Converting TV signal from Amiga to HDMI?

[mindprober]

I'm considering one of these SCART conversion devices. I have already acquired an RGB -> SCART cable.

My TV is an almost ten year old Sharp  LC-37D90U. It does just fine with most HDMI devices connected. I even have an HDMI switcher I am using for a couple of computers with HDMI out.

I like the argument in favor of choosing component over HDMI in the case of the Amiga as I would be concerned about how my old TV would handle a 4:3 image over HDMI. It is not sophisticated enough to handle "computer" signals over HDMI unless they are in the native 1920x1080 resolution. My TV also has a DVI-I input but it is picky about what you feed it too. Right now, an old Intel Mac Mini does fine on that input.

So getting to the component input, I have only ever connected video-based devices here (DVD and Blu-Ray players) and they do well for the most part.

I am concerned about how the TV will handle a PAL signal through this input, though. My Amiga 500 is an NTSC-native device but I plan to run it in PAL mode from time to time. Currently, I am using an RGB --> S-Video device and the S-Video input on the Sharp is rather poor, as would be expected. It seems to be better when fed and interlaced signal. When fed an NTSC Hi-Res, it flickers! Just the opposite of what you get with Commodore CRTs! When fed a PAL signal, the display starts rolling.  

If this is what happens over S-Video, is this an indication of what I will expect over component?

With the Windows PC connected over HDMI, I run WinUAE in PAL frequently. However, I suspect this is actually a cheat. The emulation may be running in PAL, the screen resolution may change, but I doubt the TV is actually receiving a 50Hz signal. This is fullscreen mode, by the way. I see that WinUAE has other v-sync options in the display section that might change the way this behaves. Perhaps I can use that to more-closely simulate a real Amiga's video output.

Anyway, for the reasons described here, I think the component is a better way to go. My only concern is if my TV can handle PAL over component. Is there any way to test this prior to purchasing the adapter?

[mindprober]

My results are much the same as magnetic's. I see a rock-solid monochromatic image, in the correct aspect-ratio as well! The TV reports it as 480i.  

Unfortunately, when I switch to PAL mode, the screen goes blank.  

I will test an interlaced screen when I get my WB 3.1 booted up again.

[mindprober]

djos,

Were you referring to TVs in your native country?  

I saw your post over on EAB where you pointed out that North American sets would still have trouble:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=72555&page=3

So it would seem my only solution would be SCART to HMDI if I want to see a PAL display mode. But the disadvantages of SCART to HDMI are just sad.

Any tv with component input should support 50/60hz content natively, it's part of the standard so not a cheat at all - grab the component converter and give it a shot, mine works in NTSC and PAL happily.

[mindprober]

I'm a little late getting back on this thread to report my experience with one of the SCART to HMDI devices. It does the job, but I have to agree with djos on the soft-focus effect with objects that are in motion. If you're only a casual user and are sitting at a distance to a large screen TV, you probably won't mind this at all.

In addition to that, however, I found another problem I find more offensive. Take a look at the attached image. Why the zipper-like pattern? I am using overscan on my Workbench screen to maximize the display, but since it shows up on games as well, I have no control over those.

This happens on NTSC signals only (what I will be using most of the time). PAL signals do not show this.

@djos -- does the SCART to Component adapter do the same? I have an NTSC/PAL friendly LCD panel now with a component input. One of these devices could be a good fit.

[mindprober]

Not sure what you mean. In this case, I am using an actual widescreen LCD monitor at the 4:3 aspect ratio. Any resizing would distort that and cause other undesirable effects.  

A better question is why this exists in the first place. Perhaps something to do with "exceeding the limits". I'm just guessing.

Can't you just resize the display on the TV to get rid of these?  That's what I would do.  

[mindprober]

There are two target audiences in this thread though: 1) The A1200 users who can install more capable internal video expansions and 2) The A500 North American users like myself that must rely on external expansions only.  

4 pages of discussion when the solution was nicely summarised by paul1981 in post #5.  

The indivision not only provides the best quality output but also provides 1024x768 and 1920x1280 resolutions.

[mindprober]

Agreed. I am curious as to what your SCART to HDMI converter looks like then. Perhaps you found a better one than mine.

That is a strange artifact, TBH i've never seen it on on either the RGB-HDMI or the RGB-YUV converter no matter whether im using 50hz or 60hz.

There's certainly no harm in trying the RGB-YUV converter if you can find a seller that offers a money back warranty if you doesnt work for you.

[mindprober]

Only mono output from the A500's native phone jack.  

Composite on the A600/A1200? Now that may have been the simplest solution in my case. If The A500 only had color composite out. This would also have the added benefit of not having an image that is "too sharp".

I get full colour output on both pal and ntsc though the ntsc picture is better the PAL is a little "fuzzy" but still looks good

[mindprober]

And that is identical to my own. I am curious if there is something else involved. I will do some tests with just booting up from floppies to rule out anything funny going on with my Workbench settings.

Mine is identical to DanBeever's unit he posted pics of HERE.

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Since I have the A500, that would be the Indivision ECS. My goal now is to stay in the 15KHz domain and steer clear of scan doublers/flicker fixers/hacking my case. I also read about some bugginess with this adapter and the firmware hasn't been updated in a while. Then, there's the availability of the hardware itself. AmigaKit's stock shows "T.B.A".

They make Indivisions for all models of Amiga.  I use them in my A500 and A2000 and would never go back, or consider any of these hacked up, "save a penny", jury-rigged solutions in these threads.  But, have fun with that!  

[mindprober]

And that is what has me thinking the SCART to Component converter will be my best option now. With nothing fancy going on, it will leave my LCD to handle all the processing. Indications so far show none of the annoying side effects.

Btw, it's worth noting that the conversion from RGBs to YUV is a relatively simple mathematical conversion and doesnt require scaling or any other processing.

[mindprober]

Thank you very much for the info. This explains why I have seen this in the past with my A3000.

So the reason I do not see this when I send my LCD display a native 15KHz signal is probably due to the display chopping it off internally?

This gives me hope again for the SCART to component adapter. I have already tested the mono output to the LCD's GREEN component input, and besides the lack of color, there were none of the other problems I mentioned.

In the mean time, I will hunt down the border blanking program.

That's normal for NTSC video; alternate lines are longer/shorter. You see the same thing if you e.g. connect an Amiga 3000's VGA output to a monitor and reduce the image width. The zipper pattern isn't usually visible on 4:3 monitors since it's normally past the right edge of the screen. With a 16:9 screen however, unless the TV and/or converter blanks the extreme right edge of the image, you see the effect.

A couple of workarounds for Workbench use: run a border-blanking program to set the border to black. Or force interlace mode (run Lacer 0). That way the zipper pattern should alternate on successive frames, which may or may not be less annoying.

[mindprober]

Sigh. I received my SCART to component adapter, plugged in my same RGB to SCART cable I have used successfully with my other converter box, but no picture! I tried it on my TV's component video input also. Still nothing. It acts like it is trying to synch but nada....

Could it just be a bad unit? I have read about other people having to pop open the case and make adjustments but I'm not getting anything to adjust.

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Not sure if this thingy even qualifies to have a warranty. The seller does have a return policy, however. I have already contacted them. Waiting for a reply.

Well if it arrived dead and you open it, then you void your warranty.

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The seller agreed to send me another unit. It does seem unlikely that the converter box would fail though.

I am starting to question my RGB to SCART cable. Yes, it works fine with the SCART to HDMI box, but I am reading that not all RGB to SCART cables are the same. Perhaps this new box is a bit more sensitve.

@djos, did you say you got your cable at AmigaKit also?