**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

ACTIVE@ Disk Image for DOS looks promising. (but probably won't work for the AmigaDOS image)

http://disk-image.net/document_dos.htm

But it's good enough to get the RAW Surface image of the MFM drive.

Then I'll need a similar program for the AMIGA (any out there?)

[wbrejnia]

Disk imaging software

See if you can get another hdd running side by side to save the image too.

Darkage, Thanks for everything in above post.  I always go back on these posts to look for gold nuggets.
(Brutman's look interesting since it tried multiple-re-read on bad data)

But you are thinking the same things I am (why do all these floppy copy stuff).  
If I can get a 2nd Hard disk on the AMIGA PC, that changes everything (SIDE-BY-SIDE HD's ).

The KEY is that Low-Tech-ISA-IDE adapter.  It just entered US customs and is on the way.  
That will hopefully allow me (to use my IDE drive) in the AMIGA PC-ISA slot.
 
(** I have no way to put the MFM-Controller into anywhere else  **)
 But I just found this, there is a way [disable IDE in bios] (but again I have no Floppy to boot from) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-10200.html


The big question is, can a PC XT have two HARD DRIVE CONTROLLERS?

It didn't allow me to do that in the 486AT, but maybe that is because the HD Controller in there is a 16Bit, and the WD-MFM-HD controller is 8 bit.

Keeping my fingers crossed on the ISA-IDE adapter.

If someone can answer (If two HD controllers can go into an XT) then I should stop the sloppy-floppy work, and wait for the ISA-IDE Adapter.

[wbrejnia]

Discussion about imaging software - http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?36239-Disk-imaging-software-for-DOS

Hillarious

The guy had an MFM Drive like me, and there are folks that were offering to get the data off it ($free) , and send him a CD with a copy of the DATA (if he let them keep the MFM Drive).

Looks like MFM drives are hard to find and valuable (even back in 2013).  Thus why you found the $MFM$ drive for a hefty price.

I'm holding on to mine  For now.
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IF I HAVEN't Posted this before YOU GO TO CLICK on this EBay Sale
This would solve my 486-AT 2x (HD Controller Conflict Problem) by putting in an 8-BIT-ISA-Floppy-Controller in to (BOOT DOS floppy)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/MicroSolutions-CompatiCard-I-PC-XT-8-bit-ISA-Floppy-Controller-VINTAGE-1987-/232222790211?hash=item36118e9243:g:xxcAAOSwbsBXjBbs

Just a few pennies.  10,229,989 pennies that is
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[wbrejnia]

Im pretty sure the marketing spill for the ISA XT CF card you got, mentions that it can co-exist with MFM/RLL controller cards.    It has a large selection of different addresses for this purpose.

Thanks for pointing that out.  I remember reading it in my Super-Rookie stage and didn't have a clue what that meant.  Now I do.

I have to thank Pat to suggesting the ISA-IDE-Adapter, it might prove more useful than originally planned.

I you suggested the Gotek drive.  Well I found one here locally for a good price and it should arrive any day. Beige to match the A2000 Case.  Flashed and ready for the Amiga.

It will be fun to SUPER PIMP this amiga.

The Thread/YouTube would have a interesting subject:

[Classic Amiga2000 - w Amiga Monitor - Mouse - Keyboard] [8088 Bridge board XT-PC - 512k, Math Co-Processor, BB - 5.25" Floppy] [8bit RS232 Serial Card ]  [ Lo-Tech 8bit ISA-IDE-Adpater <-> 60GB IDE Drive ] [WD1002-27x-8Bit-HD-Controler <-> 32 MB - MFM Octagon 320 Hard Drive] [Amiga 1010 3.5" External-Floppy] and a  [GOTEK Floppy Emulator]

did I miss anything?

Might be a good subject for a Ebay Auction....(but better to sell the MFM-drive/Controller separately)

[wbrejnia]

MFM Partition Information Restored [Using correct sequence of steps & some Luck]

This is hard to explain, but I'll try my best.

(* I am NO EXPERT on filesystems/disks by any means *)

I experimented on a 2nd spare system (creating Dos and Amiga Partitions, destroying them, and restoring successfully),
then hacked multiple times as below on the MFM disk (corrupted with read errors) once I had confidence I could get an Partial Disk Image copy of the HD Data.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Basically my Eye's got Blurry and my Brain got cloudy trying to figure out everything about MBR's, Filesystems and many tools like Norton, etc..

I knew my MFM Hard drive had two partitions (DOS & AMIGA) from that Lucky 1 time it picked up (via ADISK).  
So I also had the Start/End sectors and Size of each Parition.
 I also had the Physical Characteristics of my Hard drive.

I kind of understand DOS Filesystem, but was concerned that AMIGAdos was different, so this helped http://lclevy.free.fr/adflib/adf_info.html#p6

AmigaDOS HardDIsk filesystem is A RIGID DISK BLOCK File system like FAT-16 is to DOS.  (Amiga Floppies are different)

What Appears to be theory (since I never found it), is that the ASCII characters "RDSK" (capital)are in the first 4 bytes of the Partition.

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What I did to restore the MFM drives patrition tables entries could have been possibly done with Norton or other tools, but I got tired
and took a chance....going past that "ADISK" screen that I feared...
(I always rebooted the Amiga PC "Not hitting any key to proceed.
[which is what you should always do to prevent a MBR overwrite on the HD]


** THIS BELOW is not a recommendation to anyone trying to restore a partition and get their Filesystem back.
This just happen to work for me since my Filesystem is corrupted and only chance of getting data is from a Physical Disk Image SCAN Copy **


The above steps worked (partitions were in place).  Reboot put things back to a corrupted disk thus not a readable MBR.

Thus.., I  learned my Filesystem is corrupt (but data there) since DOS still would not load the MBR and Partitions (fdisk would not pick up partition, adisk would be a hit and miss).  Norton DiskEditor could see data.

I did that risky step since I knew I could SCAN the Physical Disk to get contents, and from Practice I learned that Changing Partition tables doesn't destroy data, or their structure

(ie You can change Partitions (Manually), loose File sytem, change Partitions back, and filesystem comes back), basically what Norton DISKTOOL Rescue disk does.

SO my next step, is copy off the DISK IMAGE (see What I can recover [files, or raw ASCII text] using a FASTER BETTER COMPUTER)

And then LOW LEVEL FORMAT THE MFM DRIVE (see what happens, ie Bad Sectors, Re-Parition, Format and Install DOS / Workbench).

If 2nd Partition Image (AmigaDos) Copy is good, I will attempt to copy back on MFM Drive after Low Level Format (Another option is another drive, if the MFM drive continue to get errors (after low level Format) DUE to age).

[wbrejnia]

Found the Official Corporate "Active @ Disk Image" Site with Freeware version 7.0.4.

http://www.disk-image.com/download.htm

I grabbed a copy before Software like this becomes hard to come by.

I'm actually in the process downloading/installing all kinds of tools (in the Play-PC Hard Drive)

"File Recovery Image Scanner"
"A Hex/ASCII Viewer/Editor"
"Image Maker"
"Norton Disk Doctor Suite"
"Ranish Partition Manager"
"GPart DOS Version"
"...etc"

I thinking if making this Amiga/ PC a really nice Data Recovery LAB. (Just for fun).

I'm building up the IDE Hard Disk with a DOS6.2 Partition, that I'll be able to Pop Into the Amiga/PC with the ISA/IDE adapter and Amiga PC should just boot up ready with everything in place.

Much faster than doing the installs thru the 8088 Bridge board PC.

My Doomsday clock is ticking on making the AmigaPC boot off a Hard Drive (setup).
The 5.25" disks are starting to fail.  A few won't even re-format anymore.
Currently without a 5.25" DOS boot disk the Amiga PC can't boot.

I bet my decades old 3.5" Amiga PC disk are the same.
Some of the games I have are not available for download (C) .
Plus some of the Classic Floppy Based ADF games, can't run of OS/HD (maybe there is a way).
Thus the justification for the Gotek Drive.

[wbrejnia]

Great effort wbrejnia. I've never worked with a bridge board, but back in the day I saved data data  from hundreds of MFM and RLL drives using spinrite. If you can talk to the HD and run this program, it's your best bet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite

Plaz

Thanks.  I was reading up on it, but thought it was windows. Will look again, and will add to my tookbox.

[wbrejnia]

For the moment, getting the data off of YOUR floppies and hard disk is the priority. After that, you can sit back and consider your next move.

Yes, I made backups of all important stuff.  Onto Hard drive, and USB.
Even started copying good DOS stuff off the 486 my friend lent me (he want's it back at the end)

Also made duplicates of every important (ADF) Floppy. Some labelled "DO NOT USE" and put away.  Like Original Amiga Install disks, WB1.2, etc

But this just arrived today from the Local Seller.  THE GOTEK



Ad was all ready to pop into Amiga.  Came with 4 screws, and a jumper.

The USB stick was included and has one ADF file on it.

I never thought about the GOTEK much.  Thought it was a READ ONLY device to play games (and you write to USB via another download computer).  

But now I'm thinking, maybe you can write to it too, and it write to USB.
That could be useful for now.  
Till I get the IDE drive in (Keeping fingers crossed the BB works, since Awrite,Aread didnt work)
And I wonder if the "Awrite,Aread" is block till a Hard Drive appears on the BB PC Side.
I read that "AUTOBOOT" is automatiically disabled on Bridgbeboard, if a Hard Drive is detected on Amiga Side.

NO MANUAL, but I guess I'll find plenty out there.
Not putting in till I know what exactly to do (Don't want to connect the power or cable wrong and blow it up, or A2000 Floppy connector)

[wbrejnia]

Yes, if you had access to SATA, IDE, SCSI, and MFM/RLL controllers, BB Amiga would indeed be a very handy tool for accessing data on any old hard drives. With a Mac emulator added and a Mac floppy drive too if you wanted a "complete" solution.

Pat, I'm not planning of starting some kind of Data Recovery business.
Just for fun and this project.

But going thru my boxes of disk I did find some good stuff.
Two sets of ORIGINAL 3.5" Windows 3.11 Install disks.  I'm officially licensed now.
I used it to install W311 on one partition of the Play PC.  Foundation is DOS 6.2.

Everything works for Win3.11 but the PS2 mouse, that same mouse works on same computer when I run Win95 (so drivers, or motherboard compatibility/BIOS issue).  Pulled off a mouse driver from that 486, it didn't work.  

Not important.

 I got to do the MFM DISK IMAGE BACKUP and am waiting for the ISA/IDE Adapter, so I can dump (one FULL COMPLETE IMAGE) onto IDE drive, instead of split up onto multiple floppies.

[wbrejnia]

Thanks.  I was reading up on it, but thought it was windows. Will look again, and will add to my tookbox.

Found a site with lots of DOS DISK UTILITIES.

http://ibm-pc.org/utilities/hdd/hdd.htm

 (Spinrite has gone windows,many gens ago,  and no longer has any old legacy DOS stuff,  I'd even pay for a DOS version if it saved me time doing manually)

I'm getting a bit sensitive for virus, tojans, etc  (Dont' want all my efforts ruined with one download, and have to start again from copies)

So I have a 2nd IDE drive, that is a clone of my PlayPC.  I install things on that Clone first.
Yeah, I have to Swap Ribbon cable and reboot, but better than losing or corrupting work.

If I have time, I'm thinking of looking into a Dual Boot Loader.  Never played with stuff like this before.

[wbrejnia]

[ Productivity issue with PLAY PC [DOS, Windows3.1, and XP]

I'm chugging along with the Multi-Purpose Play PC setup.  It does the job.

But I'm doing all these download/transfer via Floppy since it's DOS and Win3.1.

I wish I could at least have USB like when I boot the PLAY PC with WinXP.

I work like this
[DESKTOP[PC] for Download onto USB]
[Read USB in Play PC(XP), Copy to Floppy]
[Reboot PLAY PC-1(DOS), and copy Floppy to Hard Drive, install, Try SW for no Virus/trojan/fake]
[Reboot PLAY PC-2(DOS), and install final tool for future use]
[Sometimes another Transfer to 5.25" Floppy, to bring to Amiga PC]

I guess there are no tools to get the USB port working on that PC when it's DOS or Win3.1 (might not be supported).

Was thinking of a FTP server on PLAY PC (in DOS) so I could network transfer from my desktop. But again DOS drivers for the Ethernet Port on the Motherboard.  And FTP server....

May not be worth the effort.  Most DOS tools fit into a floppy or two.

[wbrejnia]

FUNNY on GOOGLE Searches Recently

This Thread has covers so unique/not common these days topics that some of my recent searches on google like "MFM drive" or other stuff, google brings up this thread near the top.

All good clean stuff happening here

[wbrejnia]

** LAST DOS TOOL I need FOUND ( HEX ASCII Editor - HexIt ) **

http://mklasson.com/hexit.php

[wbrejnia]

DISK Tools [ Trials - Summary ]

So I've had the most tedious computer experience of my life.

I'm mean I love building computers, and trying software, but not this way.

I downloaded and tried every DOS tool I could find that appeared remotely useful.

Obviously the big names like Spinrite, Disk Image, Ranish & Norton Disk Doctor were first trials, but I tried a few others too.

The painful and time consuming part was the downloading, media transfers, testing on one computer, another ,etc

At the end it had to be a DOS tool that would work on my Bridgeboard 8088 DOS machine, and also usable to experiment on the 486 and other PC's I had.

I ran into many issues.  Memory limitations, Motherboard BIO issues, DiskCache, DoubleSpace,  even graphics limitation on the 8088 PC and the other computer I was using.  

I may have more options when the ISA/ESA adapter arrives, but I highly doubt I'll get that working in the 486AT host without a Floppy Controller.

I am planning for the worst case scenario that the RLL Drive will only be usable in my Amiga/Bridgeboard/8088 PC with a 720K 3.5" flopppy.  
Having a working ISA/ESA adapater with IDE drive will just lessens the number of steps and speed things up.

The end result is I'll have a complete image of my Hard Drive (whatever is readable), and then I can do many things, like Low Level Format the RLL Drive, etc, etc


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I'm no expert, but I learned a lot.  If you are reading this to attept these steps, use this information at your own risk, and practice first on another computer and disk.

SO NORTON (disk edit) is the only tool that will work on the Amiga 8088 PC.
And it can do it all, including the next phase which will be a possible restoration back on the re-formatted RLL drive.

Here is how.



(A)  Even though the Logic disk is not readable, you selection  the PHYSICAL did OBJECT OPTION in Diskedit to view the Hard Disk.

(B) With the Object Navigator, you can jump to any location on the Hard disk.  Important locations are the MBR's of the Partitions, if there is more than one.  

(C) To prepare a limited dump (depending on what media size you have) you can select a starting point and # of sectors to dump

(D) You can write the DUMP/WRITE to a "FILE" on any media you have access to

** CAUTION ***

DO NOT select, Clusters, or Sectors, or Physical Sectors
 since that would actually write to you media in those locations,
and that will corrupt your media destination (ie Hard Drive, Floppy, USB, etc)

** WARNING**

(E) ** SELECT "To a File..."  only **

(F) If you are chunking your dumps, name the file in some logical naming convention so you know what each dump is (for later merging and reconstruction)


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Now for in may case where I have a HARD disk with two partition, First DOS and 2nd AMIGA, I've played and come up with something that helps for both the dump spiltting and the restoration.

In my case, I no longer have a readable MBR or any partition info (readable) by any tool that I used.  Perhaps better tools once I transfer my dump to a better computer will help me more.

But I have that lucky one time capture of ADISK. Adisk shows me very closely where my two partitions start/end.



The Norton Disk Edit tool has different views.  ASCII will allows you too see text stored on the Physical disk, just like I found that work processor school paper I was looking for.

** THERE IS A SEARCH for TEXT Feature that Scan the drive, so using search for key word that you now might be on there, save time going Sector, by Sector to find goodies **

You can also go into PARTITION view, which if you are in the correct location, breaks up the complex PARTITION INFO bits (not bytes) into readable Format.  

In WRITE MODE of DISKTOOL, you can change/adjust/correct those partition values. Which I plan to use eventually for a reconstruct attempt.

Notice the ADISK matches the DISK EDitor Partition view of SECTOR 0 of my PLAY PC.




So once I have my IMAGE, my ISA/IDE adapter, a copy of image on another computer to try other tools.  I'll play more.

But one attempt if possible after RE-FORMAT is I'll dump back the image, and use the know partition information, and MANUALLY write it back to attempt a disk recovery.

Not so much the First DOS partition which is badly corrupted, but the 2nd Amiga partition with appear to be totally readable from beginning to end.

The DOS partition I'll just make smaller, and install DOS after formatting the parition.
Smaller to have wiggle room for the Amiga Partition afterwards.


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Now one special mention as I tried all those tools one was Spinrite.

Too bad I can't use it on my Amiga PC, since it's quite powerful with intelligent analysis, missing bit reconstruction, and probably much more than I know.  

I couldn't get it working with all the setups I had (the DOS version).  {many reasons}

BUT...with each DOS version the is a SPININFO program that is the includes all the documentation.  Lots of explanation of different drive types, how the work, how spinrite analyzes and fixes things.

But for me the BEST FIND with SPINRITE 3 is the complete catalog and specs of every Hard Drive Manufactured at the time.

AND A COMPLETE list of KALOK drives




I have played with all above, in a limited way.  I still have to do the big complete transfer.
Then I'm safe.

A whole 32 MB worth.

Can't imagine trying to do this with my 500 GB Hard Drive. (on X number of 720K floppies)

SO Next Step is I wait for the ISA/IDE Adapter.  Tracking show's it getting closer.

[wbrejnia]

I think I have v5.0 of spinrite and its on a boot USB.   The frontend loader runs in windows where you can prepare boot media, but it boots with a dos replacement.  maybe pc dos. or something.  

Im not sure if MFM drives are supported anymore.  

Best to direct message author on twitter - https://twitter.com/sggrc
He still runs his weekly podcast - Security Now.    
He's pretty old school so you may be able to offer pointers for PC side of things.

Spinrite isnt like a tradiational data recovery tool, its more of a brute force rewrite/correction tool.   If you have bitrot, spinrite will rewrite the data so its has a stronger magnetic signature on the disk.   it might be able to fix obvious partition table issues perhaps.    If there is mechnical issues, then spinrite could make issues worse.

Gotek is a exact floppy emulator can write back to the disk just like a normal floppy, do surface scans,  run copying tools  yeah XCopy!!!

I may reach out to Steve Gibson in some way.   Wonder if this RETRO/PC/HDD challenge I'm facing would tweak his interest his past, and the foundation of his company.  In that Info section of Version 3 it does say if there is a drive that Spinrite can't handle to contact the company  since they are interested.  Obviously this wouldn't be any advancement but just for nostalgia.

I actually think the Spinrite technology is ideal for my drive.  It's in good readable condition but maybe just lost an area of Magnetization.
 During my tool play one command line that was provided came with a HEAD PARK utility.  And since my bad sectors are all in the very low range (while rest of disk is ok), the head not parked could have cause the corruption.  Thus my thinking is a LOW level format would deallocate the few sectors and the rest of the drive would be fine (especially the Upper cylinders where the AmigaDOS partition is.  Maybe spinrite would have a way to directly deallocate the bad area, while keeping the rest (better than using the dumb Western Digital Low Level BIOS).

I did try the V3 of Spinrite that creates a FreeDOS boot disk.  To big for Amiga PC, but didn't work on the DOS/Win31 PC.

6.0 Spinrite version with USB won't work since the Amiga PC and even the 486 with the ISA slot don't have USB.  But I did try getting my WIN31/DOS pc (non ISA) working with USB for file transfers, and got really close.

This shows a DOS dual Driver trick to get USB on DOS.  
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1046069/yes-usb-drivers-dos
It works up the point of USB recognized (label), and even assigns a E: drive to it, but then things don't work.  Could be my HW.

I just think I should wait till the ISA/IDE adapter comes.  As you mention I can change the address to not conflict.  If I can get the WD RLL controler in with a ISA/IDE-IDE drive, then I may be able to run Spinrite on the 486.

I won't need a USB or even a floppy.  I install DOS or a low gen version of windows on the Hard drive using any of my computers, and pop it in to the 486, DOS boot ready.  The work on the RLL drive, side by side.

[wbrejnia]

Sounds a good plan to me. It's been 20 years, waiting a few more days isn't going to make that much difference.

Pat, actually it's 35 years. Still no ISA/IDE in mail.

I know you recommended the ISA/IDE Adapter, and you ordered one too.
Do you actually have your working in a A2000 with bridgeboard (with a Flash card, IDE drive or both)?

I actually am thinking of a plan B.  Since the Gotek is virtual writeable floppy, I could just image blank Floppies into the Gotek (Correct?) and if I get AWRITE working, copy across from the Amiga PC to the AmigaOS, the copy to the Gotek Floppy which USB (I guess then I have to extract the Data from the ADF file on my Windows Workstation).