FPGA Amiga

[Chucky]

Yeah, it's clearly a high priority to ridicule me

Did this guy get any help yet?
http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=5¬e=12046

They are taken by surprise maybe, someone developing with a vampire?

ok!  will be quiet.  just had to..

[Chucky]

I have no idea if democoders can be tagged  as "developers"  but I have been talking to many of them. (you know people that also does the demos that wins compos etc)  and still have to find ONE single person saying that he want to do something for it.

so if those can be tagged as a developer, there is quite a "few" of them


edit: but true. demos is maybe a different thing.. so...

[Chucky]

At A32 I talked to some people, it is very known that I am not a too happy person about the vampire (well I am a demoscener so.)

and there was quite a few persons telling me "Why should I even bother about it when I cannot use the tools I have been using for ages" (meaning mungwall etc)   so there are people out, that are "pissed" but just simply doesn't say anything. they just ignore it instead.
(as IF you say anything, you WILL get the angry vampiremob on you)

[Chucky]

not only one person.  some.  not many but there was people talking about it.
AND actually.  like when the team offered a "free" core for people doing their own acceleratorcards.  people asked about the MMU!  Gunnar was more than clear that he was not interested.   and this starts a catch22.   they develope new stuff and functions for the vamp.  but at the same time doesn't fill the request of the few persons coding on the machine, making it hard for those interested in using the new stuff do.  well do it.   so the new stuff will not be that used.

somewhat like the PPC back in the days.  Compilers was so expensive so very few supported it.

IF supplying the coders with the tools they need (debuggingtools, compilers etc etc) then the software comes and then the users can get more out of it.  No instead IF you ask for a feature you only get a harsh comment that "noone is interested"  or maybe a trumpish answer like "my solution is the best anyway. even if there is no software supporting it, but mine is best"   it gets annoying.  and only very few people comments it, the rest just shuts up and ignores it.

so YES! developers are getting pissed, but instead of saying it, they are quiet and by that doesn't have to talk to all fanboys bashing them of being "haters"

[Chucky]

You said it wasn't under powered.



Which is it?

IMO they would avoid it because it's too expensive and a bit like joining a cult.

Vampire too expensive.  still they code for the 060..?

no.  they avoid the vampire as there is no reason whatsoever to support it from a demosceners point of view.

new stuff. why? then they can just go to shadertoy and do something there.
no, they want to show off what they can do with the Amiga.  you know.  AGA, 060. (50MHz usual goal aswell)

not even RTG..   higher bandwidth etc to chipmem.  well back in the 90s it would be loved. but now it is just the old boundarys that counts and must be kept.

[Chucky]

exactly!  there is more or less only the democoders left doing programming on the amiga. (and C64)  with a FEW exceptions.

so why even bother using valuiable LE space with stuff never getting used.   so you can have a salepoint?

and deocoders move to newer?  well. they moved to the PC.  those left want to do as a sport nice stuff wit the rules that exists. simple. as there is a sport in doing that.

so remove those rules.  why even bother about 080 etc when you can go to a fast GPU instead doing shader%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.


repetive. maybe.  but it seems that people magically thinks putting in new stuff will be cool when it is never used.  just pointelss waste of hours doing it.

[Chucky]

then why even bother to join when you have so few debuggingtools.
People programming on modern platforms today are used to very good debuggingtools, so go to vampire and du stuff is go back in time very much.  so it is not that interesting for them.

Havingh that said: new stuff like AMMX will just be many hours of time for nothing  using valueable LE space that could be used for other things insttead (like fpu or MMU maybe?)

and.  well "Demosceners was the future, now they are the cryin past! If they dont want to move along its up to them."  ANYONE except me finding that PRETTY ironic. when it comes to using an Amiga?

[Chucky]

yeah I know that we will never use it as a main platofrm.  maybe 2-3 test-things.

BUT! who WILL use AMMX if noone actuallty does software USING it?

and later with the AGA thing.  WHO will use the new stuff introduced?   it is not like there is any API using it anyway.   so it feels like doing stuff just to be able to say "HEY WE GOT COOL STUFF"  but..  noone can/will use it.  instead of implementing the stuff we had. FIRST  and then put in the new stuff?  it is so strange and SAD!  as we do NEED a new good FPGA replacement for our beloved machines.. it is getting harder for me to get hold of 060 cpus etc. so this would be needed.

sadly the wrong path.  well luckly there are other FPGA solutions.

Talk to gunnar etc. well  I haven't done it.  as I feel that there is absolutley not idea of doing that, being reading how he answers others with suggestions. he answers them as trump on a day in a bad mood.

Sad.  as the hardware is awesome.

[Chucky]

the same and it is pointed out like a broken record that. WHO will do the programming?   just think of it: most sources of software is lost anyway.  this means software needs to be written from scratch.   will this happen? most likly not..

so why even bother adding new stuff instead of perserving what we got?

[Chucky]

Being fully compatible BRINGS the bad things aswell.. like the crashes you are talking about.. as you might know.  Amiga software is pretty often actually to be honest much badcode..  extremly much. so you never know what it expects etc etc.  so if it behaves different. some code might also execute wrong.

say they test "ok do we have a 040 or 060?"  and they test an instruction that exists on the 040 but not on the 060..   and "OK"  this instruction exists.  then we are a slow 040..  lets do this routine instead of the nicer 060 code..

and voila.  result is not as expected..

(even if there ARE better ways of detecting the 060. this was however one example how it could be)

so for me. .FPGA must be EXACT.. or not at all :-/

[Chucky]

well if it should be a 68000 replacement.  but this is abotu the fastest.. so exact 060.

[Chucky]

Well  I did not think my vampire was anytthing close to "stable"  but then I haven't even bothered to boot it since 1 year.. but I haveheard of others having "strange issues" but going back to 020 or 030 again (their old turbocard)  everything was stable again.

so it seems to be what software you actuallty use in your amiga.
(OK yes.  over 1 year. much have happend so I guess it would be somewhat more stable if  I upradedmine and tested again)