Converting TV signal from Amiga to HDMI?

[djos]

I hate to be a party pooper but the SCART(RGB)-HDMI Converters arent that great, the bad news is the picture looks nice until things start moving then the picture goes very soft, it's quite distracting (even the pointer in WorkBench).

Basically the "de-interlace picture" part of the converter isnt all that good and results in moving items looking really really soft - like they were shot with a slightly out of focus camera, then as soon as the motion stops the picture sharpens up, it's quite distracting especially on side-scrolling games.

Another issue is it won't work with dvi-d only monitors as it needs the hdcp drm and it force stretches the 4:3 picture to 16:9 - the issue is some TV's (eg my Bravia 32" LCD) wont allow you to adjust the aspect ratio of HDMI sourced HD video.

Here is the SCART(RGB)-Component Converter I have and recommend:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-SCART-RGB-to-YUV-Component-Video-Converter-Scaler-/221156873851?pt=US_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item337dfa167b&_uhb=1

There are other RGB-Component converters around that I haven't tested, however this one works perfectly as long as your TV can handle the slightly non-standard amiga sync via component.

One of the best things about this unit is the fact that it's not trying to up-scale or frig with the video in any way and doesnt introduce any noticeable lag at all. It also means that those HDTV's that wont let you change HD video, (supplied via HDMI), aspect ratio to 4:3 wont have an issue letting you set your AR to 4:3 on SD content so you dont get unwanted strech'o vision playing your amiga games!

[djos]

Well that may be true with analog component output, but even upscaled to 1920 x 1080 the games I've played are pretty sharp.  I havent noticed any softening then sharpening.

Have a read of this AmiBay Topic:

http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?20468-Solution-for-external-Flicker-fixer/page65&p=451678#post451678

I was the was one of first people to buy one for testing so I've had a lot of experience with it. Initially I was thrilled but then I started noticing its limitations (Horizontal scrolling is the main issue).

Here are some pics I took of it a while back (Amiga 1200 @ 50hz to crappy Samsung SyncMaster 225MS (set to 4:3 for correct image display) via SCART/RGB-HDMI Converter @ 720p50hz):

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71121999/Amiga/Amiga%20SCART-HDMI%20Converter/P1020081.png

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71121999/Amiga/Amiga%20SCART-HDMI%20Converter/P1020085.png

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/71121999/Amiga/Amiga%20SCART-HDMI%20Converter/P1020091.png

But try playing something like R-Type or Shadow of the Beast were there are dark backgrounds and the soft de-interlacing issue really jumps out at you!

In addition none of the monitors I've bought in the past few years have anything other than DVI or HDMI.

It doesnt work with DVI-D only Monitors as 99% of them dont support HDCP - they only work with HDMI equipped monitors.

HDMI is simply DVI-D(igital) + HDCP (DRM system) - TV's may differ from Monitors in that they have additional processing that PC Monitors typically dont have (more advanced scaling, support for TV resolutions etc).

The main difference between HDMI and DVI-D in a PC/TV context is that HDMI defaults to RGB-Video (Reduced colour range) and PC's use RGB-Full Range. This sometimes makes PC output look weird via HDMI as there is a colour range mismatch.

[djos]

So what is the Amiga solution to DVI/HDMI ?

Delends on how much money you have to spend, personally for $50 or less the HDMI converter we are discussing cant be beat but if you have component inputs the scart(rgb)-YUV converter does a better job with less processing lag.

[djos]

Perhaps those are hardware specific issues and not related to all converters and all HDMI monitors and TV's in all the gin joints in all the world; when she walks into mine, I have 2 monitors (older Dell ST2310L & new AOC) and 2 TV's (Westinghouse) all 1080 x 1920 and 3 SCART to HDMI converters, and these do not have your problems.  I also don't seem to "game" as much as you do, spending more time on productivity programs.

There is a possibility they've improved their de-interlacing algorithm since I bought mine - if I get a chance I might capture some video so you can see it.

[djos]

@djos:

Hi djos,

Do you know if the CVS287 adapter actually converts PAL/NTSC video signal, i.e. if I use a PAL Amiga + an Amiga SCART cable + the CVS287 adapter and connect it to an NTSC HDTV with Component inputs, will it work?


Thanks,

x56h34

EDIT: Sorry I got my wires crossed - No it wont.

[djos]

Thanks. So it seems like the SCART to HDMI adapter is the way to go when needing PAL<=>NTSC conversions, however the SCART to Component adapter may be a better choice when it comes to general picture quality, especially when there is motion on screen.

Essentially, yes.

Btw, I noticed a new RGB-HDMI converter claiming a blur-free picture - no idea if it supports 15khz Amiga RBG tho but maybe worth a try:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adapter-Converter-SCART-to-HDMI-Connector-with-Up-Scale-Scaler-HD-1080P-/321333892106?pt=AU_Electronics_Portable_Audio_Accessories&hash=item4ad0fe140a&_uhb=1

[djos]

@Djos, when saying soft do you mean somewhat motion blur like picture?
Ive seen HDMI recordings with a good capture card from that exact converter that Danbeaver was using with gameplay from a Sega Genesis/Mega Drive and seems to be quite good and I don't notice any motion blur, I just ordered one to see how well it works

No it's not like motion blur, it's more of a soft focus appearance - it is quite noticable in games when a background stops moving because it suddenly goes from soft to sharp.

You can see it moving the mouse around workbench in the default modes as the mouse pointer goes soft while moving and then sharp when it stops.

[djos]

I'm not claiming nor attempting to convert the world to HDMI, but in a price to quality (where there are soo many cheapskates in the Amiga domain) this beats the alternatives by costing half to one fourth as much; and if there were "motion blurring," well, duh!  Its motion, Dude!

No need to be so defensive Dan, im not calling it rubbish, im just saying that if you have component inputs the RGB-YUV converter provides a better quality conversion and leaves the higher quality electronics in your TV to do the scaling and de-interlacing.

:cool:

PS, it's not motion blur like Mouse trails on an old LCD, it's a visible softening of only the parts of the picture that are moving in most games.

[djos]

How is $41.95 half the price of a DCE Scanmagic, a CompServ/Arxon, a 4-button thingy on eBay, an Indy AGA, a host of other solutions, and is available.  I don't see many monitors in the states with component inputs, but I could be wrong now.

The OP was primarily asking about using an Amiga on TV's, most TV's still have Component inputs.

Hi' all.

I realise that there are quite a few posts about how to get the best signal from your A500/600/1200 etc. to your TV/Monitor. However, I cannot seem to find any, which is exclusively about transferring signal from Amiga to a modern TV, with some sort of HDMI cable.



Does anybody have good solid experience on the easiest/cheapest way to get your Amiga out-signal into a HDMI cable and on to the huge and wonderful livingroom TV? :-)

All best,
Anders, Copenhagen.

[djos]

Any tv with component input should support 50/60hz content natively, it's part of the standard so not a cheat at all - grab the component converter and give it a shot, mine works in NTSC and PAL happily.

[djos]

Are you 100% sure about this? I was going to get a scart cable and hdmi converter to use with an older Dell DVI monitor with dvi to hdmi adaptor. (It doesnt have hdmi inputs or component just vga and dvi)

100% sure.

Check your manual for references to hdcp support, if there are none then the HDMI converter won't work. HDMI is essentially DVI-D + HDCP and the latter is entirely optional on DVI-D.

[djos]

On my vizio 22" lcd tv I use the Green on the Component input section on the back of the tv and select "AV" mode. This gives full colour and works in both PAL and NTSC interlaced and non and also Flicker Fixes the image!

You are missing AJ's point, his test is to see if your TV supports the Amiga's bi-level sync - a minority of tv's don't like it and require the more common tri-level sync via component.

[djos]

My results are much the same as magnetic's. I see a rock-solid monochromatic image, in the correct aspect-ratio as well! The TV reports it as 480i.  

Unfortunately, when I switch to PAL mode, the screen goes blank.  

I will test an interlaced screen when I get my WB 3.1 booted up again.

Hmm, unfortunately it sounds like you have a TV that only supports 60hz via component video.

[djos]

I'm a little late getting back on this thread to report my experience with one of the SCART to HMDI devices. It does the job, but I have to agree with djos on the soft-focus effect with objects that are in motion. If you're only a casual user and are sitting at a distance to a large screen TV, you probably won't mind this at all.

Yeah that issue drove me mental and gave me headaches!

In addition to that, however, I found another problem I find more offensive. Take a look at the attached image. Why the zipper-like pattern? I am using overscan on my Workbench screen to maximize the display, but since it shows up on games as well, I have no control over those.

This happens on NTSC signals only (what I will be using most of the time). PAL signals do not show this.

@djos -- does the SCART to Component adapter do the same? I have an NTSC/PAL friendly LCD panel now with a component input. One of these devices could be a good fit.

That is a strange artifact, TBH i've never seen it on on either the RGB-HDMI or the RGB-YUV converter no matter whether im using 50hz or 60hz.

There's certainly no harm in trying the RGB-YUV converter if you can find a seller that offers a money back warranty if you doesnt work for you.

[djos]

Agreed. I am curious as to what your SCART to HDMI converter looks like then. Perhaps you found a better one than mine.

Mine is identical to DanBeever's unit he posted pics of HERE.