Indivision ECS and Picasso II

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Got my Picasso II yesterday.  Still learning everything about it.    Right now I've got it hooked up to a 19" LCD monitor displaying all the PII screenmodes, and output of my Indivision ECS hooked into an identical monitor, displaying all the normal Amiga screenmodes.

Trying to figure out the monitor passthrough of the PII.  As soon as I run a standard HD15 VGA cable between the output of my Indivision and the input of the PII, the screen displaying output from the PII goes black.  Even if it's got a PII screenmode open and displaying correctly, just the act of plugging the Indivision output into the PII input blanks it.

I know from reading the instructions that the PII should support scandoubled input.  Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?  Maybe my cable is too long?

About to go out and buy this one unless anyone has any better suggestions:

http://www.neweggbusiness.com/product/product.aspx?item=9b-82-191-085
 
Thanks!  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Thanks, yeah, that's what it seems like it should do.  The PII seems to have no problem switching between displays using the two monitors, I can hear the relay clicking at the appropriate times and whatnot, don't understand why the display completely goes black when I plug anything into the pass through.

Is the cable you're using a standard HD15 VGA cable? How long is it? All of mine are the standard 5-6', hence why I'm thinking to order a shorter one.

I also tried changing the Indivision between 1.00 mode (60hz) and 1.25 mode (75hz output) with no difference.  It's running the updated 1.10 firmware and otherwise "just works"(tm).

Am wondering what would happen if I hooked the VGA output from a laptop or PC into the input of the PII? Theoretically that should just "pass through" as well, right?  (if I switched the Miggy to a non-P96 screenmode first, of course).

Bah, always something!

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I have a picasso II that has bad relay/switch. It makes a clicking noise but it doesn't hold the signal.

Oh. That doesn't sound good at all. Jumpers are already off.  I'll order myself a shorter cable, cross my fingers, then get in touch with the seller. *sigh* Dual monitors is cool, it's what we use on all our PC's at the office (or three monitors, or four), but it's not what I'm intending for my Miggy. Thanks! Maybe I can track down a good external switch...

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Amusingly enough I don't have any old-style CRT's, just racks and stacks of LCD monitors, LOL. There are worse problems one could have, right?
 
Well, I do still have a couple 1084's that I keep tripping over. They've been listed on Amibay for months. Anyone want one?
 
I'm using the latest Picasso96 software, released May 2011, so age of software shouldn't be an issue. Leaning more toward mine maybe having the same problem as Matt's. Want to sell your PII, by any chance?  :laugh1:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I would assume so. The challenge will be to find schematics and replacement parts.  Here's a thread with someone else apparently looking for the same thing:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=66843

Will poke around at it a bit more, or else just try to pick up a different card. What the heck, I'm just crazy enough that I want to get this working right, and still have some holiday bonus $$ sitting around that I dedicated to spending on Amiga parts, LOL.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Hi!  It was worth a shot checking.  I've got a tub full of cables and tried with both blue and black ones.  The blue ones have all 15 pins, the black ones are missing one pin on the second row.  I haven't gone so far as to do a continuity check to see if the pins are wired straight through, but wasn't having any luck with either of the types... and I tried quite a few.  That's why I was wondering if there's some special wiring the PII needs, but as far as I've been able to determine that is not the case?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Er, dumb question maybe, but are you sure the cables are connected to the right ports on the PII? Software settings for passthrough correct? Hardware connection being made with power turned off?

Yup, tried all that.  I'm using the latest Picasso96 2.1c and have "Display Chain" enabled through PVS and the tooltypes (that's the only setting I could find that seems to be related to switching).  Even the Early Startup screen doesn't display when hooked into the pass-through (monitor flickers for a second and says something about "cannot display this analog mode"), so I don't think it's software-related.

I normally make my connections with the hardware off, but I've noticed the following scenerio:

- Output of Indivision hooked into input on Picasso
- Output of Picasso hooked into LCD monitor
--- System boots but screen remains black, even though once booted into Workbench it should be displaying a PII mode
- If I pull the cable going between the Indivision output to the PII input, then (and only then) will the PII display the Workbench

Seems like I'm getting no love from this card if anything is plugged into it's input.  Blargh.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Well, crap.  Last effort, I hooked up the 23-to-15 pin silver C= adapter and plugged that into the input on the Picasso II, and switched to Multiscan mode.  Display came right up.  So that solves it, the PII input and switcher work fine, but don't play nice with the output of the Indivision ECS.  Wonder how the heck I'm supposed to fix that?  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Tried them all.
 
"Mode" changes from 1.00 (60Hz) to 1.25 (75Hz), and toggles the built-in Graffiti emulation.
 
"Video Output" lets you toggle normal, scanlines, or TV emulation.
 
If you toggle the Display Config from "Internal" to "User" it allows you to flip the Hsync and Vsync from negative to positive. Tried all combinations.
 
Screen Timing and Screen Position don't seem to do anything on my monitors.
 
This is with the latest version of the config tool that I'm aware of.
 
In all cases as soon as I plug the output of the Indi into the PII the screen just goes black.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

What make and model of LCD monitor are using with your Indivision ECS? I have a Sony Trinitron I plan to use at first with the Indivision but later I want to replace it with a LCD screen.

Hi! My office is primarily a Dell shop, but I've had no problems using about a half-dozen different models of generic Dell business monitors with the Indivision ECS. Mostly I stick to 19" 4:3 models since the Miggy doesn't like widescreen so much, but I did once briefly use a widescreen setup with a super-high res screenmode. Haven't had a chance to try out "HD720" screenmode yet.
 
I've got an old 1906FP and a 1907FP hooked up right now, on the Indivision and PII, respectively, with no issues. (well, aside from my issue that the PII input pass-through doesn't seem to work with the Indivision output, blargh) I've also hooked up our office projector to my A2000 and used it to play Battlesquadron projected up on the wall, LOL.
 
At home my A500 is hooked up to a 37" Vizio LCD TV, but I've hooked it to a few other monitors as well. Again, no issues. If you're looking at Dell monitors look for models labeled "Ultrasharp" for best display, and also if you're planning on playing games look for one with a fast refresh rate (<5ms).
 
IMHO the Indivision is a rock-solid piece of kit for a great price. All these nay-sayers that say an Amiga needs to be hooked up to a CRT monitor to look good need to come visit my office, LOL.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Does the Indivision ECS have analogue and digital output? I know on the AGA model it can be toggled; I'm wondering if your Indivision may be set to digital, or if set to analgoue+digital if the digital 'noise' is effecting the analogue sync signals (there is some crosstalk/interference on the AGA model). Perhaps the Picasso is particularly fussy?
 
Of course, this may all be irrelevant for the ECS model...

Good ideas, AFAIK the Indi ECS only does analog (HD15 VGA output), it doesn't have a digital mode or DVI connector option.  The config program for the ECS model seems to have many less options than the AGA version so I don't really know about that stuff.  I've got another PII on the way (a Rev. 1.6, my current one is Rev. 1.4), maybe I'll have better luck with a newer model?

Not having much luck with google searching, I vaguely recall seeing someone say they had a PII+ that worked with an Indi, but now I can't find the link for it any more.    Wonder if I'd have any luck asking Jens?

On the bright side I was showing the system off the other day and people were pretty impressed by my "dual monitor" Amiga, LOL.  :crazy:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

All of the monitors we have have HD15 VGA inputs, most also have DVI and either DisplayPort or HDMI connections.  Business class products don't eff around.    Only thing I wish they had was internal speakers (not for our office users, but for my Miggy, LOL).

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

don't forget the +5V pin resistor

First thing I did.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Is that a pin setting/jumper on the Picasso II?

Resistor on PII needs to be removed for it to work with modern LCD monitors.  See this thread for more details:

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=51133

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Just to follow up on this old thread, I've now bought a second PII, this one a Rev. 1.6, still no dice. Neither a 1.4 or 1.6 PII will work at all when Indivision output is plugged into its input port. The screen stays black until the Indivision is unplugged. Both PII's otherwise work fine.

I'm beginning to think there is a fundamental incompatibility between the output on the Indivision and the input/pass-through port on the PII.

I can't really be the only one who's ever tried this, can I?

Should I just keep throwing money at graphics cards and hope one works? Maybe I'd have better luck if I can find a PII+ or a Spectrum? Or should I just give up and buy some kind of external monitor switch, dashing my dreams of the perfect A2000? LOL.

On that note, anyone want to buy a couple Picasso II's? :p  (j/k until I can get this resolved)