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Author Topic: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!  (Read 42301 times)

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Offline ple3003Topic starter

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2003, 11:21:03 PM »
Quote
OS4 will be pirated but i would say the PPC card version the most, give it a few days/week after it is released before a ISO is uploaded to warez sites.

Do you even realize the amount of trouble theese people are getting themselves into. I, among the majority of the community would make their life not worth living. :-x  Am i being realistic? Fill me in please...

Some other people's point of views:

-"325. Ross Heinlein
I'm in developement of a POP board, the "barbie" http://penguinppc.org/dev/pop/ If I can make AOS4 run on this, I'll contribute my sources/drivers, if not, well, one board is better than none, eh? Barbie will NOT be licensing AOS, we don't deal with software companies, it's not our job to chase down OS developers. If you'd like to work on this board, fine, I'll help, if not, that's fine too. Your policy guarantees that your OS will only run on boards specifically manufactured for that purpose, which is very shortsighted considering many PPC boards are about to begin developement due to recently available PPC chipset solutions. You need to realise that as Hardware manufacturers, your OS licensing is NOT our concern, we just build hardware, we don't play games and tailor separate product lines for every "niche-OS" who has crazy ideas, you should rethink yours. I do not speak for my employer in a manner I can be held accountable for, but what I say is a valid representation of their (and my) views on the matter"

-"710. Fred Koler
I will not buy Amiga OS if I am 'locked in' to only approved hardware. I learned my lesson last time"

found it at this site...
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Offline ple3003Topic starter

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2003, 11:29:14 PM »
You probably hate me by now. And yes, i know MOS doesn't run on the A1 either. It's a real shame.
Found this comment, and i would like to think this goes for MOS too...
-"772. Sander Assenbroek Machielsen
I've been using Amigas since 1986 and have spend thousands of dollars on all this wonderful but overpriced custom computer hardware. I want to be able to use the Amiga OS on other machines too, that are cheaper and more capable than what you are offering. In the past, Amiga meant doing things your own way, you were in control of your computer. This was thanks to the wonderful OS, which evolved over the years, but still needs to be run on ever more aging hardware. With a new version coming up, you are forcing people in a certain direction. Let the people choose and please listen to them - you owe it to us all. We don't need another Mac..."
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Offline Paul_Gadd

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2003, 11:46:07 PM »
@ple3003

Quote
You probably hate me by now.


Hate you?

What are you even talking about?
 

Offline ple3003Topic starter

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #62 on: January 11, 2003, 12:43:10 AM »
Quote
Hate you? What are you even talking about?

I started the AmigaONE vs Pegasos thread. This was not an attempt by me to say Peg/MOS is a better choice just because bla bla bla. Rather to show people there is an interesting alternative to the great AmigaONE. This ofcourse  ignited the flame-wars, and that was not appriciated by some people.
This thread as well, seem to trigger some feelings.
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Offline Alkemyst

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2003, 01:58:20 AM »
The petition is total crap.

Its not about saving AmigaOS.
How could all of us not buying Aone/Aos4 save amigaOS.
That would kill it out right.

NO more AmigaOS versions.
AMIGA.INC will then drop all AmigaOS ref. from its site
 
Hyperion will stay with MacOS/Linux

Eyetech will continue with the Linux version of the mobo.

And i will move on to Apple.

This petition is like a terrorist out fit. Do it My way or ill kill you off.

This petition will not change the plans of Amiga.inc,Hyperion,Eyetech.
All it could do is change the plans of the users to not buy anything & the end result is ITS ALL OVER FOR AMIGAOS.
PowerTower A1200,060/80Mhz,Heatsink&Fan,66MBRam,PowerFlyerGold,50xCDRomdrive,250Zip,2.1GB&34GB HD,internal Scandoubler & FF,19\\"Monitor,Mediator,Voodoo3-3000,PaceSolo 56k ,PortJnr2,ZEKeys-XS,SMON ,Os3.9
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2003, 02:02:42 AM »
Quote

Alkemyst wrote:
The petition is total crap.

Its not about saving AmigaOS.
How could all of us not buying Aone/Aos4 save amigaOS.
That would kill it out right.

NO more AmigaOS versions.
AMIGA.INC will then drop all AmigaOS ref. from its site
 
Hyperion will stay with MacOS/Linux

Eyetech will continue with the Linux version of the mobo.

And i will move on to Apple.

This petition is like a terrorist out fit. Do it My way or ill kill you off.


Alkemyst, you need to learn the difference between "Petition" and "Boycott"
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Offline Alkemyst

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2003, 02:10:16 AM »
Quote
Alkemyst, you need to learn the difference between "Petition" and "Boycott"

I do & if you read some of the comments you can see that the petition is doing exactly that.
Its getting some ppl to boycott Aone/Aos4.
PowerTower A1200,060/80Mhz,Heatsink&Fan,66MBRam,PowerFlyerGold,50xCDRomdrive,250Zip,2.1GB&34GB HD,internal Scandoubler & FF,19\\"Monitor,Mediator,Voodoo3-3000,PaceSolo 56k ,PortJnr2,ZEKeys-XS,SMON ,Os3.9
 

Offline Paul_Gadd

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2003, 02:16:29 AM »
@ple3003

Yeah i remember, this AmigaONE vs Pegasos madness has gone over the top,

I will not be purchasing either of them but i think it is great to see healthy competition in the Amiga market,

Let the best man win,

As for the petition you posted comments from, yeah i've signed it  :-).
 

Offline Korodny

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #67 on: January 11, 2003, 02:20:41 AM »
@Seehund

Can you imagine Ben Hermans facial expression if you would have asked him 15 months ago to develop OS4 as a "secondary" OS for Apple and Pegasos customers? I can. Hyperion's most important condition was that somebody provides a dedicated hardware platform for their OS.

Escena had left a few months earlier and the Pegasos runs MOS. Eyetech was the only candidate left, and as they don't have the neccessary engineering skills or the money to fund an external development team, they had to adopt an existing design - the TeronCX/PX.

Despite the fact that they're using a finished motherboard design, Eyetech have pumped serious amounts of money into the A1-G3/XE. But now other companies (Terrasoft) will be selling the very same motherboards (this was planned from the beginning) at a lower price, as they don't have to pay licensing fees to Amiga Inc. Would you buy an Eyetech AmigaOne if you could get the same motherboard from Terrasoft - at a lower price? I know I wouldn't.

The licensing scheme (amongst other things) protects Eyetech's investments into the AmigaOne. Without such a protection, Eyetech wouldn't have started the project at all (IMHO). Without the A1, there wouldn't be OS4.
 

Offline Alkemyst

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #68 on: January 11, 2003, 02:55:25 AM »
Quote
by Paul_Gadd on 2003/1/11 2:16:29

@ple3003

Yeah i remember, this AmigaONE vs Pegasos madness has gone over the top,

I will not be purchasing either of them but i think it is great to see healthy competition in the Amiga market,

Let the best man win,

As for the petition you posted comments from, yeah i've signed it.

That is quite common i have found.
Alot of the ppl who signed the petition have no intention of buying anything Anyway.
So they sign the petition to stir things up abit as they have nothing to lose cos they were going to stay with their PC's/Mac's anyway.
PowerTower A1200,060/80Mhz,Heatsink&Fan,66MBRam,PowerFlyerGold,50xCDRomdrive,250Zip,2.1GB&34GB HD,internal Scandoubler & FF,19\\"Monitor,Mediator,Voodoo3-3000,PaceSolo 56k ,PortJnr2,ZEKeys-XS,SMON ,Os3.9
 

Offline Alkemyst

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #69 on: January 11, 2003, 02:58:08 AM »
@Korodny

Damn Right.
PowerTower A1200,060/80Mhz,Heatsink&Fan,66MBRam,PowerFlyerGold,50xCDRomdrive,250Zip,2.1GB&34GB HD,internal Scandoubler & FF,19\\"Monitor,Mediator,Voodoo3-3000,PaceSolo 56k ,PortJnr2,ZEKeys-XS,SMON ,Os3.9
 

Offline Paul_Gadd

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #70 on: January 11, 2003, 03:27:11 AM »
@Alkemyst

If you have read those comments then it clearly says why they wont purchase a A1 board,

But again we are back to the good old "someone has said something negative about the wonderfull Amiga" which must be tearing you apart inside,

They is no mention of Boycotting on there or even plans to do so unless you have visited a page which i missed (url please).
 

Offline Seehund

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #71 on: January 11, 2003, 03:52:30 AM »
OK, I suffer from mild ethanol intoxication right now, but it actually seems like you wrote what I'm reading, Alkemyst!

Quote

Alkemyst wrote:
The petition is total crap.

Its not about saving AmigaOS.
How could all of us not buying Aone/Aos4 save amigaOS.
That would kill it out right.


If you really mean what you said, it seems like you haven't understood that AmigaOS will run on third party hardware, the compulsory licensing/bundling/dongling, and the objections against this and the petition you're talking about.

Being allowed to BUY AMIGAOS is one fundamental part of the petition. BUY IT, get it? Without being restricted to certain vendors for the hardware, and hope for licensees to appear to ever see the OS on more hardware and even if that happened still only being allowed to buy the newly licensed hardware from this highly hypothetical licensee.

NOT maximising sales of AmigaOS, NOT making every effort to have it run on as much hardware as possible without extra, artificially constructed obstacles, and being dependent on the existance and licensees' sales of licensed hardware mainly attracts a subset of the pitiful current Amiga "market" is what makes a high risk for the ultimate death of AmigaOS, IMO.

Quote

Eyetech will continue with the Linux version of the mobo.


There's no need or desire for a damn "special" perverted version (dongled, it's the one and only difference) of a motherboard for AmigaOS users. Why in heaven's name should there be an "any OS" and an "AmigaOS" version/distributor of one motherboard to begin with? Isn't the PPC market already tiny, slowly developing and expensive as it is?

Quote

This petition is like a terrorist out fit. Do it My way or ill kill you off.


Your logic and frames of reference are astonishing...
Exactly how does a bunch of consumers telling a company that they'd like the OPTION to actually BUY their product without limitations regarding ANOTHER product that has nothing to do with the company in question equal a "terrorist outfit"? Are all consumers who don't buy any particular product "terrorists"? I suppose you equal market research with terrorism too? After all, some companies adapt their development, products, sales and marketing to consumer demand in order to make an attractive product and maximise sales.

Quote

This petition will not change the plans of Amiga.inc,Hyperion,Eyetech.
All it could do is change the plans of the users to not buy anything & the end result is ITS ALL OVER FOR AMIGAOS.


Oh yeah, it'd be the fault of the messengers and the protestors, not the people (AI/Eyetech) who wrote the message that's being forwarded and protested against. If everyone just shut up and clenched their fists in their pockets and grinned like idiots at each other, praising the absolute technical and business genius in restricting a small OS dependent on third party hardware to only ever run on and be sold with licensed perversions of this hardware from licensed vendors, then I'm sure AmigaOS would sell like mad. As we all know, all computer savvy consumers are nutjobs who will pay anything for anything with a licensed boingball on it. :-P
[color=0000FF]Maybe it\\\'s still possible to [/color]save AmigaOS [color=0000FF][/size][/color]  :rtfm:......
 

Offline Damion

Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #72 on: January 11, 2003, 03:52:59 AM »
Come on Alkemyst, it's not the 'petition' that's
hurting anything, it's A - Inc's policies that
upset these people enough for there to be a
petition in the first place. There wouldn't be a
petition otherwise. And if this is really about
you believing in the principle of a dongle (I'm
not saying you said this, just inferring) or a
license deal, would you be one of the first to
head up the charge for a software dongle,
if there wasn't one?
 

Offline Damion

Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #73 on: January 11, 2003, 04:06:31 AM »
well here it is....I'm no Picasso - but I think it
does exhibit a certain 'frenchness' or something.
 

Offline Seehund

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Re: Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!
« Reply #74 from previous page: January 11, 2003, 04:41:42 AM »
Quote

Korodny wrote:

Can you imagine Ben Hermans facial expression if you would have asked him 15 months ago to develop OS4 as a "secondary" OS for Apple and Pegasos customers? I can.


I'm not sure. The classic "dollar-signs in the eyes" expression? ;)

Quote

Hyperion's most important condition was that somebody provides a dedicated hardware platform for their OS.


Ah, but there is no dedicated hardware platform for AmigaOS. The Teron boards are not dedicated to any OS. A mobo will run any OS that's compatible with it. For the Teron boards that has predominantly been Linux.

The distribution of some of the Teron boards, and the distributor of those is artificially dedicated to AmigaOS, and there can be no alternatives. That's what's so grotesque.

Quote

Escena had left a few months earlier and the Pegasos runs MOS. Eyetech was the only candidate left, and as they don't have the neccessary engineering skills or the money to fund an external development team, they had to adopt an existing design - the TeronCX/PX.


No, Eyetech has never been a sole alternative since the Escena A1-1200/4000 projects failed. They're "just" another computer shop and distributor. The Teron boards have never been dependent on Eyetech. The more distributors the merrier though. The current dependency on Eyetech is an artificial invention, which has arisen from a licensing deal.

Quote

Despite the fact that they're using a finished motherboard design, Eyetech have pumped serious amounts of money into the A1-G3/XE. But now other companies (Terrasoft) will be selling the very same motherboards (this was planned from the beginning) at a lower price, as they don't have to pay licensing fees to Amiga Inc. Would you buy an Eyetech AmigaOne if you could get the same motherboard from Terrasoft - at a lower price? I know I wouldn't.


Precisely. There's no reason to why a user of AmigaOS should be treated as a retard compared to if he was running e.g. Linux. If a customer prefers one vendor (for whatever reason; price, support, geographic proximity, ugliness of the logo, whatever) over another for the EXACT SAME product, he should naturally be allowed to choose that vendor for his purchase. This is healthy and desperately needed competition.

Whatever money one distributor has pumped into the sales of somebody else's product is irrelevant to the end-customers. We're not here to play charity. AmigaOS can't be dependent on that people should be prepared to pay extra for one third-party hardware distributors' "investments" (and even the Escena failure!). If a customer feels that "this distributor has payed more money for selling the same board" (which is odd...) would be relevant to his selection of vendor, then fine, let him have the OPTION to buy from there.

By the way, even before Terra Soft became a Mai VAR/distributor (which of course has been anticipated since the first hints that they were testing YDL on the boards), Mai sold the boards themselves, cheaper than Eyetech. I don't know what Inguard charges for their complete Teron systems.

Quote

The licensing scheme (amongst other things) protects Eyetech's investments into the AmigaOne. Without such a protection, Eyetech wouldn't have started the project at all (IMHO). Without the A1, there wouldn't be OS4.


Nonsense. The very existence and the development and sales of Teron boards have never been dependent on Eyetech. That's a ludicrous notion. If anything, OS4 has been dependent on Mai. The invented dependency on Eyetech (and all those other eagerly waiting hypothetical licensees... ;)) is a business construction - and it's totally unnecessary, IMO.

As for the licensing scheme protecting Eyetech's investments in Teron boards, whatever those investments might be... I can only say that it's highly unfortunate and sad that AmigaOS, its possible hardware base, marketshare, commercial potential and customers are to suffer and pay for the costs of a third party hardware distributor. If a distributor has invested money it is to be recovered by sales of the product he's distributing. If he can't compete with other dstributors, tough luck! Then customers of ANOTHER product - AmigaOS - should be allowed to turn elsewhere for their hardware neds.
[color=0000FF]Maybe it\\\'s still possible to [/color]save AmigaOS [color=0000FF][/size][/color]  :rtfm:......