempted by Genesi propaganda. I was repelled by the state of affairs in the OS4 camp and it's continuing slide into dogma .

And there are perhaps thousands like me. Unless something is sorted out, and I mean SOON, OS4 will lose all these potential customers to the Pegasos, the PC, and the Mac.

You're going to have to face facts that OS4 is the official AmigaOS.

It doesn't matter to me one bit any more. It's everything I wanted from a PPC AmigaOS. For me, this is the real new AmigaOS.

[KennyR]

Wacoon wrote:
PowerPC isn't binary compatible with 68K. I used some of the first PowerPC Macs in existence which used 68K emulation, and they were absolutely the slowest computers on the planet. If you have to emulate 68K code, what difference does the new CPU make?

Endianness.

For instance, a PPC AmigaOS can use emulated libs in a native app and vice versa. A x86 one never can. That means you could run IBrowse on a UAE layer in AROS, but not with native x86 Zune - you'd have to use emulated old 68k MUI libs too. Ask the AROS team the difficulties.

...I thought all Linux systems were like that. Kinda makes you wonder how the other hundred-or-so embedded x86 OSes in the world stay in business.

They get driver binaries.

[KennyR]

restore2003:
As always your just blabbering about something you have no clue about, just because you have a high post count doesnt mean that everyone should take your statements and opinions seriously.

You know perfectly clear that there are great number of ex amigans sitting on the fence, using win xp or whatever, waiting for something to happen.

And I know there is an even bigger number of them who scoff at the Amiga, and know all its weaknesses so are great at using them to criticise it. You'll have to trust me on this, I've spoken to *many* on IRC. OSNews and Slashdot are usually full of them too. The moment they leave their Amigas for a PC or Mac they seem to suddenly believe that the Amiga was the ultimate in crapness, because it can't do . There are lots too, like Bill and Waccoon here, who are simply not happy with PPC hardware and will never return unless Amiga's direction changes to x86. Other reasons for other people include lack of software, lack of memory protection, lack of games, lack of hardware...you get the picture.

There's no vast sea of undecideds out there. That's a myth, and if you believe it then it'll bite you in the bitter end.

[KennyR]

We judge by our experiences.

[KennyR]

No, MorphOS doesn't need the Amiga name. It needs a big market, more users, more developers, modern hardware, advertising. With all of that, it could go far. With only an Amiga name, it would simply be a niche system with the Amiga name with no users. There are no inherent magical powers in this name. So far, the name hasn't really effected the people choosing to buy a cheaper Pegasos over an A1, has it? It hasn't got people who want x86 to buy one either, has it?

People buy the best deal they can get, period. Name is secondary, unless you're into high fashion.

I don't like to attack people personally but It reached boiling point this weekend when I received a few emails from Agencies who BTW I was trying to interest in Pegosos products. They checked the web and I guess stumbled across some of your prodigious postings. They suggested I come up with some other platform.

Yeah, right. :lol: Like all that anti-Windows and anti-Linux stuff on the web and all its much nastier fanatics have damaged support for either platform. I could even point you to AW for some much more hardline pro-OS4 material. I find your claim very unlikely.

[KennyR]

Hammer wrote:
IF that was the case, Pegasos HW should have romped home over Eyetech's relatively expensive A1-XE/A1-SE.

It could never do that now. There has been too much bitterness, too much FUD and disinformation, and too many people digging their heels in and denouncing Pegasos as the Great Satan. Even if Pegasos got the Amiga name, these people would not buy it. There have been people making pretty sure MOS wouldn't get the clean break it deserved from the first day it was announced.

[KennyR]

Hammer wrote:
It didn't stop Microsoft and DEC from working together e.g. DEC sued MS for VMS copyright breaches in their Windows NT product. They both signed an agreement that benefits each other.

The very idea that the same thing could happen to the Amiga civil war is, at this time, fairly ludicrous. There is no big money incentive to force down the egos. Many of the decisions made since 1999 in the Amiga scene were made just to piss someone else off, that's how bad it is.