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Author Topic: Will Amiga ever live again?  (Read 14947 times)

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Offline odin

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #59 from previous page: June 26, 2004, 01:55:50 PM »
Quote

Hammer wrote:
The standard 'AGA'(e.g. A1200/A4000) doesn’t include such a chip i.e. only in CD32 console and a rare A1200<>CD32 add-on kit.

Eh? Add-on kit? Elaborate?

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2004, 02:06:54 PM »
Quote
This is a really good point. When you think about it, it's a good thing that Commodore went belly-up when it did


Actually Commodore use and influence on Windows NT - if the Amiga guys had anything to do with it at all - could have been the best thing to happen to Windows and Amiga.

Firstly Commodore were deeply interested in the PA-RISC
line of processors which were at the time (and still are in some respects) the dog's bollocks. We would have had what we now know as the PowerPC market on a different processor.

Secondly they would probably not have moved across if they could not sell the system as a real upgrade path - back then if you bought a Mac, you stayed with Mac (and there are Mac houses still around now that have been strictly Apple-only since the days of the Apple II). Therefore probably all the *GOOD* stuff that we see in XP (besides the bad dress sense, slight weight problem, and occasional bad breath :) would have been in NT much sooner. A more Amiga-like world.. on a PA-RISC Windows box.
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2004, 03:21:41 PM »
Does anyone actually ever stand up for Commodore?

I think they were a fantastic company, they diversified and made some
fantastic business machines, multimedia computers and games consoles.

As for AGA, we're talking not just about the graphics here but the
sound and the drive controllers.

To me AGA has not been beaten to this day as the finest chipset ever
made.

Yeah, yeah bring on the ATi Radeon X800 jokes etc. etc. but back in
1992 when the Amiga 1200 came out - AGA blew even the NeoGeo out of
the water and what games console even today can you print from,
program etc.

The world desperately needs a Peoples Computer to be sold in a little
colourful box like the Deluxe Paint, Oscar, Wordworth style combos of
the early 90's.

So what if Mehdi Ali made some mistakes, every one of those people is
responsible for what we have today and I'm indebited to them. The best
things don't last forever - "The brightest flame burns quickest".
Particularly if you wonder if Microsoft has been getting governmment
contracts and subsidies.

What Amiga Inc. need to do now is take a PowerPoint(Scala/Holywood)
presentation to Samsung and get a multi-million commision to build
Samsung AmigaOne.
 

Offline HopperJF

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2004, 03:45:40 PM »
You mean Eyetech.
Amiga Inc. have nothing to do with hardware any more by the looks of things.
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Offline bhoggett

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2004, 03:51:21 PM »
One of the reasons why Amiga will never be anything again is the users. More precisely, the inability of a number of users to evolve their ideas past what they were 15 years ago.

It's like listening to some old codger who tells everyone how things were much better back in the days of oil lamps, candles and goose-quill pens, just because he could get the finest smelling oil and the best candles and kept the fattest geese back then, and he's never seen anyone get better ones since.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2004, 04:04:32 PM »
I don't think the users are to blame for what happens in the corporate
world. We have no effect on the money in the accounts of businessmen.

The Amiga Community is not short of ideads though...

I prefer to use a different analogy: a gold prospector from the
Klondike reminiscing about the good old days when there was gold in
them thar hills.

All that needs to be done is for some brave soul in the management of
Amiga Inc. to sell (at a profit) the copyrights, patents etc. to a
large corporation with good distribution outlets.

And I don't mean Eyetech who are just a small repair shop in England,
I'm thinking some of the original bidders from the original Escom deal
- Samsung!

Why not even Motorolla? HELLO MOTO! Ariba Amiga!
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2004, 06:14:20 PM »
@Hyperspeed wrote:

Quote
I prefer to use a different analogy: a gold prospector from the Klondike reminiscing about the good old days when there was gold in them thar hills.


Not really, because gold doesn't devalue as technology advances. The Amiga did. What might have been cool 12-15 years ago is most certainly not cool now. Not the technology and not the ideas.

Quote
All that needs to be done is for some brave soul in the management of Amiga Inc. to sell (at a profit) the copyrights, patents etc. to a large corporation with good distribution outlets.


And why would any company in such a position want to buy all that junk? You can't sell something that has no value.

Quote
And I don't mean Eyetech who are just a small repair shop in England, I'm thinking some of the original bidders from the original Escom deal - Samsung!


What would Samsung want with it? The Escom deal was ten years ago. Why would Samsung want to buy technology that might have been of some interest then but has not advanced at all since then?

Quote
Why not even Motorolla? HELLO MOTO! Ariba Amiga!


Same problem as above. You can't sell that which no one wants.

It's time everyone in the Amiga scene, users as well as developers, accept that Amigas are no longer in the Premier League of computing, and that it is highly unlikely it will ever return there. The rest of the industry moves at amazing speeds these days, and the Amiga scene is just too small and primitive to be able to keep up, never mind regain a leading position.

Despite recent developments in the AmigaOne, Pegasos etc, Amigas are still falling further behind the rest of the industry.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline MarkTime

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2004, 06:29:07 PM »
Quote
rest of the industry moves at amazing speeds these days, and the Amiga scene is just too small and primitive to be able to keep up, never mind regain a leading position.


It's not hard to be ahead of the pack, and provide unique value at the edges.

It's not that Microsoft or even Mac, for that matter, could be the leader in say 'metadata services'...to make up one area...

but they won't because they are a generic vendor, they have to make carefully weighted decisions about how to advance, and yet, not confuse or upset their very conservative target audience, who doesn't really want radical changes.

The point being....while being small is a disadvantage, it also has an advantage of sorts.

The key to amiga's success is to realize where it excels, and where it can only fail, and to concentrate on winning.

In a way, you sense this sort of pragmatism, when the community leaders talk about concentrating on embedded markets, and kiosks, etc.

However....I'll believe that when I see it.  What the Amiga market, does have, is demonstrable market demand for a desktop solution in a kind of hobbyist, cult market.  If they cannot capitalize on that natural market (and so far they have not)...then I question whether they can capitalize on any market, especially the markets they say they are going after, which are much more competitive than our little cult sphere.

What most people here want, is not a product that is in every way superior to mac, windows, linux, but just a product that has enough unique value, that our positions have some justification and that the amiga platform is a contribution and relevant to modern computing.

Many people here have the talent to take the amiga there, to concentrate on a specialized area and make it applicable.

but I do share your pessimism in once aspect: that success isn't actually going to happen.
 

Offline HopperJF

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2004, 06:34:24 PM »
Quote

bhoggett wrote:
@Hyperspeed wrote:


What would Samsung want with it? The Escom deal was ten years ago. Why would Samsung want to buy technology that might have been of some interest then but has not advanced at all since then?

 


AmigaOne?  :-)
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Offline Madgun68

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2004, 06:48:03 PM »
Quote
However....I'll believe that when I see it. What the Amiga market, does have, is demonstrable market demand for a desktop solution in a kind of hobbyist, cult market. If they cannot capitalize on that natural market (and so far they have not)...then I question whether they can capitalize on any market, especially the markets they say they are going after, which are much more competitive than our little cult sphere.
I think it's possible, but not likely. There are niche markets that the Amiga (and like) could supply to, but the tools needed for those markets don't exist and judging the way our community is heading, we never will. Unlike this community, most users need a computer that can meet a minimal standard. We don't meet that standard.

One example that could be capitalized on are the people out there who don't feel safe using a Microsoft based system, but at the same time don't/won't use linux. You could play on those fears to sell them a system, but the applications these people want (at a bare minimum) don't exist. (A lot of people I know wouldn't touch a system that didn't have an up to date browser or an office solution that could work with MS Office documents.)

If the fragmentation in the community could be minimalised and the talented people we have band together, the void of applications could be bridged. I doubt this will happen though.
......
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2004, 07:00:30 PM »
@HopperJF wrote:
Quote
AmigaOne?  :-)


Yes? What about it? It doesn't contain any Amiga technology or anything else Amiga might be able to sell. As for Eyetech, let me put it this way: if Samsung wanted to release some sub-mediocre overpriced technology, they wouldn't need to go to Eyetech for it.

The reason no one else except Eyetech and Genesi has produced systems like these is not that no one else thought of it or no one else had the technology. It's because everyone else who thought of it realised it would be a waste of time and money.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline mdwh2

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2004, 07:02:57 PM »
Quote

bhoggett wrote:
One of the reasons why Amiga will never be anything again is the users. More precisely, the inability of a number of users to evolve their ideas past what they were 15 years ago.

It's like listening to some old codger who tells everyone how things were much better back in the days of oil lamps, candles and goose-quill pens, just because he could get the finest smelling oil and the best candles and kept the fattest geese back then, and he's never seen anyone get better ones since.

Aren't you stereotyping just a bit from a vocal minority? All platforms have their fanatics (just look at Mac and Linux).

I don't see how these users prevent a market from growing - and if it does grow, the new users won't be like this, so these you speak of will be even more of a minority..
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2004, 07:32:59 PM »
@MarkTime

I hear what you're saying, but again I fail to see what Amigas would have to offer, even if you did target the niche markets.

Looking at embedded systems and kiosks, people are not after a user level OS. What is needed there is a developer friendly OS that gives a high level of stability. In all honesty I fail to see how AmigaOS or MorphOS would be more suitable than an embedded customised Linux solution. At the end of the day users of kiosks etc don't care what OS the system is running on, only that it does what it says on the tin and does it reliably.

Being small might be an advantage if you're forward looking and carry no baggage, but that's not the Amiga scene. The Amiga scene is backward looking and carrying tons of baggage, and Amiga users are some of the most conservative in existence as this thread goes some way to prove. They don't want new and revolutionary. They want to return to what they had ten years ago or more.

Look what's on offer: a couple of pretty low-tech systems backed up with a couple of distinctly immature and non-descript operating systems, none of which offers anything unique or compelling. Buying in costs an arm and a leg, and requires that the user not be too demanding in his requirements (a modern browser or office suite being a bit too much to ask for, not to mention a practically non-existent networking infrastructure).

Except for the fanatical Amigan and the gadget meister, who'd want one and why?
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2004, 07:36:18 PM »
@mdwh2

What new users?
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline mdwh2

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2004, 08:25:46 PM »
@bhoggett

What do you mean? I said "if it does grow", which means new users. If it doesn't, then it doesn't matter. I don't see that a small number of stuck-in-the-past users either represtent everyone here, or somehow have this enormous power over the marketplace.
 

Offline itix

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Re: Will Amiga ever live again?
« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2004, 08:33:12 PM »
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What new users?

I've seen few MorphOS users who never had an Amiga. Can't say there are many but still... :-)
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook