**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

THIS MIGHT BE A CLUE (on How my setup Ran on Amiga PC Side)

Here is something, I never paid attention to.

There is a 2nd card on the Amiga PC Side.
It might shed light on how my PC setup ran.
It's an RS232 Parrallel Port Card, which I probably had hooked up to a dot matrix printer for my University work. I remember I never had a PC at the time, and my Amiga PC was my work center for MATLAB.

Here is where the cards are.



Here is the RS232 card. (I pulled it out)

 
 Back side of card for Numbers
 
 
 

If I understand what it takes to make that RS232 card work, it might help to understand how to get the WD Hard Drive Card to work.

Would an RS232 card like that need drivers in DOS side of Amiga PC?

[wbrejnia]

JUST THINKING OUT LOUD HERE.

Is it possible that things worked like this.

1) The HDD controller and the RS2323 didn't need drivers.
2) There is no need for a 5.25" DOS Floppy to boot the AMIGA PC
3) The PC Side simply enabled the WD HARD Driver Controller
- That Activated the Octagan Hard driver in Auto Boot
- The PC booted off the Hard Drive in DOS Partition.

Maybe I need to put back the original Kickstart 1.2 ROM and try again. (With a rebuilt Workbench Disk from the partially readable one I have)

What I describe above is how the 486 PC boots.

[wbrejnia]

XTs need drivers for everything except basic graphics, keyboard, floppy, clock. Some will mount cards automatically from ROM on the card if the BIOS supports it, but rare with XT and 8 bit ISA gear. Wasn't a "standard" way to do that, IIRC. Stone Age, really.

The A2000 is not that dissimilar, but at least it has a 16 bit autoconfig bus. The Amiga was always nice graphics with a slow processor nailed to it, really. You had to fit more processor power, but at least you could. CPU cards came much later on the PC. ATs were nice, but they were never Amigas.

Anyway, you got all the resources out there, just consult them and think about cracking the data out, whatever it was. I'm guessing it's student stuff, which can turn out surprisingly useful later in life.

 Thanks for that clarification.  No point wasting time on what won't work.  DRIVERS NEEDED (don't have them).
 
 You mention that some cards will automount from ROM.  What caught my attention on the documentation I found, is the WD HD card does have an Embedded format tool that can be accessed from DOS in some kind of Debug command.  But who knows what that means.
 
 I will take one last look at that workbench disk just in case there is a clue, but can't see anything special being there.  It's boot the Bridgeboard PC fine. What else could it do without access to the HD on the PC side.
 
 Anyway to save me time on Limitation of Amiga Tools. If I remember correctly there is a way to access a 3.5" Amiga Floppy from a Windows PC. (Correct?).
 
 Amiga Explorer is one way. Correct?
 
 Another tool I noticed on my Explorer computer is ADFread.
 
 I need to read back on this thread since there was mention of other tools for scanning and stripping/recovering corrupt disks.

[wbrejnia]

One other option (846 PC).
 
 I just got permission from my friend who lent me that 486 PC.  He doesn't need it and if I break it he doesn't care.
 
 So I'll rip it apart and see if the WD Controller card will fit in there with the Hard drive.  Maybe (doubt it) BIOS will pick it up.
 
 Can't hurt to try.

[wbrejnia]

if you havent done so, please read the manual.

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/a2088xt

A2088-A2286.pdf


I get the feeling there might be alot of stabbing in the dark within this thread.

How about visit the local Commodore user meetup ? http://www.tpug.ca/

WOW!! TPUG (Toronto Pet User Group) is still around. (They meet like 15 minutes from my house. Incredible)
I used to attend those club meetings  decades ago for the Commodore 64 Knowledge. Even met Jim Butterfield.
Very interesting. I got to make the next meeting and bring the Amiga in the back of the VAN.

Yes this is stabbing in the dark. It's all I have with my limited knowledge.

I did look up the bridgeboard before your post and was working on this.

BRIDGEBOARD SPEC SAYS
-------------------------------------------------------------
Floppy Disks: Supports up to 2 floppy disk drive from the following:
1. One PC-only external drive (3.5" or 5.25") 2. Two PC-only internal drives of same computer type (PC or Amiga),
3.5" 1.44MB PC drive, 3.5" 720KB/880KB PC or Amiga drive, 3.5" 880KB/1.76MB dual-speed Amiga drive, 5.25" high density, or 5.25" low density. 3.
One shared 3.5" Amiga drive Card Type: Uses both Amiga bus and PC ISA bus. Occupies one of the two combined positions
.-------------------------------------------------T

Thus the Bridgeboard will support TWO Floppy drives.
I hooked up a 3.5" to the Bridgeboard using the cable from the 486.
3.5" Drive spins up on boot attempt, but says Bad DiskFormatting a 1.44MB DISK version of DOS to try. Could be the 3.5" drive isn't compatible.

[wbrejnia]

or maybe the disk your trying to access has deteriorated alot.

Your not kidding.  I had to try 6 floppies to format a 3.5" successfully.  They are all degrading.
 
 and now I face something worse.  The only 5.25" DOS floppy I have won't boot.  Amiga PC tries, but it won't boot, so it's also deteriorated from using it these last few days.  
 
 I'm really stuck since I didn't have any luck putting in the 3.5" into the Amiga PC (tried all kind of combos.  I figure it's formatting capacity, or just different generation Floppy controllers-Floppy Drives).

 I'm deteriorating into a Dead end, if I don't come up with a fresh idea or workaround.

[wbrejnia]

I would just purchase a Gotek floppy emulator. That way you can just deal with floppy images instead of physical oxidised media.

For PC - http://bit.ly/2j3iOfl

For Amiga - the above floppy emulator will need its firmware updated to work on an amiga. You can purchase one online already modified for Amiga use. http://bit.ly/2jRcWKu

This would save alot of heart ache. imagine just keeping all your floppy images on usb plugged into the gotek floppy emulator and then selecting from the device which image to use in DF0: simple.

Thanks.  If I do go forward with upgrading (I actually might) it won't be with all this flaky unreliable stuff.

[wbrejnia]

THREAD Coming to an END ( WHY ALL THIS FUSS over a STONE AGE Hard Drive)

So in case anyone is wondering why all this struggle and not just upgrade as suggested.

This thread and attempt was purely to get access to that Original Hard Drive that I used in University on the PC Side.

I spent my money on an Amiga. Had no interest in XT PC's, but needed one for Electronics School.
And on that Drive, I'm 95% sure is a Electronic Copy of my Thesis Paper, which I lost the Hard Copy years ago in a flood.

Would be cool to read it again, and show my Son who is actually starting a High School Courses in a few weeks in Computer Programming and Robotics Automation. For me to.

So not sure if it's appropriate or Norm to share, but what the heck not, this Thesis Project was probably something folks Use even Today for the Kickstart Burns.

The THESIS was a UNIVERSAL EPPROM & Single Chip MicroProcessor Programmer. A real working model at the end of Graduation (1991).

I have some paper photo's that my Mom recently passed on to me.

Here is the Programmer.


It was Truly Universal since it could handle any Chip that fit into that Socket.

Inside shows the Interface Board, with Programmable Voltage Power Supply to handle any Chip Voltage required.


To handle various Chip Pinouts, there was a Custom Cartridge Module that plugged into the back to re-route the addressing, data buses and power.

I have the Module sitting on my shelf in my office (the rest was lost)
I actually got this module back last March 2016, when my Dad Passed away (I was going thru his stuff). He kept it for years.
That moment when I found the module it shook me up, and got me on this mission to get the Thesis.


More modules could be made for the Base Unit,
but the inside shows how This One Module handled the 9 different chips it supported (via toggle switches and push buttons)


I wrote the User Interface for the PC, to upload the Compiled C Code, or data to be burn via Serial cable to the base unit.


It could read chips, make copies, and burn new one. If I had it today, I copy make copies of Kickstart ROMS, or make new ones from images.

It was a fun Thesis (learned a lot) , got 95% (lost 5% for Spelling Errors. Professor was tough)


SO A COPY of that Thesis Paper is what this Thread was about.

Even if I don't get that Paper ever, my mom got me these photo's just last Christmas,
and this was the best one, the DESIGN WHITE BOARD of the Programmer from my Bedroom wall.


Thanks for everyone's help. You guys have been great. I would have given up sooner if it wasn't for you all.

I'll never give up, but I'll take it a bit slower.

Wife and kids want to kill me for blowing away a whole weekend on this.

Wally

[wbrejnia]

You can detect the hard drives within the bios on the 486 right ? .

If you are referring to the Hard Drive in the Amiga with my school work the answer is no. If I could I'd be very close achieving my goal (Even if I were to get access to Ascii text data within since that's all I really want (read what I wrote in that Thesis Paper).

Going beyond and getting a image of either the DOS or (if an amiga partition exsists) would be the next step. If somehow possible.

However, I haven't torn apart that 486 to put in the WD controller (if it even fits into a compatible slot).

That I will try, and is my next step, along with some other hacks or as stated (Stabs in the Dark, which is true).

I am going to email that TPUG user group and see what kind of folks are member and what knowledge or part they have to assist me.
 
 THANKS for that YouTube video of the Bridgeboard emulator.  That sparks some ideas, but not even close to understanding what it would take.

[wbrejnia]

I see a Donate Link on this web site, and since I've gotten so much in so little time I feel compelled to donate a small token of appreciation to assist the upkeep and a thanks for all the information compiled here.
I clicked on it but seem like no donations are active.
Are the folks running this site collecting donations? I'd  hate to send money into a black hole.

[wbrejnia]

I clicked on the link to see what would happen and got taken to a Paypal payment page, plus an auto-response in my inbox. So it appears to still be working if you have a Paypal account?

...which reminds me, I should probably toss a couple bucks for hosting, considering how much time I spend on here. :laughing:

I just made a  token donation (went thru Paypal to A-EON Technology Ltd)
I checked the monthly Goal on the Forum, it didn't update (but could take time).  Will check later.
 
 I'm not the greatest donator to charities, but I do get moved by world disasters.  Also when it come to Freeware software that I really find useful I do donate as well.  The way I see things as far as Forums like this and others. (What if the forum wasn't around, how much would one pay for excellent information pointers (past and present), especially past on Legacy technology.  Also hats off to folks like yourself who reach out and help like you did help me of free will.  That  wouldn't be possible without a place like here).

[wbrejnia]

Thinking about that WD1002a-27x IBM RLL Hard Drive controller in my spare time.

I picked this information up in two places.  (Specifically one Persons Build book for XT machines)

It appears the Western Digital Controller was one of the better ones (RLL Drive) at the time and it has a built in BIOS, so maybe it doesn't need a driver, since nowhere anywhere there is mention of one. Retro stuff is overprice by this controller sells for over $150-250 US today.

Plus the Retro Reseller who has drivers for everything they sell, stated he has no driver for this card.

What documentation says is you can access to on Board BIOS using the DOS "Debug" command, and entering this command "G=C800:5.", which starts a text based interactive menu. (to Format, Partition, etc).


QUOTE: Once in the BIOS program, it will ask you a few questions about your drive. If you do not know the information on your drive, then you are going to have to get it from the drive manufacturer. The next step is to run FDISK. In this program you select the type and number of partitions that you would like to make.

At least if I got this working it would prove I have a good WD Controller and it's alive.

Then the next step is

QUOTE: The next step is to run FDISK. In this program you select the type and number of partitions that you would like to make. After you make the partitions, you will need to format them again using FORMAT. Finally to make your partition bootable you need to run the program SYS.

If FDISK then picked up the drive that would be progress.

I wouldn't re-partition or format, but maybe I could see what partition are there, and verify that I have a working drive.

OF COURSE this all means I need to get my 486 B drive working to make a DOS disk. arrrgh!

[wbrejnia]

Man, both of you are really good finding this material. I tried and never got this close.

Plus the fact that you are around is so nice, I thought you gave up on me. Since things seem kind of "stabbing in the dark" on my side.

That Lifeguard WD tool looks exactly what I need (not going to use it yet) but that Version is the one I was looking for, since I do have similar Floppy version. I ran that Lifeguard tool and it booted MS Dos Right off of it and went into the menu. This version you found looks more ideal (older, possibly for the time).

And that article you found on the DEBUG is great. Looks Promising on what I was thinking (A disk that will recognize without a driver).

But I have two hurdles to face before I even try the two above.

1) IS the 486 and that B: drive that I couldn't get working to make a fresh 5.25" DOS boot disk and add tools to it (like DEBUG).

2) My biggest worry. I pulled out a couple of old 3.25" floppy drives from some spare computers, and I tried with hope to hook one up the the Bridgeboard (To start working with 3.5" floppy rather than the 5.25")

I did 2) because I read in the bridgeboard spec that you can have both a 5.25" and a 3.25". But when I read again, I noticed my 8088 Bridgeboard spec only supports ONE 5.25". Not a 3.5 at all.

So I went back to the 5.25", but from that point onward the 5.25" on the Amiga Bridgeboard DOS connection isn't booting Like it was a few days ago.

The drive activates. LED comes on. The reports bad disk.
This never happened before. It was working fine (Screen Shots prove it). DOS booted on the Bridgeboard with a DOS 6.2 floppy in it.

At first I thought the floppy degraded. But I have two (not sure if 2nd was ever good), but two labeled 5.25" floppies now don't work.

My worry is I damaged the Bridgeboard, or the 5.25" in the Amiga, when I tried to hooked up a 3.5" floppy. (the data bus lines), not the control lines (since control works by LED turning on).

IS THAT POSSIBLE? Are the data lines sensitive to a degree that if the 3.5" connection shorted a data line that it would get damaged. I kind of think this old technology wasn't that sensitive. After all many times in past I reversed the ribbon cable since it can hook on either way.

If I damaged the bridgeboard floppy controller, or the Amiga DOS drive, my mission is over (From an amiga Perspective), and the only hope would be to move efforts into the 486.

[wbrejnia]

Not sure if you have checked all terminator resistors are inplace and correct jumper settings are setup. If the terminator resisters are sockets you may want to remove and reseat them. I didn't realise the 5.25 floppy has these until this thread pop up, not sure if these are on the MFM drives at all.

Hmmm.  Good idea.  Not that they could be in wrong positions, since Never changed, but I like the fact of (remove and reseat).  Might want to do where there is a terminator or jumper to clean up connections.

[wbrejnia]

Looks like you can get the WD1002A-27X


$19 from a computer recycler http://www.4drives.com/4drives/WD1002A-27X.htm

Good spec sheet in that suppliers web site.
 
 Again hope of No Driver needed from DOS with this
 -------------------------------------------------------------------
 be seen by DOS as 4 hds.
 940          W2           closed
             cyls. 17 SPT. Supports only up
             to 16 heads and 663 cylinders
             (physical).
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Could be worthy of a try in the 486.

[wbrejnia]

So I have a clue if the AMIGA Bridgeboard 5.25" DOS Floppies are corrupt of if it's something else (like I damaged something).

I have a box of 10 5.25" floppies. I bought a new box a couple of years ago when my HDD hunt started.

8 of them were never used.

So if I put a Formatted BOOT DISK in, or a unformatted disk, I get a quick "BOOT DISK FAILURE MESSAGE".

In my opinion if the Formatted Boot disk was slightly corrupted, the BridgePC would at least spend a second more trying to read it. But it doesn't.

Time to move things into the 486 (Empty the cards) and see if something can be built for the WD controller and HDD (but I must have 3.25" DOS BOOT floppies to work with as a starting point).   Maybe hook in just the C: (HDD)

Will prepare similar DOS floppies first, since in DOS you can only format a Floppy with the /S (system install) from a working DOS System (same version). I won't have that once I rip apart the 486.