Hamas Leader Killed

[T_Bone]

BADHead wrote:
just more justification for guys like this (Left)

replace "Justification" with "Excuses"

[Karlos]

T_Bone wrote:

BADHead wrote:
just more justification for guys like this (Left)

replace "Justification" with "Excuses"

Replace your present lifestyle with that of an average unemployed, zero-prospects, friends & family murdered by isreali incursions, never seen anything other than conflict in his entire 20-odd year life palestinian.

I don't condone suicide bombings, but I am not naive enough to think people under extreme circumstances can't justify to themselves extreme actions.

[T_Bone]

Karlos wrote:

T_Bone wrote:

BADHead wrote:
just more justification for guys like this (Left)

replace "Justification" with "Excuses"

Replace your present lifestyle with that of an average unemployed, zero-prospects, friends & family murdered by isreali incursions, never seen anything other than conflict in his entire 20-odd year life palestinian.

I don't condone suicide bombings, but I am not naive enough to think people under extreme circumstances can't justify to themselves extreme actions.

And the wheel in the sky keeps on turning...

[Karlos]

Yep :-(

Personally, I can't believe the Israeli government thought that this action was a sensible move to improve their security.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind...

[cecilia]

And the wheel in the sky keeps on turning...

Imagine
John Lennon

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world....

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

[Speelgoedmannetje]

cecilia wrote:
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Hey Mr Music
Sure sounds good to me
I can't refuse it
What have we got to be

Feel like dancing
Dance must be your friend
Feel like dancing
Dance must be your friend

I got my all
In the promised land
But I feel like t'go home
Can you understand

Sun is rising
(Sun is rising)
Moon is rising
(Moon is rising)
Sun is rising
(Sun is rising)
Moon is rising
(Moon is rising)

Rainbow Country
(Sun is rising)
Rainbow Country
(Moon is rising)
Rainbow Country
(Sun is rising)
Rainbow Country
(Moon is rising)

Hey Mr Music
Sure sounds good to me
I can't refuse it
What have we got to be

Feel like dancing
Dance must be your friend
Feel like dancing
Dance must be your friend

I got my all
In the promised land
But I feel like t'go home
Can you understand

Sun is rising
(Feel like dancing)
Moon is rising
(Feel like dancing)
Sun is rising
(Feel like dancing)
Moon is rising
(Feel like dancing)

Rainbow Country..

[AccyD]

BADHead wrote:
just more justification for guys like this (Left)

What are you going to do when your avatar changes??

[AccyD]

Karlos wrote:
Yep :-(

Personally, I can't believe the Israeli government thought that this action was a sensible move to improve their security.

Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind...

You could argue that they fel that in the long-term this would actually solve their problems.

In the short-term yes, more people will feel inclined to join the "cause" but this will soon reduce unless the Hamas leadership can find another charasmatic leader.

This is where Israel are placing their bets, they feel that by taking the pain now, the movement will flounder and diminish in popularity once the focus of that movement has been removed. Therefore improving the situation in the long-term, by weakening the movement.

Whether this proves to be correct or not, only time will tell..........

But who are we to judge? As someone said earlier in this post, extreme situations call for extreme solutions, and we cannot blame Israel for doing this, as much as we cannot the Hamas terrorists - they are doing what they feel is right for their situation.

[KennyR]

AccyD wrote:
You could argue that they fel that in the long-term this would actually solve their problems.

In the short-term yes, more people will feel inclined to join the "cause" but this will soon reduce unless the Hamas leadership can find another charasmatic leader.

I think they've just run out of things to try. As Israel's rulers slide further and further to the extreme right, they keep escalating their methods to solve the terrorist problem. Or rather, to remove it. They're not interested in solving the issue, which is why they're building a wall to keep it out.

Escalating hasn't worked before, I doubt if it will work now. What if this man was limiting the terrorism for political reasons and his replacement is even more belligerent?

No, this will fail, and a lot of innocent Israelis and even more innocent Palestinians will die for it. It will fail because force isn't the answer - unless of course the violence escalates into plain genocide.

[Wolfe]

KennyR wrote:

I think they've just run out of things to try. As Israel's rulers slide further and further to the extreme right, they keep escalating their methods to solve the terrorist problem. Or rather, to remove it. They're not interested in solving the issue, which is why they're building a wall to keep it out.

Escalating hasn't worked before, I doubt if it will work now. What if this man was limiting the terrorism for political reasons and his replacement is even more belligerent?

No, this will fail, and a lot of innocent Israelis and even more innocent Palestinians will die for it. It will fail because force isn't the answer - unless of course the violence escalates into plain genocide.

What is the answer other than striking out at the leaders of terror.  A peaceful solution has been put forward before.  Not perfect, but a place to start.  Didn't work.  Its all or nothing.  That means death and distruction.  

But . . . lets say, the Isreali's and Palastinian's decide tomorrow that there will be peace.  The nations around them will not allow it.  If it wasn't for the surrounding nations (Saddam only one them) there might actually be peace.   The wall, although not the best idea, will at least limit the amount of attacks by homicide bombers.  And maybe in the future make it easier to talk peace and then take them down.  

"There must be security for all or none are secure."  ((Day The earth Stood Still.))

Now, i'm not pro or con for either side.  But, I have my own solution for the problem, but it would be socially unacceptable by most.  Therefor I will keep it to myself.

[KennyR]

Wolfe wrote:
What is the answer other than striking out at the leaders of terror.

These leaders are not leaders because they have charisma or wisdom or any other irreplacable attribute. They're leaders because the Palestinians feel they are being treated to a huge injustice, and will rally around anyone or anything that represents resistance to that feeling of injustice.

Those kind of leaders are replacable. The only solution then when using death as a tool is to go on killing until nobody can oppose you. That's called genocide. And Israel are getting dangerously close to treading that path.

[Wolfe]

KennyR wrote:
That's called genocide. And Israel are getting dangerously close to treading that path.

True.  But, when attacked you strike back, back and forth they go attacking each other.  

The big question is "what is the solution"?  

And thats the problem.  There isn't one that both can agree on and even then will the surrounding nations go along?

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Wolfe wrote:
The big question is "what is the solution"?  

JESUS IS THE SOLUTION!
*cough*

well, in this case, he indeed is, with his passivist attitude. If Israel really wanted this problem being solved, they let the UN do it. That's what the UN is for.

But they do not want to solve this problem,
they just want to punch some more Palastines, and vice versa.

Revenge is addictive

[Wolfe]

Speelgoedmannetje wrote:

Wolfe wrote:
The big question is "what is the solution"?  

JESUS IS THE SOLUTION!
*cough*

well, in this case, he indeed is, with his passivist attitude. If Israel really wanted this problem being solved, they let the UN do it. That's what the UN is for.

But they do not want to solve this problem,
they just want to punch some more Palastines, and vice versa.

Revenge is addictive

The UN?  That bunch of misfits couldn't manage an empty box of cookies.  The UN has no back bone.  Poor leadership.  They run at the first sign of trouble .  Once they put a process in effect they don't watch or control it - look at the oil for food program in Iraq.  Do you think for one minute that the Palistinians or the Ireali's will stop fighting because the UN says so.  He he he!  There will just be more dead people as the UN is in the middle of flying bullets and bombs.

A real sollution is needed.  But there really isn't one.  Until both sides decide that there must be peace, war is all there will be.

Sad, but that is life.

[blobrana]

Hum,
I am sure that every government out there is/are aware that by killing the established leaders of any group/faction/religion that the empty leadership is usually filled by less experienced and more extreme individuals...

I would find it strange that israel isn`t aware of the backlash, and postponement of peace-talks, that this will cause...(of course they are aware, IMHO)...

@Wolfe
Yea, i`m afraid that you are probably correct with the UN observation...On paper it sounds great...But perhaps a European (with less members to argue) `army` would be better? :-o

[Wolfe]

@ blobrana

That would have to be much better than the UN.  But who?  Which countries?  Who pays?  And once you figure all that out then those countries who do it will be attacked by outside forces (terrorists) for being in the middle east as invaders.  

The middle east is a cursed plot of sand.  And all who touch it will suffer its curse.