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Offline Tigger

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Amiga Auction List Posted
« on: June 16, 2003, 11:09:57 PM »
Murphy Auction Page on Amiga Inc Auction

The Auction house has the full list of whats going to be auctioned off now posted at the above URL.   Lots more stuff then I think most envisioned.

[color=990000]Update!  6/16/03 : [/color] Advanced Internet bidding and the online PDF catalog are now online.
Also a clarification from the Auction site : "Amiga Inc is not going out of business.  This is not an auction of Amiga as a corporate entity.  This sale is being conducted for property management of office assets only."


[color=990000]Update!  6/13/03 : [/color] Most of the PDA's and one-off prototype units have been returned to the actual vendors (Nokia, etcetera).  There is also a note on the site verifying that this auction is being done by the property management to pay off debts owed by Amiga Inc.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2003, 06:27:52 AM »
>>>>
Not so sure about that. Amiga Inc. is our distributor (as per our SDA) and only distributes our product. They take a cut of the sales-price and that is the money they make. It might be possible they need to pay of depts first with that part of the money (not sure of your legal system and not sure if there are any more depts either), but it seems very strange to me that other people's money should be used to pay of their distributors' depth.
>>>>>

I dont think law in the Netherlands is that much different, but Amiga Inc has to settle the judgements against them before they can pay you a dime, they currently arent paying salaries to their employees/volunteers for much the same reason.  At this point, depending on how much the auction takes in (my guess is they will still owe the landlord money), they will still need to sell over 30,000 gamepacks before the will get enough royalties (counting the full sum from Microsoft into there pot) to pay there debts, and as more former employees sue, and more debters sue this number gets bigger, not counting the current volunteers, I would guess there are probably a dozen ex-employees like Bolten and Matt who are owed money.   All of them who sue (and win and they will all win) will get paid before you get paid.  They'll get paid before the volunteers get their salaries back, the problem is I'm not sure Amiga will be around long enough for them to pay everyone the money they owe them.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2003, 02:47:45 PM »
Poster: Ohno Date: 2003/6/16 1:55:35
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but Amiga Inc has to settle the judgements against them before they can pay you a dime


Again.. they distribute our products for which we get paid, they only take a cut. That cut is all they are legally entitled to so it is the only part any depter can claim.


Again, that is not how it works, unless Microsoft is writing checks directly to you and Amiga Inc is just mailing them to you, the money from Microsoft goes to an account, the money for that account will go to Bolten before it goes to you, this belief that because they are a distributer for you, you will get the money owed you while they money the courts have give to Bolten, Matt and others will go unpaid is incorrect, don't let the Canadian or the Scottsman tell you different.   As for you imaginary scenario, that doesnt work like that here as well.   First of all stores buy there merchandise, so your scenario is incorrect, but if they didnt, what would happen is you would deposit the check for the 100% and your debters would seize the money, it wouldnt matter that part of it was a "debt" to the manufacturer of the system.  And understand, in reality as a distributer, each unit they sell incurs a debt by them to you for your price per unit.   Since you are way down the food chain in the debt department, you dont have a court ordering them to pay you, etc, you will get paid after Bolten, Matt, the Landlord, the express company, the taxes for Washington State, the taxes for the IRS, etc.  I think if you ask any US lawyer they will agree with my opinion.  
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2003, 02:58:09 PM »
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And about the Peck-story: I don't have the facts (although I do know Amiga Inc's side of the story as well), but I have worked for a startup company in the past. I went months without pay as well.


Lets go over the facts then:

1) Amiga Inc didnt pay Bolten

2) Amiga Inc didnt pay his insurance

3) Amiga Inc didnt pay the taxes for the salaries when they were paying them.

4) Amiga Inc lost the lawsuit with Bolten for 30K

5) Amiga Inc failed to pay within 90 days

6) Bill McEwen claimed lots of interesting things at his deposition with Boltens lawyers.

Repeat steps 1-5 for Matt instead of Bolten.   Repeat those steps for a bunch of other ex-employees in the near future if Amiga gets any money at all.  I'm sorry you can excuse Amiga Inc criminal actions with they are working towards a dream rift, I personally dont support a dream built on lies and framed with legal threats.  
    -Tig
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2003, 04:03:04 PM »
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I'm not going to. My mind is already at peace (if it wasn't already).... besides.. it'll cost me a lot of money and he's gonna tell me exactly what you said, right?

Since thats my lawyers opinion I would agree with that statement, thankfully I don't personally have to pay my lawyer though I do have to put up with her snoring  :-).
     -Tig
Well you know I am scottish, so I like sheep alot.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2003, 04:50:08 PM »
>>>>
I was just pointing out that people are overreacting in their responses and are generally insulting the wrong people. It's just like someone who is mad at a company for faulty products and start shouting at the support-guy or helpdesk-employee.
>>>>
No, I place the blame squarely on Bill McEwen and Fleecy "I like Sheep" Moss.   I am pretty vocal about that, the lies just I have been present for have hurt the company terribly, and because of that the Amiga Community as a whole.

>>>>
And I'm not even going to respond to that 'dream built on lies'-remark, because it's too obvious that's generally not the thing people dream about. Not even those 'Evil' Amiga guys.
>>>>
Bills dream was to do an IPO and become a Billionaire, he told about 30 of us that, at least 4 of which (myself included) post regularly on this board.   Instead he has bankrupted the company, himself and several of his employees, greed is one of the 7 deadly sins for a reason.
    -Tig
Well you know I am scottish, so I like sheep alot.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2003, 07:36:15 PM »
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I personally don't see Fleecy as being responsible, but I can live with/understand your way of thinking. And there is no other way of seeing it than Bill McEwen being responsible in the end, simply by being the CEO.

First of all, as the self admitted master planner and Chief Technology Officer of Amiga Inc, he should indeed be held responsible for the issues he caused, and there are alot of them.   In many ways, I believe Fleecy is more responsible for the problems at Amiga Inc then Bill himself.    The poor choices and constant restarts which should/could have been avoided if Fleecy had a real grasp of the technology he wanted to use burned lots of money, and created the 0 income, 0 asset company that currently exists.

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But I wasn't just talking about you. I see people like Ray, Fleecy and several Amiga-Anywhere developers also being attacked for supporting the company that did all these 'nasty' things.


Ray has dug his own grave of late, and deserves to be thrown in it.   His constant double speak about being paid, about the lawsuits, about so many things with the auction have not made him any friends, and has cost him many of those he had.    If he doesnt want to comment on a situation thats fine, implying others are lying about a situation by sly comments, implying people that sue Amiga for back wages are disgruntled lazy workers is not position to take if he wanted to be thought of as an honest person in the current Amiga Inc mess.
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Well you know I am scottish, so I like sheep alot.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2003, 05:57:35 AM »
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I don't follow this stuff religiously, but I do recall that they used to be in bigger offices, and then moved into smaller offices later on (about the time their phone numbers were disconnected and all that). My guess is that they just had the stuff piled up in the corner. It's not like they had enough staff to use it all.


Just to make this perfectly clear, the auction was held at the offices they told us all about in March 2000, the 10000 sq foot office space they leased.  The claim of a move to smaller offices was all make believe after it was pointed out that that they no longer were working at 34935 SE Douglas St, Suite 210.  In actuality, in June of 2002 they were locked out by their landlord, their phones were turned off for lack of payment and since early June all "work" by Amiga Inc has been done at the homes of those still working for them.  Working being a relative term since they are not being paid, technically most would call them volunteers.
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Well you know I am scottish, so I like sheep alot.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Amiga Auction List Posted
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2003, 05:02:38 PM »
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Hello
Netventures also invest in 16 other companies beside Amiga Inc. If they know about the poor financial situation at Amiga Inc and threat of eviction, I guess they can discontinue the rent and move the Amiga Inc assets to their own office or one of the other related companies. Perhaps NetVentures can help establish a temporary office for Amiga Inc. This will prevent the embarassing auction and preseve the remaining assets

I realize English is probably not your first language, but understand what has really happened.   Last year in June of 2002, Amiga Inc was locked out of their offices after not paying there rent for a substantial amount of time.  This year (in fact yesterday) all of the contents of that office were auctioned off, the fact Netventures (which now owns 50% of the company according to McEwen) did nothing to stop the auction yesterday, and has done nothing to pay the creditors (of which there are many) should not give anyone a warm fuzzy that they are going to save Amiga Inc.
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Well you know I am scottish, so I like sheep alot.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2003, 05:43:02 PM »
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Yes, bad things have happened, but the bad things I've seen have not in any way reflected badly (in my opinion) on the character of people like Fleecy, Ray, Bill McEwen, Gary Peake. They are flawed human beings, just like you and I, but all these guys have *earned* my trust by their actions and dealings with me.

I am continually amazed by people posting this, Bill McEwen went to Amiwest last year, after being locked out of his offices, after not paying his employees, and told everyone that everything was just great at Amiga Inc, that the rumors about lockouts, layoffs and debts were all drivel spread by anti amigans.  Months after the lockout Fleecy was still saying it didnt happen, and that it was all a lie spread by H&P (remember before Genesei was the great Evil spreading lies, that position was held by H&P).    I don't know how people continually lying to you about their company cannot reflect badly on their character.   Doesnt it bother you that the great T-Shirt/Coupon scam didnt exist until they lost their office??

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They aren't paying their employees, Ray and "Fleecy" have constantly twisted that fact.

I have not read every posting these guys have made, but my impression is that their answers have been along the lines of "that's none of your business" in regards to questions like that. I agree with them. You may not, but that's ok.

Actually they have pretty much confessed to not being paid now, and frankly it is Bolten's business, since Mr McEwen said they were not even paying salaries to his employees as one of the reasons they couldnt pay Bolten his settlement.   If McEwen is lying about paying Fleecy, Ray etc, thats information the creditors have the right to know.  If they didn't want to share that info, they shouldnt have defaulted on the judgements against them.

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They terminated the medical insurance of employees without even telling them about it.


I take it you are referring to Bolton's case? I'm not convinced that all the facts on this issue are out yet, but that's just one thing we'll have to wait and see about. To me, this is a minor issue compared ot other issues I am aware of, so it doesn't factor in to my "trust factor".

If Bill McEwen had done this in my state, he would be the girlfriend of big guy named Bubba right now, its a felony here, so I'm not sure how you can say committing what many states consider a felony against a number of your employees (Bolten is not the only person this was done to, hes not even the only employee thats sued them about it) doesnt affect your trust of the person.  

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They were evicted almost A YEAR AGO and continually lied about it. They continue to twist the undeniable facts even today.

Again, there is more to the story, and because Amiga has chosen not to reveal that side of the story, what little they have said has been very easy to take out of context and assume it is their entire "defence" regarding the issue.

Since they moved into their offices in March of 2000, the owner of the property had to take them to court twice over them not paying their rent (thats in the public record, check it out).   The first case they show up with a big check and got out of it, for the last year they have been locked out and havent been able to come up with the amount owed to the lender, despite scamming 65K from the Amiga Community during that same time, yesterday all of Amiga Incs possessions at the office were auctioned off to pay down that debt.    There isnt alot of other stuff to tell, its like it is at your house, if you dont pay the rent/mortgage, eventually they kick you out and sell your stuff.
       -Tig
Well you know I am scottish, so I like sheep alot.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2003, 10:41:08 PM »
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Would you be able to provide the following to back up your claims and interpretation? 1. A timeline of when the lockout happened and when the various comments you referring to were made? 2. Exact quotes of the comments made, and/or links to where those comments were made?


A small part of the master timeline:

June 6,   2002 - The Lockout
June 23, 2002 - Buy a coupon get a T-Shirt, get a chance at winning a free Amiga One (See Executive Update)
July 1, 2002 - CAM Scam begins (see the updated Executive Update)
July 27-28 - Amiwest 2002 - The threats, the giveaways, the promises, listen to the Audio, read the transcript, its pretty fascinating
Oct 2002 - The phones, in a thread even you were involved in Gabriel, we are told the phone situation is a non issue as is the offices, its all made up.  Heres just one of the threads:

Amiga Inc Phones Gone

Dont you find it interesting that 8 months after this thread started, the same people are still saying they know from their secret lists, that this is all a non-issue???   Why do the people on the secret lists not know about the phones going away, the office going away, the auction, the lawsuits, etc before those of us not on the list, yet believe the "secret" reasons this stuff happens that they are not allowed to share thats posted after it becomes public knowledge the event occurred.    Just FYI, I'm willing to wager that I post about the Amiga Inc bankruptcy before the secret list tells you it happens, they will have a reason for that, they'll say its a legal issue or something (not true) but the info will be on ann, amiga.org and moobunny before its shows on your NDA list.   Something a professionally run company would not do.
     -Tig
Well you know I am scottish, so I like sheep alot.
     -Fleecy Moss, Gateway 2000 show
 

Offline Tigger

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Re: Auction List Posted
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2003, 04:52:06 PM »
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@Tigger,

Thanks. Looking into it a bit more. Didn't see anything in the thread you linked or the other thread where I posted, where Amiga gave any reply to the lock-out "rumours" (which turned out to be fact).

There are several threads on the subject there, though frankly they talk about it on the Amiwest stuff as well.

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Haven't yet had a chance to listen to the Amiwest speeches or read the transcript. I also forget where they are - could you provide a link?

Sure

Amiwest Transcripts

Or use Google and find an alternate site.
      -Tig
Well you know I am scottish, so I like sheep alot.
     -Fleecy Moss, Gateway 2000 show