**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[Pat the Cat]

Pat,

I not trying to build a computer to do anything other than have a Retro Demo machine:
->> Real retro feel (So Amiga Monitor is Fine, 8088 Bridgeboard is perfect, RLL drive nice touch).
->> Show old games, history of Amiga OS, PC OS, etc
 ->> Using (Real A2000 Keyboard, Mouse and Epyx Joystick adds to the feel).  
 ->> Even throwing in 5.25" and 3.5" floppy is an experience not replicatable elsewhere.

Of course a few modern convinces like the Gotek-USb-Stick, the XT-IDE SD card are a bonus to move software around and boot in many old settings (workbench's ) with EASY flip to each.

Have these Gotek/ISA-IDE cards eliminate the need for Network on Amiga. Even if I did, 68000 just too slow from what I read.
I'm better off putting back that RS232 Card into PC side, and running a Null modem to Amiga side to demonstrate old Serial communication.
(would it be cool to run Amiga Explorer on PC and talk to Amiga within the A2000/Same screen. But I doubt Explorer will work on 8088)

Having a Kickstart Switcher to allow me to Boot WB1.2, old games and also Amiga WB1.3 OS2/3 would be ideal. I am on waiting list for one, since can't seem to find any available.

Ideally a real Hard Disk on the Amiga side would be nice, since I can tell now with things working, the Cross-bridgeboard access to RLL drive isn't that fast. But I haven't tried Cross-bridge access to the Lo-tech SD card yet (if possible via a AMIGA PARTITION on SD card)

And last but not least as you say, memory might be needed for higher OS, and demo higher demanding Amiga SW.

So as I mentioned before, I have my mind set something like this unit... (GVC-Impact A2000+HC+8) which would give me a SCSI amiga Drive and 8 Mb of DMA memory.

(You originally recommended I get a SCSI controller, before I decided on the Lo-Tech Adapter [No regrets, it was frustrating to get fully working, but FUN to see PC fly compared to RLL drive, PLUS removable media is GREAT!!] )

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/impact2000hc8

So to summarize MY GOAL. I want a demo machine, to experience the Retro Past (Exactly like it was). With ability to expand fun projects within (like LED chasers etc)
Kind of like reading the "Future was Here Book by Maher" and then Experiencing hands on some of the Software described.

Upgrading this A2000 with a Vampire card is the last thing I want.  (I tried WinUAE and it just isn't the same)

The horror.... :rtfm:

Look Wally... there are two bottlenecks to your design.

First though, I must correct myself. I earlier posted that Linux had messed up a flag. It didn't, that's how the flag appears on the aminet.net mirror I was using. Linux/Ubuntu access to FFS partitions works just fine, for big files and little files, at nice speed onto the SD card with an FFS card. It was noob Linux user me who said otherwise.

Plug that card into an IDE, adaptor, into an ISA controller, into an XT running at a fewish Megahertz, and then mounting the card with Janus DJMount is going to make access very slow from the 7MHz 16-32 bit Amiga side. Test the speed for copying stuff around.

ISA network card and Etherbridge software through Bridgeboard and Janus might be bit quicker, but still not a quick drive? That's where just some fast RAM on the Zorro II or an accelerator will help. If you do go SCSI controller, be very very choosy. They are not all equal. Likewise, SD or IDE or CF adaptors or whatever.

Goteks can probably be awesome for Bridgeboard users, but again, slow data access - another snag, they are limited to file size length. It's a common bottleneck from the floppy era... OK, some people did use floppies for big archives, but I don't know of anybody that found them long term reliable.

If you want to deliberately recreate a floppy speed maximum experience, OK.

If you just want it to run funky demoscene stuff, then look into maybe chip RAM switcher, fast RAM expansion, ROM switcher. I don't know the dark arts of Denise switching, and am not really proficient at which Agnus is best for which demos either.

To me, an A2000 without at least one hard drive to read and write at good speed and some fast RAM is a nightmare... me, I just hack up a few Amiga mobos into a mobile rig... to each their own way. You do what's fun for you.

[Pat the Cat]

** DANGER **  WARNING **  HOOKING UP THINGS to Amiga (RGB) Video Output **

One has to be careful not to hook up things like the GBS converter to Amiga.

Look at this article http://www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/03/11/cheap-rgb-to-vga-converter-amiga/

They guys started off with a Review of GBS then edited it at the end saying it's Dangerous to use on Amiga. (At least the way I read it).

The Amiga Spec is 100ma Max Drawn from Amiga Video Output (RGB).

The GBS can draw too much and Fry your amiga Video-Output Port.  Or worse FRY your Amiga.

DIRECT to a CRT monitor with a Cable Adapter should be safe (if connected properly).
Some folks directly connect Sync Digital pins.  (Can be dangerous like the GBS)
Better to buffer TTL signals like below


the diagram above was just a google search "Amiga RGB to VGA"
(not confirmed if works *** AND IF ABOVE IS SAFE? *** (for direct connect (Amiga->CRT) rbg-signal-line voltages) )
[ Note: the 74LS08N chip is an AND chip so that is why INPUT pins(1-2) (4-5) are tied together ]

I best wait for my Proper SCART converter. (Which I assume has resistors for voltage conversion on RGB [if needed] )  
Both (Cable-Converter[AmigaKit] and SCART-converter[NewEgg] ) ordered and on the way.

I have way too much (time,effort, and cost) invested into this Amiga Project to take chances on Saving a few $ for a bad-hack and Ending my Project in Catastrophe .
That would depress me too much.

Cautious but exploratory. Something to consider, sometimes the monitor needs both syncs blobbed together to display the image. I think doing this at the monitor end of the cable is safest, with the buffer chip hopefully protecting the Amiga.

Bigger, classier old school monitors are better bets for displaying Amiga images, as a rule of thumb. Analogue rather than digital, that only gives 16 different hues - effectively a locked pallette.

I think you mean scan doublers! Yes, many scan doublers had flicker fix as well!

Other  way around. All flicker fixers have scan doubler, as well as a memory  buffer to store the "odd" interlaced raster while outputting a single  "even and odd mixed" progressive raster. If it needed to output double  lines because the Amiga was doing non-interlaced, it cut in the scan  doubler.

A scan doubler on it's own can't display all Amiga displays? That's how I've always understood the difference.

[Pat the Cat]

Chance is almost 100% you will have to mod the A2000 ROM socket to take a 512KB ROM (Kickstart 2.04 upwards).

This is probably why you never upgraded.

As for Indi, from screenshots I have seen, it appears to replicate both OCS and ECS Denise very well. It is a very mature product now. The higher 24 bit resolutions need RTG support in both Kickstart (2.04) and Workbench version (2.1 upwards). But it defaults to old school Amiga resolutions so you can see what you are doing, when setting up. (RTG = ReTargetable Graphics, IIRC).

It is pretty slow having full 24 bit graphics on a 7MHz Amiga and not a good idea if you have less than 4MB of fast RAM too. Looks good, but most applications are slower. Some curiously prefer working in 24 mode rather than native screens, but you usually find that happening on A3000s and especially A4000s, when fast RAM is always 32 bit. AGA was designed for bitplane gaming rather than applications using Workbench GUI.

So, sticking with SCART might be the best plan, if you are looking for pure retro. If the IBM multisyncs to Amiga displays, then you are good anyway.

[Pat the Cat]

It is a good thing you are practicing those soldering skills Wally.  Because you are going to HAVE to do something about one capacitor on the  A2000 motherboard. Lead solder and a new iron (or just a new bit for  your current soldering iron) recommended. Nice big through hole  component, is pretty easy job, but do practice enough before you do it.

• Amiga 2000 (Rev. 4.1 and 4.3 only, other revisions have no such limitation):
  

Due to space constraints, one electrolytic capacitor must either be moved or replaced by a flatter version.

That's for fitting Indivision ECS. You HAVE to do this to fit the device.

Another possible issue ;-

All screenmodes are converted to frequencies of 60Hz or more (output  optionally at 50 Hz to avoid tearing effects), and the S-Hires mode of  the ECS chipset is displayed in full resolution. Indivision ECS can  display the ECS screenmodes even on systems that only have an OCS Denise  chip, the only requirement is an ECS Agnus chip (which is usually  present in all Amiga models made in 1990 or later).    

That's  OK? No ECS, and it works with your Agnus chip? Check the version you  have, 8372 is unlikely, I think you have earlier OCS Agnus version so  check compatible (limited to OCS but works).


Best to check will work OCS Agnus I think. It should do but I never used.



That's  probably fine for you, you are looking for a retro machine, and it's  not like OCS Amigas never had flicker fixers. They probably had more, by  proportion. Maybe you are happier with the chip RAM low.



Upgrading  the chip RAM is a much bigger deal maybe, I am unsure of best solution  for your current motherboard. Doing that and later Agnus should be  option for you, but not really needed - you want a Bridgeboard A2000,  stock 1988 or so. Having better compatibility is a stretch goal right  now, not the current job.



Anyway, the ROM upgrade  is basically two extra connections for the extra 2 pins on the ROM chip.  Which has a socket, makes it a lot easier fix. Again, that's an option  for you, but not urgent.

[Pat the Cat]

Manufacturer's Wiki for product here. Links to product manual (German French only) at bottom.

http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_ECS

Capacitor to move is C225, near Paula chip. Your plan sounds good, for moving it.

Indivision  ECS  will work even on A1000 with skinny Agnus even, just no ECS modes  without fat ECS Agnus. So should be good when fitted to your A2000, you get all  current screen modes, even interlaced, displayed properly on ANY 15 pin  monitior. No software required, it should just do it.

 Good idea  to fit 15 pin SVGA backplate to machine (backplate with right sized  hole), for easier connection to SVGA 15 pin monitor.

[Pat the Cat]

Now with OS3.1 (I'm totally lost)

-> Where do I begin learning OS3.1? (Trace STARTUP-SEQUENCE? and peek around?)

Three key differences on the Workbench side;-

1) You can now "Show All Files" on Workbench GUI to be able to click on files that don't have an icon (same file name ending in .info).

2) You now have an ENV: folder on the RAM disk and an ENV-ARC drawer on the system (hard disk) for storing ENVironment settings.

3) You now have a Locale drawer, also on the system (hard disk in your case) for storing Catalog information for programs. Some programs insist on that, usually because they have different language options, and they need to know what language to use. So get used to stuff Catalogs for programs into Locale.

All Workbench 2.0 and up operate like that, with subtle changes to the DEVS drawer.

Biggest difference in 3.0 upwards is the use of Datatypes. This lets you set up default tools for operating with different file types. For instance, specifying a given program to display PNG files, or edit or convert files to different formats.

--> What is good way to backup my current Hard Drive OS install?

 
 Attach another hard drive in the chain, format it, copy the files over.

[Pat the Cat]

(head scratch)

I guess it boils down to - where do you put the RLL drive and 5.25 floppy drives.

I'd be tempted to keep the RLL internal and get the floppies external...

... Increases rarity. Machines with internal 5.25 inch floppy drives are rare, but machines with external 5.25 floppy drives are even rarer...

As for heat, old school hard drives do usually run hot, especially when repeatedly accessed (low level format does that).

You can wire up thermistors/thermocouples to sense heat etc, but they don't actually remove heat. Just help give you a heart attack through nervous exhaustation... even if they are very accurate.

Fact is, inside an A2000 it can hit over 50C and everything keeps running anyway. For that era of technology, not unusual.

[Pat the Cat]

Thanks for pix - am currently verifying schematics for both USA and International A1000 keyboards, so it's very useful to see what the later A2000 keyboards were built like.
 
 All with the goal of making repairs easier, possibly also spare part manufacture.

[Pat the Cat]

Pat,

You are welcome, and if you want a High Res, better quality photo of the Keyboard PC board, just PM me.

PM sent with email address.

[Pat the Cat]

Shoot!!!

I peeked at the Motherboard.
The Amiga 68000 CPU is much larger then the 68010 I got.

I never knew they came in different sizes. (What is the part # I should be looking for, for proper 68010)

Oh well the 68010 was only $5

They come in SMD and DIL form factors (Dual Inline set of pins rather than squarish).

68020 and above is never DIL, below that (first types released) were in DIL but later you could get SMD squarish ones.

So the part number is still 68010, form factor of DIL ("I want a rectangular one with two sets of pins, not a squarish one with pins on all sides") should get you one that fits.

That doesn't mean it will go any faster. Seem to recall mine coming on a circuit board with a few extras on it (clock frequency doubler, I think it was). And a dual set of pins underneath to connect it to the socket.

Sorry to be vague on that last point, it's been a LONG time...

Amiga ACCELERATOR Arrived (Won't be needing a Vampire Card )


Yup it finally arrived from China.

Ah, that isn't a 68010. It's a 68008, an eight bit version as found in the Sinclair QL... And sadly never in an Amiga.

[Pat the Cat]

Hi Wally.Glad you got it working.

I guess you want the external Gotek so you can finally get the case back on.

Here's a case of another 2000 that was nursed back to working;-

https://retrohax.net/amiga-2000-semi-extreme-refurb-part-one/

[Pat the Cat]

One thing you might try to get the Lo-tech working with CF - backplate mounted CF card adapter.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10000402197818.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.30cb41ddDgTZQq&algo_pvid=6c64ee57-565d-48ce-ae34-08d78b40ba05&algo_expid=6c64ee57-565d-48ce-ae34-08d78b40ba05-0&btsid=2100bdd516170318266125032e997a&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

It might not work. Unlike your sd adapter.

[Pat the Cat]

Yes, it really is Pat.

I have linked people to this thread in the past, people who are having trouble with Bridgeboards or 2000s... like, "Hey, you think this is easy, it isn't".

Have fun with your printer. You could setup as a recapper / repairer with your skills.

Quite a gap in people offering external Gotek cases, you could do that too. The world is your oyster. Try scooping, there are pearls out there.

[Pat the Cat]

Not sure what you mean by "MY PRINTER".  Maybe a typo.

Your Ender 3 3D printer.

Oh, one quirk of industrial CF cards and DOMs - they always register as fixed disk rather than removable to an IDE controller. That could be your issue with the Lowtech IDE. Also perphaps it's limited to drive size, being for older AT equipment?

[Pat the Cat]

I can't think why they would not work togeter but you probably don't need both.

If you are using the external adapter, that let's you select which DF number the external drive will have.

[Pat the Cat]

The Discord channel for that is very active.

Been taking a break from there for a while now.

https://discord.com/invite/j6rPtzxaNW

Dunno if they've got it working with Autoconfig boards yet.

EDIT: You will also need a micro sd card for the Pi. Faster is better.