**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Amiga DB23 Video Output (Limitations) * Danger to Possibly Damage Amiga *

I finally found a good specification on what I saw reference to in researching this topic.
There are some specific limitations on the DB23 Video Port PINS of the Amiga.
Hooking up Drivers, or  Mis-Wiring/Shorting,  could cause irreparable damage.

This diagram is from the link below shows many of the Amiga Ports Pinouts.
http://www.retrocomputacion.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?31076



So even though a connection might work for a short period of time.  Long term connections could eventually burn out the Amiga Port PIN.

I would even check connections to devices like the GBS8100 Converter board, with a Multi-Meter to check current draw (if connecting any of the current limited pins). ** NEVER DRAW 5V or 12Volt power off Amiga Port **

Also last but not least be Extra Cautious when connecting CRT (high Voltage) monitors.

[wbrejnia]

Make it easy on yourself, get one of these...
was included with every 4000 and 1200 from commodore

I don't get it. What does it solve with having an Indivision.

What is the ADAPTER.... DB23 (RGB) to DB15(VGA) going to do.
Similar to this one http://amigastore.eu/en/207-amiga-rgb-to-vga-monitor-adapter.html

-->You either need a Monitor that will support 15Khz. (not too many LCD's do around. Or a CRT)
--> Or you need to drive 31Khz through Workbench Drivers (Something I haven't explored).

[wbrejnia]

If you have a monitor that syncs to 15KHz then all you need is the C= silver adapter to display standard Amiga screenmodes.

ok. Now I'm clear.
Nothing to do with Indivision.
My HP LCD widescreen does appear to be 15KHz possible.
Planning to build one of these simple adapters, while I wait for the permanent Indivision solution (since I can't use the HP for the Long Run) and have plenty of VGA LCD Displays with proper aspect ratio (but not 15Khz supportable).

[wbrejnia]

It is a good thing you are practicing those soldering skills Wally. Because you are going to HAVE to do something about one capacitor on the A2000 motherboard. Lead solder and a new iron (or just a new bit for your current soldering iron) recommended. Nice big through hole component, is pretty easy job, but do practice enough before you do it.

That's for fitting Indivision ECS. You HAVE to do this to fit the device.

You scare me about the other issues you comment above. I thought the Indivision ECS was just a transparent thing. Just as transparent as the External SCART solution (but a little bit of intrusion. Remove chip/re-mount).
I'll address that in another reply.

As far as Capacitor for Indivision mount. Yes, I am thinking about that. It's one reason I hesitated getting it.

But like the Battery I removed. I don't want to remove the board to be able to properly solder from underneath. All a risk factor.

I'm thinking just clip the capacitor lead in middle. Then Solder a good Copper wire (insulated) to move it over.
Like an Extension cord. Then mount it nicely with Hot Glue, or that new UV Bonding material I got ( Light activated instant Set Plastic "BONDIC" )..

We'll see when it ECS comes.

Oh. and Here is a trick for Freshening, improving a Soldering Iron.
Instead of replacing that tip, or even sanding the tip (which I did in past)
I just take a fresh piece of Thick Copper wire (House wiring type).
Strip insulation, then wrap it like a coiled snake around Soldering Tip.
At end bring it to a point like Iron Tip but firm against tip for pressure point.
Then cut wire with sharp cutter to an angle (Custom cut angle for whatever Soldering job requires).
You can make a pin point tip to solder finest SMB.
Pure Copper transfers heat very efficiently.
 You should tin the end or else solder sticks too much to the wire.
Re-useable, disposable.

[wbrejnia]

AM I HEADING DOWN (AN ENDLESS RATHOLE)?

That's OK? No ECS, and it works with your Agnus chip? Check the version you have, 8372 is unlikely, I think you have earlier OCS Agnus version so check compatible (limited to OCS but works).


Best to check will work OCS Agnus I think. It should do but I never used.



That's probably fine for you, you are looking for a retro machine, and it's not like OCS Amigas never had flicker fixers. They probably had more, by proportion. Maybe you are happier with the chip RAM low.



Upgrading the chip RAM is a much bigger deal maybe, I am unsure of best solution for your current motherboard. Doing that and later Agnus should be option for you, but not really needed - you want a Bridgeboard A2000, stock 1988 or so. Having better compatibility is a stretch goal right now, not the current job.



Anyway, the ROM upgrade is basically two extra connections for the extra 2 pins on the ROM chip. Which has a socket, makes it a lot easier fix. Again, that's an option for you, but not urgent.

Pat, and others,

I don't have the broad knowledge of Everything Amiga like you guys do.

I'm starting to worry about these possible future issues.

----> Really happy about getting the GVP SCSI Hard Drive. That appears to be a must. (Extra memory will be handy too)
 --------> It won't be installed till I have all the pieces (for the Big Put Together). [Waiting for the KEY Component.  The ROM switcher]
(BTW I dug into my Surplus SCSI drives. Plenty. But all SCSI Ultra 3 Drives. So no value)

----> The indivision is a convenience thing (and removes the Amiga Monitor on my tight deskspace). Happy with that if it works.

-----> What's this about ECS Chip? Will I be needing one of these http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ECS-SUPER-DENISE-Chip-CSG-390433-02-8373R4PD-for-Commodore-Amiga-500-2000-3000-/282409731659?hash=item41c0ee864b:g:f38AAOSw~AVYrrOR

->Next thing is the Rev 4 motherboard (limitations I don't understand at all). Hoping it won't be a rockblock of any kind.

->Then my 68000 CPU (Slow). Was Surfing Internet and found this Flappy Bird Game Port that would have impressed my kids (but needs a 86030 to run).
-----> any 68030 Accelerator is way out of my price range (But I have started selling some shelved Fish Tank Equipment on Ebay to fund some more improvements). I can justify spending with PalPal Credits

I probably won't discover my other limitations for a while since I'm barely beyond Workbench 1.2 and Native resolution. Haven't even loaded any OS or applications on the Hard Drive.

Probably best to take one step at a time, and adjust as needed.

If I'm still up to continuing improvements, at end of 2017, mid 2018, or even 2019 there may be Vampires avaible and then things get easy (for everything needed).

That's my thinking, but just hoping for the mid term, I'm ok.

And reason I say that, is I know that I'm REALLY enjoying the Journey of Building (solving puzzle, to a degree) more so than when I get things done.
Unless I find a purpose for the Amiga, Like run my fish tank or house lights etc (Can't see me playing games, word-processing or editing images on the Amiga).

Yes, there is still one other option for this Amiga. The School Computer Lab Donation. Spoke with Teacher and when I done, he wants to see it.
They have an Atari computer of some sort to show during Computer History class. This Amiga will be way better (and I get to visit it for maintenance).

[wbrejnia]

Is there a online book or reference manual that I can read? (to learn about things like ECS, RTG, etc).
 
 Need to understand the big picture of A2000 / OS upgrades possible.

[wbrejnia]

Thanks Mike.

That explains a lot. Agnus chip upgrade sounds easy, if chips are available.

Still not sure what I would need ECS for (The Super Denise Chip). Isn't there a 2nd chip that needs upgrading to make it work (the Agnus)?

And why I want a ROM switcher is currently now I have to manually swtich ROM to Boot Workbench 1.2 VS 1.3, and most of my floppy games crash the amiga in Kickstart 3.1.
---> The main reason is demo purposes (I wish to show WB 1.2 the way it was, and also be able to run WB1.3,..+,+,+)
---> Booting old games off Gotek is another (I invested in Gotek Hxc), plus again (demo).
--------> WHload, just sounds like more work.
 --->Yes, the bridgeboard is another reason, but still not sure (since I haven't tried WB1.3 yet).

Thanks. Love the BIG $$$ sign image. Makes the point clear. I already spend 1/2$ Bucks so far. Willing to spend a bit more if the investment has value [features and $). (Just in case, I do sell down the long run).
(This whole thread started with me planning to sell the Amiga after getting bridgeboard working. Things changed, and I'm enjoying every moment. Worth every penny and time spent so far.)

[wbrejnia]

Perfect.  That answers everything at this point.
 Thanks.

[wbrejnia]

Manufacturer's Wiki for product here. Links to product manual (German French only) at bottom.

http://wiki.icomp.de/wiki/Indivision_ECS

Capacitor to move is C225, near Paula chip. Your plan sounds good, for moving it.

Indivision  ECS  will work even on A1000 with skinny Agnus even, just no ECS modes  without fat ECS Agnus. So should be good when fitted to your A2000, you get all  current screen modes, even interlaced, displayed properly on ANY 15 pin  monitior. No software required, it should just do it.

 Good idea  to fit 15 pin SVGA backplate to machine (backplate with right sized  hole), for easier connection to SVGA 15 pin monitor.

Thanks for confirming all above.  Sounds like I'm all setup for basic/normal stuff that I want.

So what would I get with a FAT ECS chip.
I see a few really cheap available (8375) which my Rev 4 Board didn't get, but Rev 6 Board did.  Would this bring me closer Rev 6 board without changing the board.

But then main question is, what would I get with the FAT 8375 Agnus chip with ECS?  More resolution, or just the performance improvement (Something might need, when chips not around?)

Or do I risk a Partial Chip upgrade (not upgrading Denise) on a Older Rev board (as a incompatibility challenge, I don't want to face).

Another issue I see is I've removed many chips in the past, but not one like the Agnus.  Don't have the extractor tool.  Delicate prying might be possible. Don't know.

[wbrejnia]

According to the "Common floppy disk formats, logical characteristics by platform"-table (scroll roughly 2/3 down til you reach the "IBM PC compatibles[14]"-section in this table), the paramaters for a 5.25" 360K disk are:
..

Thanks Dandy,

Not sure if you caught the recent updates but I solved the Amiga PC Hard drive boot issue with a replacement Seagate RLL controller, so I no longer need the the Gotek Floppy boot option that I was considering.

SO IN GENERAL..... I have everything I need, or everything is on the way to complete my build of a A2000 DemoSystem.  (SCSI-Controlller/HD/Memory, Indivision-For-VGA, SCART-For-HDMI, Kickstart-Switcher, etc).

The fun part is about to begin.

I've decided to not modify the A2000 in any drastic way (ie Rev 4 motherboard changes, or changes to the Amiga Case for the extra control/features I wish to add).

The plan is to hook up everything with tidy modular wiring and I'll be building what I call an Amiga Sidekick Box.   The purpose will be to bring all (wiring/Swtiches-buttons/LCD-displays/ClockBattery, etc) into a nice External Case that will compliment the Amiga, not make it look like a hack (Internally and Externally).

This project is on Temporary hold till all parts arrive.

However once I build the A2000, I do plan on doing a performance comparison on the various Storage Drives I have.  (JUST FOR FUN)

I'll compare I/O Performance:

----> SCSI Drive On Amiga Side
----> RLL Drive on PC Side
----> PC Drive off Amiga Hard file in SCSI Drive (thru BB)
----> Amiga Drive of RLL partition in RLL Drive (Thru BB) [DJmount] [Jdisk]
----> Aread/Awrite and possibly Cross-Dos.
----> And further compare with Lo-Tech ISA/IDE (USB Drive, Flash Drive), and if possible (Floppy disks, Gotek).

[wbrejnia]

MOTHERBOARD REMOVED (For Two Touch ups)

To my surprise the Amigakit order arrived from UK.  I was still waiting for a tracking #.   No Complaints!

Even the SCART converter, ordered locally hasn't arrived.

So to install the Indivision ECS that Cap had to be moved, and my idea of clipping the leads was not possible.  Cap too close to board.

So I took on the challenge of removing the MOBO.
Bit intimidating, but I took all precautions.  Static strap, Grounding, etc.

-> I used Copper De-soldering Braid to remove the CAP properly and have fresh clean solder pads.
-> Got a nice low Profile equivalent capacitor.  (It would have fit upright, but kind of tight, so decided to go sideways)



I still have to test on a few monitors (LCDs)
Looks great so far.

-> I still will test/compare the [SCART-> HDMI converter]  ( But it will go back)

Really happy with the space I'll have on my desk, to continue work with a Flat Screen.

-> And since I had the board out, I improved the battery area with some Gold Stakes I had lying around.  Future hookup to Coin Cell Battery.



I was a bit worried during the whole process that I may damage something.
So when I re-assembled everything and Amiga Powered up with Indivision, it was a sigh of relief.
NEVER WANT TO DO THAT AGAIN (Taking out MOBO, Soldering, etc)!  Not when so much is at Stake (my whole project).

Onward....

[wbrejnia]

NEXT CHALLENGE (Final Amiga 2000 Hardware/Setup & Chassis)

So here is everything the A2000 will contain except the ROM switcher.

I want easy access to everything including to SD Card, Gotek USB/Controls, LED's etc..  

Time to get creative with wiring and I'm thinking some kind of External SideKick Box.



Might be a good time to check on Power Usage, Heat, etc.

I am considering having some control to turn things off that I don't want running all the time.
---> For that I'm thinking some Automated/Switch Logic using the Ardiuno<->MultiRelayPack
---> And some of those Fun Arcade-Type Buttons I have.
---> Some things (ie Gotek Board, LEDs, SDcardReader, Switches,  etc) Mounted (in/on) the Amiga SideKick Box.

[wbrejnia]

What Kickstart ROM do I need for this Amiga 2000?

I am a bit confused about ROMS.

I know I need at least Kickstart 1.3 for my GVP-SCSI drive to Autoboot.

I have:



2x KICKSTART 1.2 (315093-01 ROM), ORIGINAL ROM IN AMIGA2000

1x KICKSTART Version 40.63 (O.S.3.1), which I bought a few years ago on Ebay.
-----> It seems to work with WB1.3, and will work with Amiga 3.1 OS (Not sure if will work with Bridgeboard, but that is what ROM switcher is for)

Do I need a true KICKSTART 1.3 ROM (315093-02)?

[wbrejnia]

Yeah - read it in one of the subsequent postings.
Anyway - you can keep the information just for the record.
Don't know how serious you meant it when you wrote that you possibly want to write a "How To..." - in this case the info might come in handy for people who have to rely on those 5 1/4" floppy disks and desperately need the parameters...

I still might try the 5 1/4" BLANK DISK trial on the PC using Gotek HxC.
But later when I run out of things to do.

I may need that BB-PC GotekHxC Floppy boot option anyway, if I can't get Seagate HD/Lo-Tech Booting with Amiga OS3.1 (it barely works with WB1.2 and a very specific version of Janus)

I still have lots of pieces to put together, both HW to build and then all the many installs of OS.

This next phase of this build is going to take weeks if not months.

I will only post significant progress, or problem for everyone to help me with.

[wbrejnia]

No. Actually, the 3.1 is the best option for the A2000, and it will just work fine with the GVP. Some games might probably fail with the 3.1, but there is potentially a fix for such problems available already.

Perfect. Thanks for confirming.

I will have the ROM switcher and Kickstart 1.2 for OLD games.

I bought that Gotek before I got the GVP-SCSI, so it will be used for Floppy booting of OLD Floppy based Games. (I like it that way, rather than play with WHDload, etc)

Plus I only have a 68000 CPU, and I hear that Quit in WHDLoad doesn't work, without at least a 86020).  So reboots needed anyway.

With Kickstart 3.1/OS31 it will compliment the setup for all other things.

[wbrejnia]

68010. They're like $5 bucks on eBay. But your choice, lol. :lol:

I will eventually.
I was originally worried that some RARE bug might be introduced (which would drive me crazy), but from this write up it appears upgrade to 68010 is 100% harmless. http://www.amigareport.com/ar402/feature1.html

Is this the one I need (just to be sure)  MC68010P10

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MOTOROLA-MC68010P10-CDIP-64-Microcontroller-Microprocessor-Chip-/272601508612?hash=item3f7850eb04:g:J7AAAOSwHMJYDknf

or even cheaper https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MC68010P10/32428831542.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.9.TfBqsq&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_2_10065_10130_10068_10139_10136_10137_10138_10060_10062_10141_10056_10055_10054_10059_10099_129_10103_10102_10096_10148_10052_10053_10050_10107_10142_10051_10143_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10037_10032_10078_10079_10077_10073_10070_10123_10124,searchweb201603_6,afswitch_1,ppcSwitch_5,single_sort_0_default&btsid=023d2a15-0fad-4c79-94dc-0925b14d28a7&algo_expid=281f2954-64ec-432d-a240-10f8e71b72c0-1&algo_pvid=281f2954-64ec-432d-a240-10f8e71b72c0