**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

I think this thread may have useful information for you.
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395

This thread is amazing.    Links within are even better.
There is a link to technical manual with all the RAW keycodes, especially for my missing "\"

I'll need days to read this stuff.

[wbrejnia]

All Test results.  For ISA Storage Solutions for 8088 Bridgeboard PC.

All I wanted was a 8088 PC that would boot without the 5.25" Floppy.

The hard file solution works for a C: drive, but having to use a 3.5" Amiga Side Floppy isn't acceptable, since for it to work, I have to remove the WD controller and RLL Drive.
I did think of stripping down a Workbench disk with small C: HardFile, and putting it into Gotek for  boot.  But what value is a few byte for a C: drive.

I've left this with Lo-tech support, begging James Pearce for some debugging tools, or patch ROM on adapter to get it working.

Here is the summary of results, after Syba Compact Flash Adapter also failed to work on Lo-tech ISA/IDE Adapter.



Considering the money I spend and the time wasted I would have been better off overpaying for a Amiga Side Hard drive solution.
Then I could use the Hard File Solution for a C: drive, and sell the WD/RLL drive.

If I can get the Jdisk/Jlink solution working and a Amiga side Link C: File, that would allow me to have the RLL drive as a D: Drive
That would be acceptable and my next real big effort.  I did try dos 3.3 to see if RLL would boot.  No luck

Now I need a break.  Taking family away for a weekend getaway, and will be nice to get away from the Amiga and my RETRO LAB.

[wbrejnia]

Here is a picture of the Bottom of that Mystery box.

I think this is what is is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_Technologies

Interesting.  The Wiki talks about McDonald Douglas the Air Craft company that built DC10 airplanes.
My dad worked in Tool and Die for 40 years at Mc Donald Douglas Canada (wing Division, Tool and Die)
Maybe he got it from some scrap area for a Trailer stool.
There might be a 8088 and few spare roms in there, and the 5.25" Drive, may be better than my 360K in the Amiga




Have a nice weekend.

Wally

[wbrejnia]

Yes it has 1990's design and it is modular on the front just as like japanese engineers preferred design for electronics. It recalls me of Sharp X68000 but it is not Sharp X68000.

Maybe it is some graphic station for Television Titling, and GFXs like Truevision Targa, or maybe it is some mainframe for engineering CAD in automobile or aereonautics industry just as you suspected.

Can you made some close photos of the rear to check if there were engraved names of the connector ports?

Have you tried to post these photos on a Retrocomputing forum? You may have better chance of find what it is.

Here you go.
I might post a photo of this on Vintage Computer Forum http://www.vcfed.org
That is where I'm starting a thread for the ISA/IDE adapter troubleshooting.

The Vintage computer forum is having a big conference in March.
Maybe this computer thing is special and I can be guest speaker

Here is the photo. I better put it in the garage
To take photo I had to clear off a big spider.
My wife is terrified of any spider.

[wbrejnia]

I am just online reading Bridgeboard Manual from site http://www.traumstation.ch that was linked some comments above.

At Chapter 4 pag 19 (and forward) manual stated how to make a PC Hard Drive recognized by Bridgeboard.

You must enter Bridgeboard Setup Utility with ConTRoL+ALT+ESCape three fingers keys sequence, and it has to be run at full PC screen (that can be invoked with Right Amiga + F)
...
[/url]



[EDIT]


Also I find an important parameter from Bridgeboard Utility Screen called BIOS SHADOW.

You may find instructions at Chapter 5 page 38 of the manual.

When enabled it loads PC BIOS in Upper Memory to make it act with more speed. Check if it is enabled/disabled.

It may be the cause your Janus BIOS sometimes is not loaded in memory.

Raffaelle,

Oh, I wish what you say worked.  That would be perfect.
I tried the CTRL-ALT-ESC many time before.
IT DOESN'T do anything.
Maybe part of my Keyboard map problem.  But I think not since CTRL works, ESC works and ALT works.

I think that is for higher Bridgeboards 386/486 that were made with newer BIOS.  That is why I keep thinking upgrading my Rev 3.5 Bios.

I HAVE A 8086 Bridgeboard, not the 386/486.

** IF SOMEONE HAS A 8088 Bridgeboard and they try CTRL-ALT-ESC at BIOS Boot **


But I think the boot loader in BIOS is pointing to my C: drive.

It must be the Boot block on the C: drive
It's won't boot (last time I tried in 486)

Plus it does try based on LED behavior to Boot from my RLL drive.

I disconnected the 5.25" floppy and look what happens



-The drive is (FORMATED /S)
-The drive is Parition (ACTIVE)
-The drive is a perfect C: drive, zero Errors.  Good file system.

What could BIOS want more for C: drive boot.  OLD Fat Boot Block?

That ADISK program does install a BOOT Block or something when it can't read Boot block.  Maybe I should Pull cable from RLL during ADISK.  Then put it back for the ADISK boot Block.

Maybe I should put RLL drive into 486, and play till I get it to boot (DOS version whatever)

Maybe install a mini Boot Loader on the Boot Sector of the Hard Drive???

Any more idea's

[wbrejnia]

[[[ IGNORE THIS POST ]]] I formatted the 5.25" floppy wrong format size, and it wasn't readable by Amiga PC 640K drive


I just replicated the behavior above.

- I booted my 486 off a original DOS 3.3 floppy
- I formatted a 5.25" floppy with "format"   (DOS 3.3 version)
- I did a "sys.com b:" of the 5.25" floppy

I put the 5.25" floppy in to the Amiga Bridgeboard PC (8086)

- I tried to boot the Amiga PC (with the Phoenix BIOS)
- Same message "Boot disk Failure.  Type any Key to retry"

AmigaPC (Pheonix BIOS) won't boot off the 5.25" floppy.  But the 486 will off the 3.5" DOS 3.3 original Disk. It booted with a DOS 6.2 Floppy.

THE AMIGA Pheonix BIOS wants something special.
Something in the MBR bootblock

I will play with Ramish Partition Manager to fix the B: disk, then do the same to the RLL drive.

Somehow clone the MBR from the Original DOS 3.3 Floppy.

[wbrejnia]

[BIG CLUE from Ramish Parition Manager]


Look at this.
I ran an IDE controller check using Ramish.



Maybe Ramish doesn't get things right.

But this shows there is no Primary or Secondary Controller or drive attached.
Yet the command is being run on PARTITION D: of the RLL Drive.

I'll have to put in the ISA/IDE Adapter, and see what Ramish picks up with same command.

[wbrejnia]

Hang on.

"Part -i" is an IDE check.
The WD controller and RLL drive is NOT IDE.  It's ST-506

But the ISA/IDE Adapter is IDE.

So using "part -i" with the Adapter in 486 and 8086 will be a good comparison test.

[wbrejnia]

I went to AmigaResource.cx and I checked for Manual PDF file. Manual is common to Bridgeboard 8088 and 80286, and yes!
....

If AUTOboot get's diasabled on PC side (when Hard disk is installed) then I've FINISHED (PC side).
 It will never work the way I want it to on the DOS Side without a 5.25" floppy.
(I thought AutoBoot was only for Hard File across to Amiga)
(Why would they disable booting PC C: drive, and keep having to have a floppy, when you install a Hard Drive on ISA Bus).  
I THINK AutoBoot is only For 8088PC booting form AMIGA Hard file. (99% sure)

( I can see special behavior from testing.  If I setup Hard file in Workbench on DF2: and put in WD controller Boots from DF2: Hard file)
( If I used same workbench, but put in Hard Drive, it ignores Hard File)
( If I remove everything related to hard File, and remove df2:HardFile.  the Aboot.ctrl file left.  It complains big time it want's Hard file back,
If Put back HD Controller (same), but if I put back HD Controller(and cable up Hard Drive).  Autoboot HARDFILE errors go away, (df2L file missing), doesn't care because AutoBoot from AMIGA is no longer required.)
 
AUtoBoot does not disable the 8088 PC from booting (I hope)  I see it trying to boot.
After all (Boot from (A:  floppy boot is a PC AutoBoot.  Correct??) (C: drive is just another drive);  STANDARD BIOS/DOS/Bootblock technology

 (Janus talks to C: drive before A: drive lights up.  Then it comes back on C: drive a 2nd time).    
** that is different from normal PC **
** Normal PC doesn't try C: drive if A: is there **
** But this Hard drive check is JANUS checking to see if there is an AMIGA Parition there.  For DJmount to use, for Amiga to Boot from PC DISK Parition *

I am going to continue my efforts.  
The version of Dos 3.3 I have  (fdisk and even format is totally different.  Maybe MBR it creates is different for the OLD BIOS and needs to match)
[ What is interesting is Above DOS 3.3 you can run "fdisk /mbr" to create MBR on first Disk.  In DOS 3.3 that is not there.  Must be done only by "fdisk" interactive primary DOS parition Creation. ** FIRST TIME ONLY **  ]

I will do a video of the Boot and LED Pulses. and Post on YouTube.
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So what is left is to get PC Drive exposed to Amiga Side.
That is not working.  After Running Janus, I try to do a "Format DRIVE JH0: NAME Cdisk ffs", and it says "No handler"

Why are all these bit and pieces are not working?  Puzzles me.
Today I looked at my original Workbench disk that use to work.
The size of JANUS.library is much smaller.  Must have been an old version (but worked).  The disk is so corrupt I can't do much except look thru filesystem.

I am not starting any more big efforts, till after the weekend.
Must stay organized and do things from start to finish in one attempt.

[wbrejnia]

Because you must have reserved enough Free Space on Hard Disk when formatting PC Hard Disk. If PC Hard Disk is of 40 MB, you must format PC Side with FDisk with a maximum of 307 Cylinders to obtain 20 Meg on PC side and then use first ADISK to create Amiga Partition.

Once You made a real Amiga Partition with ADisk, you must pass to the Amiga Side and you must invoke into a CLI window the DJMOUNT command, and only at this point you can format drive with command Format Drive JH0:

My RLL Hard disk is 32Mb.
Original setup was DOS(11Mb) Amiga(21).
** INteresting that is was over 20 like you say **

Now my setup is DOS(20) Amiga(12).
Maybe that is the problem.

WHY DID they make JANUS so "Quiet".
No errors, no logs, when things are not right.
"The Handler message" says not much, or why.
I guess ROM space was precious back then.  Same for Floppy space.
Time have changed.

Ok I will increase Amiga Parittion to (21Mb) like before.

[wbrejnia]

On EAB-Abime site, at page 15 of discussion of Toni Wilen with people trying to make functioning XT-IDE Hard Disk (Virtual or not) with Bridgeboard Emluation on WinUAE.

They talk about XT-IDE Universal custom boot Rom to make hard disks being visible on  Bridgeboards...

Could it be that it will works on a solid hardware bridgeboard too?

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=76395&page=15

I need a customer ROM for my setup.
Will check that Forum out.  Exactly what I was looking for.

[wbrejnia]

Yes, I will run DJMOUNT.
My "Startup sequence has print statements to say what is running and what not (ie DJmount, pcdisk).

Now that I know everything needed, all those OLD many tries (i may have missed something).

*** ONE INTERESTING behavior I noticed and mentioned before **
*** It's what actually DESTROYED my MBR when drive was not clean **
If you cannot read MBR, or after a LL Format when MBR is wiped
If you run ADISK before FDISK, it "Instantly says: No MBR and creates a MBR and 1 parition across whole disk. (No Choice to stop it, except power off)

I have Ranish "part -s".  And I can save a copy of MBR.  Delete all partitions.
Run ADISK.  Then try the FORMAT from Amiga side.

If it still doesn't fix things.  I can use Ramish " part -l: " and bring back old Paritions with my files I copied in,  back

[wbrejnia]

I tried the IDEA of making Amiga Parition on C: drive 32 mb   (>20mb).

Nope it didn't change anything. Same as before.

I do notice that if  you type "assign" command, before running DJmount, there is no "JH0", but after "DJmount" there is a "JH0"

But why is JH0 handler not good for the Format. (it is assigned, and  is in SYS:devs/JDisk.device)

What is "Handler"?  Is there some file that need to define the handler for DISK (SECTORS, HEAD, etc) "A MOUNT LIST ENTRY for JH0:" i have none
Just like what is needed for a AMIGA Hard disk. (but nothing in the manual says PC disk needs a mount list).  

I tried to create a MOUNTLIST for JH0: but not described.  Plus the MOUNT list mounts the devices.  And my screenshot show JH0: assigned & mounted after DJmount
The only thing that is close is a mwm.device which is a CROSSDOS mount. (which I don't use)

Or does Janus get that thru the Bridgeboard to the Controller on PC side....(I think so, thus the JH0: showing in assign command)
the Handler is auto loaded, but not available (in my case. Something missing). [I remember looking at my MOUNT list on Original working FLoppy.  Noting inside except examples.  And PC mountlists go into DOSDrivers Drawer.

(That Ramish tool is nice.  I loaded back MBR after destroying all 3 partitions.  All is back. )




Thanks for the other reading material for Hotel room at night.
I am almost finished with Amiga and starting mini vacation with family.

[wbrejnia]

I did some more reading.

the DOSdrivers is a new concept in AmigaOS.

No needed in workbench 1.2

I would have to move to WB1.3, and to do that put back Kickstart1.3

Maybe later..... (I was working with WB/Kickstart 1.3 a while ago)

[wbrejnia]

LET'S TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT (IF C: Drive Won't Boot MS DOS)

I've been thinking.  When I was reading MBR stuff and bootblocks, the BIOS just load things in chains.

It doesn't have to be DOS, it doesn't have to be Linux.
Just something that is compiled for the processor.

All the Boot code needs is access to the Standard Out Character Screen and possibly keyboard.

If the BIOS truly is trying to boot from Bootblock then unless the Commodore/Phoenix BIOS had something special for DOS, it should boot anything.  Even the manual say's that partitions can be another OS other than DOS.

So let's try this (My favourite Program) RANISH!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQGWriEx2ik

I'll try that when I get back Sunday.

[wbrejnia]

I'm BACK.  With a TESTING PLAN.

So I spend last couple of days away from the Amiga.  Was a nice break.

( I did catch up reading some of your posts. Thank you for providing.  I like the one that described that JANUS loads before ISA/Adapters and how they are read into memory order)

I did daydream about next steps (Especially during the countdown on this attraction https://www.greatwolf.com/niagara/waterpark-attractions/swim-splash-slide/wolf-tail

and have formulated a good plan.

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A) The Lo-Tech ISA/IDE Adapter problem on the Bridgeboard has been submitted to another FORUM.   Added to thread  on The Vintage Computer Forum, and James the developer of the Lo-Tech Adapter is there with me.  Hoping to get support from the Universal BIOS X-IDE guru's.  This appears to be a Adapter Initialization problem.

Here is the POST on Vintage Computer Forum:
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?17986-XTIDE-Universal-BIOS/page35

The only thing I'll be doing is some comparison test (BB/486) using RANISH (part -i) command.  It shows IDE drives and memory Location/Interrupt.

But this will be for other forum post.

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B) Tackle the Boot C: Drive problem.

For the C: Drive (WD Controller/RLL HD) boot issue. I am moving things to the 486.

0)  If I remember correctly the RLL Drive Combo, never booted in the 486, so it must be something in common. (Something with the Boot Image or Drive itself)

1a ) Plan is to look into the Boot Image (Using Disk Edit, down to the actual Boot Block)
1b ) I will also look into the Image of the bootable C: drive (using the HARD File on DF2:floppy via Amiga ABoot.init Boot method THAT WORKS).  
  ** Is there anything different about the Partition, Bootblock, etc **

2a) I will try and FIRST get the RANISH boot selector program working on the 486 (WITH THE MAXTOR IDE Drive [MOtherboard BIOS driven] & [NO BIOS using Lotech)
** This worked both was using Standard DOS 6.2

2b) If I can get RANISH boot working on 486/Maxtor, then I'll try the same using RLL Drive

I believe above should either confirm things won't Ever Work (a dead end), or maybe with luck get some things working.

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If none of the above works, all I will be left with is to test further trying to get Jdisk/Jlink/Aread/Awrite working.