Wordworth Woes

[spudmiga]

Greetings,

Up until recently Wordworth has been my goto wordprocessor on the Amiga, I started off on version 4SE then went to version 5 which has been running nicely until I recently had to do a system re-install to a new CF card due to it not getting on with my new 4way buffered interface, got 3.1.4.1 installed with no problems however now when I try to re-install Wordworth 5 it gives me an error 'not enough disk space on Work: you need at least 3 MB of free space" - however the partition is 2 GB!!

I tried installing it to the Workbench: partition which is the same size and it installs 

But when I go to run, it goes black screen and gives me the software failure error.
I do have FinalWriter 4 here but I am not so keen, and have many files saved in Wordworth format so would like to get Wordworth working if possible. It mystifies me how it no longer wants to work!

Could it be an issue with the way I have set up the Work: partition?
Anything I can resolve in HD Toolbox or something?

My system is: A1200, OS 3.1.4.1, 4Gb CF (2x 2gb partitions), ACA 1221/64Mb

Any ideas appreciated

Spud 

[TribbleSmasher]

Try installing it as 'expert' and keep the installation protocol as well.

[Matt_H]

There are two issues here: the installation and the crash.

The first problem, the installation complaining about not enough free space, is because the version of Installer on the Wordworth disk is too old. It can't properly detect the amount of free space above a certain amount, so the number overflows and wraps around to a negative number. It can be overcome by changing the default tool on the install icon to a newer version of Installer (at least v43, see Aminet). Either point it to a newer version on your hard drive or replace the Installer on the Wordworth disk (a copy of the disk, of course). The other options are to install to a smaller partition, as you did, or to fill up a partition to the point where there's less free space.

The second problem, the crash, will be trickier to diagnose. As TribbleSmasher suggests, always install in Expert mode so you can see exactly what the installer is doing. Not all install scripts respect this, however, and will copy/replace files without your intervention. I seem to recall that the Wordworth install script does just that, and replaces a number of system files with versions from OS2.1 or 3.0. Conflict between those old files and the newer OS could be causing the crash. Examine the Wordworth disk(s) to see what system files are on it, then check your SYS: partition to see if those files got copied there. If they did, replace them with the newer versions from the 3.1.4(.1) disks.

Also, use SnoopDos to monitor what files are being called. Then you should be able to see exactly at which point the system is crashing (and which file is responsible).

One other thing, make sure you're not hitting the infamous MaxTransfer problem. I think that was finally solved in 3.1.4, but I'm not certain. Check the MaxTransfer setting in HDToolbox to be sure.

[TribbleSmasher]

Of course WW5 is quite old. If you manage to get the WW7 disks, upgrade.

[spudmiga]

The first problem, the installation complaining about not enough free space, is because the version of Installer on the Wordworth disk is too old. It can't properly detect the amount of free space above a certain amount, so the number overflows and wraps around to a negative number. It can be overcome by changing the default tool on the install icon to a newer version of Installer (at least v43, see Aminet).

Hi Matt thank you for the reply.
I would have thought the installer on my 3.1.4.1 system would be newer than the 1996 version on Aminet, no?
I have copied the 1st install disk as suggested and copied the installer from my 3.1.4.1 onto it and this gets around the installation problem so half way there!

I seem to recall that the Wordworth install script does just that, and replaces a number of system files with versions from OS2.1 or 3.0. Conflict between those old files and the newer OS could be causing the crash. Examine the Wordworth disk(s) to see what system files are on it, then check your SYS: partition to see if those files got copied there. If they did, replace them with the newer versions from the 3.1.4(.1) disks.

Also, use SnoopDos to monitor what files are being called. Then you should be able to see exactly at which point the system is crashing (and which file is responsible).

Ok so after running SnoopDOS it seems to crash after loading retina.library

One other thing, make sure you're not hitting the infamous MaxTransfer problem. I think that was finally solved in 3.1.4, but I'm not certain. Check the MaxTransfer setting in HDToolbox to be sure.

Can you remind me where I find this again, I have opened HDToolbox and can only see options to repartition or verify the drive and I don't want to accidentally destroy my partition

Thanks again,
Spud 

[spudmiga]

Of course WW5 is quite old. If you manage to get the WW7 disks, upgrade.

Have you tried searching for these? They are nigh on impossible to find legitimately.
Having said that, I did source a cracked copy (yuck) and tried this out for testing purposes and had the same installation problem.

[Matt_H]

Hi Matt thank you for the reply.
I would have thought the installer on my 3.1.4.1 system would be newer than the 1996 version on Aminet, no?
I have copied the 1st install disk as suggested and pointed the default tool to Workbench:System/Installer but I get an error "Unable to compile script. ERROR: Symbol name not valid here on line 1".

Yes, the version of Installer from 3.1.4.1 will definitely be newer. It seems to be too new, apparently, such that it can't parse the old Wordworth script. (This probably means that the Wordworth script is badly written and the newer Installer has more strict error trapping.) Try v43. If that also fails you'll have to go with the fill-up-partition-first route or try installing manually.

Can you remind me where I find this again, I have opened HDToolbox and can only see options to repartition or verify the drive and I don't want to accidentally destroy my partition

Thanks again,
Spud 

HDToolbox->Partition Drive->Advanced Options->Change Filesystem. I don't recall what the correct settings for MaxTransfer are, but if you prepped the drive with 3.1.4 I think the defaults will be okay (maybe?). The 3.1.4 docs might have the correct settings listed... can't recall. But it should be easy to find with a search engine.

[spudmiga]

Hi Matt

Since the last reply I have got around the installer problem by copying my 3.1.4.1 installer to a backup floppy, this seems to have done the trick and allowed me to install to Work:
I have set the Maxtransfer to the recommended However I am still getting the crashes, if I set 0x1FE00 recommended setting

If I try it Picasso=FALSE it freezes, if I set Picasso=TRUE it gets to the main screen then black screen/software failure
SnoopDOS says it loads retina.library just before the crash, I am not sure what this does - it seems to be one of Wordworth's own libs as it is not in my system libs drawer.

 

[Matt_H]

2 things:

I'm looking at my own WW5 disks now and realize why changing the default tool of the install icon failed. For some reason Digita decided not to invoke the installer directly. The install icon actually runs a shell script that invokes the installer. So copying the 3.1.4.1 Installer to the disk was the right move.

You might consider installing again now that your MaxTransfer is fixed, but I suspect now that it's very, very unlikely to have been the problem.

retina.library, I believe, is part of the ancient pre-P96, pre-CGX software for the Retina RTG board. My guess is that WW is trying to open it because of the PICASSO tooltype. I would have thought that setting it to PICASSO=False would have prevented WW from trying to load it, but perhaps not. Try commenting it out entirely (enclose it in parentheses) and see what happens.

Make sure to check your system files (particularly Libs: ) to make sure the versions from 3.1.4.1 are still there.

Can you post your SnoopDos output? Mount RAD: and direct the output to a file there to preserve it after the crash.

[spudmiga]

Hi Matt,

Well I checked the libraries all seemed in order except for a 1996 version of nonvolatile.library so I replaced with the 2018 os 3.1.4 version from disk
Tried Wordworth it crashed again so I restarted, mounted RAD: and set SnoopDOS to log to RAM_0: and attempt to load the program
It crashes as expected but upon reboot it comes up with an AmigaDOS screen that does not recognise any commands. So I powered off for 30 seconds to get back into the system obviously RAD is gone now... I have tried saving a log to my HD partition but it does not seem to save. It sure is mysterious....

Even more mysterious is since doing this... it has inexplicably started working!?!?!?!

Spud

[TribbleSmasher]

After the reboot you need to use the early boot menu to select your normal boot drive as the rad: normally has a higher priority. Or make rad: nonbootable. Without any contents beside the logfile it is useless of course.


 

[spudmiga]

Well I thought I had it fixed, it began to work. Switch machine off, power on, it still works.

I come back to my machine 2 hours later and try.. it crashes again. The SnoopDOS log file is empty but I did manage to capture this with my camera before it crashed.
Not sure if it helps shed any light on the issue?

[spudmiga]

I have tried installing again after 'fixing' the maxtransfer problem and this time told the installer to put thewordworth5 libs into their own directory.
One interesting message that appeared when doing this was I am using an old version of post.library ?? I am not sure what this does.. anyhoo, I installed it the newer version as recommended (its going to a separate directory from my system libs anyway) and I got to the beginning of the program, got some strange graphics distortion and the system reset into a software failure as is the norm!!

I may have to start thinking about another word processor sadly, I really do not want the hassle of re-installing my entire system when there is a very real chance this will not solve the issue...

Spud 

[Matt_H]

post.library is related to PostScript. WW might use it for PostScript/Type1 font support, or maybe PostScript printer or print-to-file support.

Can you try again to share the SnoopDos output? Even if you can't get the log file, expand the SnoopDos window to maximum size before launching WW/taking a photo. If you can get a grab of the icon tooltypes as well, that might be helpful.

And speaking of logs, do you have the install_log_file from the installation?

WW is generally pretty stable. I'm confident you'll be able to get it working, if not v5 then maybe v6 or v7.

[spudmiga]

I am wondering would using Native.lha from Aminet have anything to do with this, I use this in replacement of FBlit as per Hyperion's recommendations for using OS 3.1.4

This is all I could capture full screen before crash, the trouble is Wordworth pops up in front of SnoopDOS so I am having to click back on SnoopDOS before it crashes.. once again empty log file