Be friends! Please!... Amiga and Genesi! I love you both!, but...

[vortexau]

I feel sure that for the present, at least, there can't be that many differences between Mos & AmigaOS4 for software to be written for either, or for both.

Could not Applications, Services, and Games, for BOTH Platforms be marketed on just ONE CD with individual Installers to be able to install just the particular components required for running on either system?

For instance, in the past there have been cases of the ONE MEDIA containing TWO versions of a piece of software: like the game Blasteroids ( 1987 TENGEN. 1989 MIRRORSOFT Ltd.) which was marketed on a 3.5" diskette as DUAL FORMAT for PC & COMPATIBLES/CBM AMIGA.

Surely if THAT could work, a media could contain DUAL FORMAT MOS/AOS4 install versions?  
 :-?

I would sincerely like to see any factual evidence you have of B.McEwens intentions in this regard.

That came out in the closed UGN meeting at the Amiga 2001 show (I believe it was 2001) when McEwen stated emphatically that;

"If someone pisses me off, even once, I will never work with that person.  Ever."  

He said same to me on the phone +/- 6 months of that same time period many times when we were still speaking in regards to the UGN, ADN, and other concepts that I originated.  

Whether you consider that "evidence" or not is irrelevant to me, because I see it happening here.  It is very obvious now to anyone who spoke with McEwen around that same time (the EXACT same time that this issue really started) that the McEwen versus Buck issue boils down to ego versus ego.  Put all the legal {bleep} aside, and you're left with ego, which is my point.

[IonDeluxe]

Well that just leaves mre questions.Nevertheless it is a moot point now as Amiga Inc. seem to be out of the picture now entirely

[rayt]

yeah who cares about amiga inc and genesi? Two small companys who rather spent all their money on ridiculous court cases than to pay their employees. As long as kmos and hyperion dont go bust I dont give a ****... 8-)

[takemehomegrandma]

@ AmiDelf

MorphOS 1.5 and OS4 seems to be released at the same time - when it's
done! ;-) :-D What will OS4 have that MorphOS won't? Why would I want
to use OS4 instead of MorphOS? Why would I want OS4 code in MorphOS,
when MorphOS is doing fine on its own merits?


@ Cyberus and Mikeymike

No, that's a ... ermm, part of a burning barn!

No actually, you are right. I made that avatar a long time ago when I
was a little upset about the arrangers behind AmiGBG's policies and
views (there is only one, true, pure k-k-kommunity). I actually
removed it earlier and replaced it with my "original" xoops avatar.
But when this new xoops engine was launched it seems like it got
switched back somehow. I will change it, but I have not had the time
to make a new one yet ...

[BigBenAussie]

I think the reason the AmigaOS and MorphOS groups cannot get along is because the AmigaOS4 supporters believe that the only way to raise the platform in the public eye, to its previous stature is by the name on the box. I agree.

Calling something a Pegasos doesn't cut it. Its not about Morphos, as such, being a bad OS. This also does not mean that Pegasos is a bad machine, it may even be superior to the Amiga One in some ways.

However, the Amiga One will eventually be released as THE AMIGA even though its done by Eyetech. The OS it will run will be released as AMIGA OS4 even though it was created by Hyperion and owned by KMOS. The companies that created it, are by necessity irrelevant, its the official AMIGA in the title that lends it legitimacy(along with arguably some sort of involvement with Amiga Inc).

Then for the first time since Commodore's demise the Amiga platform may have a chance at public legitimacy as an alternative platform, akin to a Mac.

The Pegasos, through no fault of its own, actually subverts this public legitimacy from happening, and I would imagine there are a lot of people out there that feel the same way. It subverts by drawing developer resources and early customers away from what will ultimately be the root system.

We are grateful for Genesi's interest in maintaining the platform, but its time in the spotlight will shortly be over. Sorry, but that is the way the cookie crumbles. Buck's desperate attempts to obtain the Amiga logo through litigation, to legitimise the platform in some way, will ultimately be to no avail regardless as to whether he is successful or not.

IMHO this whole discussion will 'one day'(wanted to say soon) be rendered irrelevant given what will ultimately be the huge demand that will be generated in the Amiga One. Amiga One units will outnumber the Pegasos so incredibly quickly once it is released that the market will determine the true Amiga successor.

Pegasos is out, and while it has engendered some passion it will never be able to engender the passion that is required to become a mainstream platform. And ultimately that is what we all want.

Pegasos will be relegated to the scrap heap of history like every other go faster board that ever graced a classic Amiga. Its sad for Genesi, having contributed so much.

[Jose]

What about the people that hates them both? 8-)

[cecilia]

IMHO this whole discussion will 'one day'(wanted to say soon) be rendered irrelevant given what will ultimately be the huge demand that will be generated in the Amiga One. Amiga One units will outnumber the Pegasos so incredibly quickly once it is released that the market will determine the true Amiga successor.

not being Criswell, I can't say what the future will be, but I suspect that people will use whatever they have or want.
I mean, even now people are using Amithalon dispite the fact that it's not really being "developed". I still look at the mailing list with it's various users looking for solutions to this or that problem.

People are starting to get interested in AROS, people like me use WinUAE. and still use thier old amigas.

an amiga is anything that FEELS like an amiga. and it turns out that alot of diifferent software and hardware solutions have fallen into that category.

The amiga will never again just be ONE kind of box and one OS.
The versatlity of having amiga on anything I can have is too nice.

the future is more diversity, not less.
this really has little to do with MorphOS vs OS4.

personally, i'd love to see OS4. and AROS, and amiga on cel phones. amiga on everything, actually.

What about the people that hates them both?

Windows users  :lol:

[Targhan]

@BigBen
How nice to see the thread go this way.  If you truely want to see OS4 fail, then, by all means, continue to have that elitist attitude towards MorphOS.

With attitudes of this nature, you succeed in doing nothing but ensuring that developers who may continue projects for both platforms decide not to.  I do not want to sound harsh, but every comment like that I hear (read) makes me want to request for all my contributions to the aminet be pulled.  They make me want to ask other developers to do the same.  They make me not want to pick up a copy of OS4 if given the chance.  

Yes, MorphOS users can be just as guilty of being elitists. "Hyperion didn't know what an Amiga was before 1999," or "Those Name-Bangers are only trying to rip off what was supposed to be the real next-gen Amiga," and other such comments are just as bad.  I think the person who started this thread was trying to help everyone understand that *we are* in this together, like it or not, and we should have some kind of minimal level of acceptance of one another.  Holier than thou attitudes does nothing but hurt both sides.

More flies are drawn with honey than vinegar, and you would do well to remember that.

[KennyR]

BigBenAussie wrote:
MHO this whole discussion will 'one day'(wanted to say soon) be rendered irrelevant given what will ultimately be the huge demand that will be generated in the Amiga One. Amiga One units will outnumber the Pegasos so incredibly quickly once it is released that the market will determine the true Amiga successor.

Not unless they can get cheaper hardware. Preferably cheaper hardware that works properly.

[IonDeluxe]

Preferably cheaper hardware that works properly.  

oooooh, nice flamebait KennyR lol.

I am sure that will happen when Genesi port Morphos to the Amigaone

Here is a thought, now that KMOS now has rights to the OS, do they have the power to develop or have developed, or allow development of Amithlon II?

[Waccoon]

Rayt:  As long as kmos and hyperion dont go bust I dont give a ****...

As long as someone releases something, I don't give a ****.  At least MorphOS is on schedule and rockin'.

Mr U No Hoo:  No, that's a ... ermm, part of a burning barn!

How long have you had that avatar, and how many complaints have you gotten so far?  :-)

BigBenAussie:  However, the Amiga One will eventually be released as THE AMIGA even though its done by Eyetech

What's in a name?  That doesn't change the fact that Amiga has been dead for over a decade and the rest of the industry has moved on and made huge improvements to their OS models.  I'm still fuming over the fact that OS4 won't support a real security model, in the form of accounts.  No real OS should be without that.

I see no point in cloning an obsolete design.  MacOS X really showed us something new: make UNIX look-n-feel like a Mac.  I haven't used MacOS X personally (though I have seen it in action and have seen how slow it is), but it seems like an interesting starting point for a new OS.

Jose:  What about the people that hates them both?

Well put.  I'm not terribly interested in a true Amiga.  I'm looking for a new OS that's a serious alternative to Windows and Amiga-ish.  I've tried 9 different Linux distros so far, and they all drove me nuts.  Be is dead, QNX is too raw, AROS isn't terribly stable, Macs are too damned expensive (among other problems)...

Cecilia:  The amiga will never again just be ONE kind of box and one OS.

A completely obsolete idea, the closed computer.  My brother-in-law works as a programmer for Nokia, and apparently, EVERYTHING in the universe will be programmed in Java in a couple years.  Apparently, nobody uses C++ in that company, anymore.

KennyR:  Not unless they can get cheaper hardware. Preferably cheaper hardware that works properly.

They decided to use proprietary hardware despite their "Amiga Anywhere" initiative.  They decided to build their own hardware despite the fact they know nothing about manufacturing.  They settled on a wimpy, little-known PowerPC chipset when powerful, robust, competitive, and well-tested x86 chipsets were staring them in the face.

Then again, they also decided to sell the hardware years before the OS is ready...

Funny how the A1200 connector in the AmigaOne sounded like such a stupid idea when Amithlon came along, but people still think proprietary hardware bearing the Amiga name will trump any sort of hardware independence.  I've been hoping for a truly architecture independent system ever since I used AMOS.  The future is in run-time systems.  I don't like Java, but it's a good example of which direction things are headed.

IonDeluxe:  Here is a thought, now that KMOS now has rights to the OS, do they have the power to develop or have developed, or allow development of Amithlon II?

Who is KMOS?  Who's the president?  Where's their website?  Who cares?  It's just the same old story of trading hands and no product releases.

[Waccoon]

Why is it every time I post it goes on a new page?  :-)

[AmiDelf]

Hehe

Well, I love my PegasosII and I would also like AOS4, but I feel betrayed.

Betrayed as a user, promised false things, never comming out...

amigaworld.org will be on both sides still, but what sort of positive words can I have about AmigaOS4? Nothing!

Regards,
Michal, www.amigaworld.org

[BigBenAussie]

@Targhan

I am sorry you feel that way over my statement of opinion. Unfortunately, at one point or another we have all been guilty of the elitism in owning an Amiga.

My opinion differs from yours. I don't blame you for your opinion, and I am sure you have some valid arguments, just as I feel I do. However, this whole issue is more emotion based than logical. It depends on your passion.

With attitudes of this nature, you succeed in doing nothing but ensuring that developers who may continue projects for both platforms decide not to.  I do not want to sound harsh, but every comment like that I hear (read) makes me want to request for all my contributions to the aminet be pulled.  They make me want to ask other developers to do the same.  They make me not want to pick up a copy of OS4 if given the chance.  

So, to summarise, you don't want to play any more and want to pack up your toys and go home.

I wonder why you feel that way, except sour grapes. You have made an investment in hardware that will most likely fail to gain the greatest mindshare. That is lamentable, but the way it is. I have not invested anything, so am neutral in that regard. I am coming in fresh and unfettered. You might argue that makes me ignorant, but if I KNOW that I will be a future Amiga One owner then I don't need to know anything else.

If you are a commercial developer for the Amiga system, YOU WILL HAVE TO make the software OS4 compatible because that will be the market. If you don't you will limit your exposure, and that is fine too. Its entirely your choice, but don't get all pissed off at the fact that most people  will choose differently. If I didn't feel that they would choose differently I would already be developing for Morphos, but I'm not am I? You would have every developer under the sun already jumping on Morphos but you don't.

Incidentally, as someone who intends to develop, I would be pleased to support both platforms but its always going to be a port FROM OS4 and it better be easy, because I'm not buying a Pegasos as well as an Amiga One.

Ironically, in this regard, AmigaOS has to survive for Morphos to survive and your investment to be justified because there will ultimately be more developers for that than for Morphos alone.

And you know, I think this is the crux of the entire argument at large. The Pegasos owners/developers want to justify their investment by continuing to develop for it. There is nothing wrong with that as far as they are concerned. They are actually more threatened by OS4 and the Amiga One than the OS4 and Amiga One supporters are concerned about Pegasos and Morphos. That is because they own one already.

The continuation of each of the different platforms will ultimately result in a dilution of their platform, and IMHO this is VERY bad. I think the whole point of the Amiga is that it is Amiga compatible and if Morphos does not maintain compatability with the official Amiga Operating System, then why would you stick with Morphos except if you already own one. In that case I guess future AmigaOS4 owners should not be concerned by what appears to be pot shots by the peg community.

I believe, and maybe its just my opinion, and it is a forum afterall where people are free to present their opinion, but
"There can only be One".

And we all know what that is going to be.
Developing for Morphos will one day be considered as laborious as maintaining legacy code.

I'm sorry if it makes you angry but don't shoot the messenger. The Amiga One is our only hope at becoming a mainstream platform again. If that fails, then Morphos keeps its mantle and you will then be happy at the failure of the Amiga One and the ressurection of the Amiga to the mainstream. Both will linger in no-mans land for good.

With my statements I would think I am actually compelling more developers to develop for AmigaOS than would be lost by Morphos developers refraining their support, but that was not the purpose of my post. I am just picking what seems to me to be the obvious winning platform as far as I am concerned.

Maybe the Pegasos will remain around forever, maybe not, but if you can't see that the greatest hope for the Amiga community at large is the Amiga One then I think you've got rocks in your head. As a Pegasos owner you need it to succeed as well as it will only boost the software that will be available on your system too.

[KennyR]

Waccoon wrote:
They decided to use proprietary hardware despite their "Amiga Anywhere" initiative. They decided to build their own hardware despite the fact they know nothing about manufacturing. They settled on a wimpy, little-known PowerPC chipset when powerful, robust, competitive, and well-tested x86 chipsets were staring them in the face.

The PPC is not the problem. PPC is the best short-term solution for an NG AmigaOS - full backwards compatibility with 68k on x86 is impossible, as the AROS team will tell you. I'm not interested in an OS that doesn't run at least a little of my Amiga software. I might as well skip to Windows or Linux then.

The problem is a broken northbridge and a broken AC97, which was later removed from newer designs. Unfortunately Articia will cripple the A1 design for years to come, no matter how some people try to deny it.

Don't tell me magical x86 chipsets doesn't suffer from bugs - even mass produced, widely used ones. For instance my PC *still* BSODs every six hours or so due to its buggy VIA VT chipset. And the better chipsets are jealously guarded and developer support is non-existent. Even on linux support is poor and patchy. For a niche system like OS4, support would be impossible.