Anti C++ sentiment?

[DaveP]

Folks

I have noticed a disturbing increase in the number of items I have read which dismiss C++ out of hand for esosteric reasons.

I guess this comes from the fact that most system programming interfaces are inherently procedural but probably also for the fact that if you do not understand the underlying semantics of C++ ( e.g. when to use virtual, what a copy constructor does ) then you are swimming in a very very big pond.

I happen to like many languages and have no particular C++ bent ( although pretty experienced and classified as "expert" by the skills board at my company - but then so is the vending machine repair guy ) but what exactly is it that people don't like?

I was told that the "MorphOS community hate C++" which seemed a bizzarre statement so can someone confirm/deny any particular clustering of anti-C++ sentiment there?

I get told a lot that Java is superior to C++ which I find amusing given how much of Java is implemented in C++ and is in fact a "crippled" C++ with a garbage collection thread ( easy to implement in C++ even if you don't implement smart/auto-pointers )?

What is behind the phobic reaction or am I seeing more there than I need to?

To me C++ is a fine language, it is a language for creating further dialects of C++ as much as for creating tools.

Thoughts? Comments or just so much philosophical bollards?

[DaveP]

"probably the steep learning curve."

Thats true, but people can learn a useful subset
like they tend to do with other languages.

I mean obvious concepts are:

BASIC
types and variables
conditionals and loops
i/o
structures

MEDIUM
class
constructor
destructor
methods
instance variables

Even without data-hiding inheritance, references, polymorphism you have a powerful structure there to get going with.

Anyway the first AmigaBOOK for publication is ready and we are submitting it to Addison Wesley Monday!


Whats the subject? C++ for Amiga Users.

[DaveP]

Well they have to send it to a "reader" first, then do sample manuscripts for checking by us but yes, the idea has been accepted in principle.

Keep your fingers crossed for us! If publishing doesn't happen then it will be available in free PDF,
BookManager, PS and HTML form on AmigaBooks.

[DaveP]

@Eric

Does the name Mark Roberts mean anything to you?

[DaveP]

"what exactly will be covered in the book?"
How to use StormC, HiSoft C++, GCC to build executables, libraries and more.
C++ introduction.
C++ recommended design patterns ( where the auto-pointer code is also republished from the other topic ).
Taking advantage of the Amiga

how in depth will the amiga stuff be?
How to implement:
    multi-tasking ( exec tasks, dos processes, signals etc )
   message passing
   intuition for newbies
   basic graphical operations
   writing a commodity
   app icons and other strange stuff
   interacting the user
   TCP/IP networking
   security
   device I/O

what libraries/devices
   oh man. :-D Not everything by a long way but enough to get going!

We will not be allowed to publish under the name "amigabook" because it is considered a trademark problem. So authors full names.

[DaveP]

That's a coder dicision. Good programmers know to use a language that fits the task. I really don't know what happens when you try to mix C and C++ together. I presume that's a bad thing to do?

Not at all, mixing C and C++ is half the fun of C++. The freedom of both languages. So the fear is the OO bigot view of the world - everything is an object! I understand a bit more now.

Design patterns should be applied where they are best suited - this includes OO.

Oh and the compiler bloat, that IS because of the compiler implementation and not the language.

[DaveP]

@Treke

I think C++ will slowly retire (but not entirely) when everybody becomes more negligent to the the performance aspects of SW. The process has started. Even when it is an OO language which gives a developer the greatest freedom

Simplified dialects of C++ will in my view become more popular over time. C will never die, it is too tied to the heart of Win32 and Unix. Java will not die as it is used at the core of many enterprise days ( e.g. WebSphere ).

I see the future as a simplified C++ and complex C++. C++ will be taught in simplified form with auto-pointers and single inheritance ( and pure virtual classes for interfaces ). With perhaps a decent class library with reasonably rich function like the Java class library.

No, I think C and C++ are here to stay, Java too. C# will become a nother VB - something that there is a market for and people use but it will not be the be all and end all dominant spirit of the marketplace.

Perhaps I am wrong, I hope not.

As for SystemjProgramming, yes I can see that the naming issues with classes makes it difficult anyway. In theory you could have a structure with function pointers to class methods and all that but it would be a nightmare.

Hence there will always be a place for procedural C/C++.

IMVHO of course.